Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only.

Moderator: Board Staff

ZQFMGB
Adam
Posts: 66
Joined: May 31, 2018
Location: On a giant blue ball !
Gender: Male

Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ZQFMGB » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:56 pm

Yeah, it makes more sense. Still, I find it hard to believe that Yui, generally described as a nice person and a loving mother, let HIP occur... okay, she did so that Shinji could undo it, but it's really a cold reasoning...
well, I guess being stuck in a giant cyborg's core and used as a killing machine can damage your mind to some degree. That'd also explain why she acted like some kind of carnivorous ape when in Berserk mode and why she thought leaving her shell-shocked son on a scorched planet was a good idea.
Nerv is recruiting new employees ! Check the list below to see what are the required competences for each job !

Commander : being as unexpressive as possible and doing a perfect "Gendo pose".
Vice Commander : looking constipated.
Operations director : shouting orders which have 95% chances of failing.
Chief scientist : looking amazed and puzzled when something goes wrong with an Eva.
Bridge operator : saying what's going wrong with an Eva and which emergency procedure isn't working.
Therapist : thera what ?

StrokeMeGoat
Lilith
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 131
Joined: Jan 30, 2016
Location: Indiana
Gender: Male

Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby StrokeMeGoat » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:04 am

View Original PostZQFMGB wrote:Yeah, it makes more sense. Still, I find it hard to believe that Yui, generally described as a nice person and a loving mother, let HIP occur... okay, she did so that Shinji could undo it, but it's really a cold reasoning...

I honestly think that, given the situation in EOE and what all SEELE has at their disposal with the MP Evas and psuedo-spears, HIP was almost an inevitability. Hell, even Gendo was determined on causing it himself a well, even if it was through the forbidden union of Adam and Lilith as opposed to the MP Evas.

If you think through the most likely scenarios and how they'd all potentially play out if trying to avoid HIP altogether was Yui's chosen course of action to prevent the extinction of humanity (or at least human individuality... which is kind of a fundamental aspect of what it is to actually be "human"--a merged collective of all human souls would necessarily have to be considered something different than humans as we know, define, and conceptualize them), you quickly start to realize that HIP still having potential for being initiated or the otherwise extinction of humanity as a species through some other means is too great of a risk to count on being able to avoid.

I spoilered here my understanding of the events during EoE, which are pertinent to fully understanding the threats and why Yui's plan was really the safest and most effective to come up with, but the contents are long enough that it makes my post and my points so unorganized, cluttered, and potentially confusing that it needs hidden:
SPOILER: Show
As I understand the events of the End of Evangelion and specifically Third Impact, along with Human Instrumentality, is that SEELE's plan at the start of ep. 25' is to simply initiate Third Impact itself because they believe HIP to be otherwise impossible for them to accomplish given the Spear of Longinus still remaining in Lunar Orbit/on the moon without the time to fund and execute a space mission to recover it given they know Gendo possesses Adam's embryo and has unrestricted to Lilith in Terminal Dogma. So, fearing Gendo's rather predictable choice of action going forward (namely, fusing himself with Adam and Lilith to become a god of unprecedented power that easily eclipses even that of the new "God" Unit-01 after it ingested and came to possess an S2 engine with a human soul in its core, giving it the power to initiate an impact all on its own with the Spear of Longinus and maybe even without it) and trying to cut him off before he gets the chance, they show they are willing to forego their originally intended plan of initiating HIP and to simply settle for the indiscriminate death of everybody.

Their dialog with Gendo is what leads me to believe this. They say that without both Lilith and the original Spear, their plans for HIP will go unrealized. Continuing on, they tell Gendo that they will wipe out original sin (or something similar to that) via the indiscriminate death of all humankind, stating that they themselves do not intend to use Unit-01 as a personal Ark to ride out the destruction of humanity after Third Impact is initiating. Gendo responds stating that death creates nothing. If they were stating then that they were still going through with HIP, then Gendos answer is rather curious considering that there's a fair bit of nuance between the total and indiscriminate death of all and the whole of humanity being merged into a single consummate being whose imperfections fill and complement one another. This isn't even mentioning the fact the humans complementing and merging together like that would mean that, even if Yui's soul were included in that, the loss of individuality would prevent by it's very nature the two of them ever reuniting like he states several times he wishes and plans to do.

That said, Gendo's plan to merge with Adam and Lilith to become a God means that either through the powers newly afforded to him he could either merge Unit-01 with himself or otherwise extract and absorb Yui's soul out of it, or if that isn't in the realm of possibility, then Yui/Unit-01+the S2 engine existing as a kind of God themselves would make it possible for them to both exist together as immortal God's for all eternity. However, because the original Spear returned to Unit-01 as the MP Evas were in the process of causing an Anti-AT Field via the synchronized resonating of their AT Fields and Unit-01s that would cause Third Impact and the annihilation of man, they exclaim "at least, our plans will be realized! The Spear has returned to us, and with it humanity will be die and be reborn as one (through HIP)". Obviously I'm paraphrasing there, but their excited reaction to the Spears return and them mentioning that their original plan will be realized really can only mean that previous to the Spear's return, HIP wasn't capable of happening.

It's unclear if HIP initiated via the MP Evas, the Spear, and Unit-01 would actually allow for Shinji (or even presumably Yui) the choice of rejecting it and the merged collective being of humanity that would result from HIP's initiation that way. This is where the importance of Rei's rejection of Gendo and his plan for 3I/HIP and her choice to fuse with Adam and Lilith and become a new God becomes important and maybe even essential for allowing Shinji the choice of accepting or rejecting HIP. The only reason Shinji would appear to have any choice at all is because GNR Rei actually offers him one after collecting everybody's souls before they could be by the new Tree of Life formed from the fusion of the Spear of Longinus and Unit-01+S2 engine. Now, it's entirely possible that Shinji could've rejected HIP before it truly initiated after becoming part of the Tree of LIfe, but I think it's highly doubtful he could ever reverse his decision after making it. As we see in the movie, he first chooses HIP and the world it offers where all human souls merge and complement each other, but he almost immediately regrets the decision. The likely reason for his having a choice at all is because GNR takes over the process of instrumentality and because of the nature of her existence as an all-powerful God, she guides Shinji and humanity through it, and cares to stick around long enough to let Shinji reverse what happened upon regretting it.


So, knowing she's privy to SEELE's plans (HIP) and even their potential backup plan if the original became impossible (Third Impact and the wholesale extinction of mankind), along with foreseeing Gendo's actions to counter them and his motivation to reunite with her if she stuck with her own plan to remain within Unit-01, and taking into account the angels themselves and the potential threat they pose humanity via the initiation of 3I themselves... whether or not the NGE 2 Hidden Case Files or whatever they're called accurately represent what would happen if an angel made contact with either Adam or Lilith or not. That is to say, for all of humanity and the angels to be reborn as angels with the FoL themselves, or, if not, the extinction of mankind if nothing else. With all their combined threats, the greatest hope humanity likely had (and by saying that I'm saying I fully agree with her assessment and predictions regarding fighting the Angels of and SEELE+Gendo) was for her to set things up in a way that ensured human individuality and humanity itself could be reborn after the initiation of HIP on her own specific terms... as she was the only one whose wish it was for humanity to continue surviving as individual people once the fight with the Angels was all said and done.

You have to take into consideration SEELE has almost unlimited resources when it comes to wealth and both political power and manpower. This necessitated her remaining within the Eva because how they wanted to use Lilith and Unit-01 in their very early beginning plan before the arrival of the first Angel or the birth of Rei and the implantation of Lilith's soul within her physical body. As Lilith originally was, she had no real Ego of her own... or the very least her lack of a human experience through Rei in no way means she is necessarily inclined to desire the survival of humanity as they are prior to 3I. Ignoring that, even still, her (correct) prediction that Gendo would clone her and place Lilith's soul within her body served as a necessary safety measure to prevent the initiation of HIP prior to Rei returning to and fusing with Lilith to restore her soul within her original body. She was surely aware of how Gendo would react and precede after her absorption in Unit-01's core as well, including the Rei+Lilith's soul bit, to try and reunite with her by merging himself with Rei and Adam's embryo and then fusing with Adam. As a matter of fact, she had to have been counting on it, because otherwise GNR couldn't gave guided Shinji through HIP or given him the option to undo it.

DarkBluePhoenix
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 1781
Joined: Aug 01, 2016
Location: Somewhere between the light in my heart and the darkness in my soul
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:07 pm

^ Still, even though her intentions are good, Yui is still paying god by forcing things to go her way. In how you explained it, she thinks her way of doing thinks is best. She literally has control of the EVA, that's been evident since Episode 1. She could have made the difference in avoiding Instrumentality entirely, but chose to try and shape the word the way she thought best.
Avatar - Heero Yuy, pilot of Wing Gundam Zero. If you want to read my NGE fanfic go to my profile here - DarkBluePhoenix on FanFiction.net or DarkBluePhoenix on AO3

Voted in college to be Most likely to Take Over the World, how to do that however, will require at least Four Evangelions. Thanks for the idea Misato-san!
"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Said at the beginning of the nuclear age by J. Robert Oppenheimer.
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Words of Wisdom from German Philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.

ZQFMGB
Adam
Posts: 66
Joined: May 31, 2018
Location: On a giant blue ball !
Gender: Male

Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ZQFMGB » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:18 am

I don't think Yui has full control of the Eva pre-19. If she had, she'll just have stomped on all the Angels instead of waiting for Shinji to be beaten up. My headcanon is that a soul can only take control of the Eva if the pilot is in a weakened state.
And even though she has full control during EoE, rushing against the MPEs wouldn't have been the best idea IMO. It's what Asuka did, and it didn't end well. So yeah, I don't like what Yui did, but maybe she had no choice.
Nerv is recruiting new employees ! Check the list below to see what are the required competences for each job !

Commander : being as unexpressive as possible and doing a perfect "Gendo pose".
Vice Commander : looking constipated.
Operations director : shouting orders which have 95% chances of failing.
Chief scientist : looking amazed and puzzled when something goes wrong with an Eva.
Bridge operator : saying what's going wrong with an Eva and which emergency procedure isn't working.
Therapist : thera what ?

Reichu
Space-Time Teratoma
Space-Time Teratoma
Posts: 23058
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Lost in Bat Country
Gender: Female
Contact:

Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:19 am

View Original PostZQFMGB wrote:I don't think Yui has full control of the Eva pre-19. If she had, she'll just have stomped on all the Angels instead of waiting for Shinji to be beaten up.

There's no change after episode 19 in this regard. Armisael is able to bio-fuse with Eva-01 without any resistance from Yui.

Episode 01 establishes with the falling lights that Yui is capable of reacting to the outside world in real time -- she just, for whatever reason, normally doesn't. The "real" explanation for this, of course, is that Eva-01's moments are reserved for when they're most dramatically appropriate. The in-story explanation could be to the effect that Yui doesn't want to overplay her hand. Until the very end, when she can go all out, it's better to act as conservatively as possible. As for a guess to the "why", core reconfiguration is a possibility mentioned in episode 24. The fact that it's not done willy-nilly might mean that it's not a simple or reliable procedure, but if Yui didn't give Nerv even the illusion of being able to control her, Seele might just be willing to take that risk.

DarkBluePhoenix
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 1781
Joined: Aug 01, 2016
Location: Somewhere between the light in my heart and the darkness in my soul
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:46 pm

Well, that makes a fair amount of sense, she's hiding until the moment, which she can observe, where she can reasonably assume control and not look like she's always in control. Though, would this not have applied to Bardiel? I mean, it is no less brutal an attack than Zeruel's or Sachiel's, it would have been a very opportune moment for her to use her control to override the Dummy Plug.
Avatar - Heero Yuy, pilot of Wing Gundam Zero. If you want to read my NGE fanfic go to my profile here - DarkBluePhoenix on FanFiction.net or DarkBluePhoenix on AO3

Voted in college to be Most likely to Take Over the World, how to do that however, will require at least Four Evangelions. Thanks for the idea Misato-san!
"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Said at the beginning of the nuclear age by J. Robert Oppenheimer.
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Words of Wisdom from German Philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.

StrokeMeGoat
Lilith
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 131
Joined: Jan 30, 2016
Location: Indiana
Gender: Male

Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby StrokeMeGoat » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:03 am

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:^ Still, even though her intentions are good, Yui is still paying god by forcing things to go her way. In how you explained it, she thinks her way of doing thinks is best. She literally has control of the EVA, that's been evident since Episode 1. She could have made the difference in avoiding Instrumentality entirely, but chose to try and shape the word the way she thought best.

I know that in this case, she is literally playing god, but you say all this (her doing things the way she thinks is best) like it's a bad thing. Doing things the best way we know how and according to our own best judgment is truly the best we as human beings can do. Granted, blind faith in the righteousness and/or effectiveness of somebody's decision to do what they think is best actually being good is foolish, but the situation they were in taken into consideration, what choice was there possible to make that wouldn't wind up at the very least mass destruction and death? The fact she set things up in a way that there was a choice for Shinji to make on his own about the future of humanity is easily the most forgiving and generous outcome that could've been hoped for following 3I. As a matter of fact, the fact she set it all up so there was a choice at all is probably the least ego-trip "playing god" decision option that was available too, to boot.

I have to wonder too, what's playing god exactly, anyway? Or rather, what choices do we make that aren't essentially the act of us (attempting) playing god? To play god is to influence reality in a way that could affect the lives of any living being. Not all decisions are created equal, but the sin itself is in the arrogance and foolish ignorance of the act (and belief that you are in any way in control of reality) and not so much the outcome, no? Don't we all play god when acting out of our own free will, all the time? I dunno, maybe I'm being a bit too literal and simplistic, but I don't think that "playing god" is inherently a bad thing... especially when it's essentially necessary (as with Yui and 3I/HIP). Good intentions may pave the road to hell, but bad ones or none at all (with rare exception) are a portal straight into the burning pit.

DarkBluePhoenix
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 1781
Joined: Aug 01, 2016
Location: Somewhere between the light in my heart and the darkness in my soul
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:17 am

^ I still think the least ego-trip decision that could have been made was to avoid 3I entirely. She still has the arrogance to believe that the world needs to be improved in some by allowing instrumentality to occur, and leaving the decision in the hands of an unstable, depressed, and somewhat vengeful teenager is also exceedingly stupid.

Not everyone plays god in life, but here are people who do. Doctors who try to cure the incurable, people who take the lives of others, either in self-defense or in an overt act of violence, or by their own carelessness. Playing god isn't as you describe, any decision we make, just when it involves life death, and reality itself.

And playing God is inherently bad because of the singular belief that you know better and that you your decision is the only correct way. And the show gives us three perspectives of people playing god (akin to the Holy Trinity) where Gendo, SEELE, and Yui all believe that their decision and dream for instrumentality is the correct one.

Admittedly, Yui using her power to avoid 3I could be considered playing god, she would be leaving the fate of the world in the hands of all human and their free will, so whatever happens subsequently wouldn't have been affected by anything she did.
Avatar - Heero Yuy, pilot of Wing Gundam Zero. If you want to read my NGE fanfic go to my profile here - DarkBluePhoenix on FanFiction.net or DarkBluePhoenix on AO3

Voted in college to be Most likely to Take Over the World, how to do that however, will require at least Four Evangelions. Thanks for the idea Misato-san!
"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Said at the beginning of the nuclear age by J. Robert Oppenheimer.
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Words of Wisdom from German Philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.

StrokeMeGoat
Lilith
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 131
Joined: Jan 30, 2016
Location: Indiana
Gender: Male

Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby StrokeMeGoat » Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:18 am

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:^ I still think the least ego-trip decision that could have been made was to avoid 3I entirely.


I would agree if I could see a plausible way of avoiding the initiation of HIP--when you are against the equivalent of the Illuminati, there's little you can effectively do to change the outcome they desire given the manpower, control over the flow of information, and wealth they have at their disposal. I think logic behind her plan suffers from how contrived the situation is because of plot reasons, but it's in a case like this that you have to let go of common sense and accept the absurdity that comes from trying to inject mass loads of symbolism into the story... along with the fact that it's fiction. You have to treat this from an NGE in-universe perspective.

I find when I do that, I don't see another way to ultimately prevent the destruction of humanity as individual beings than to accept the inevitability of 3I given the lack of balance in power and agency when it comes to changing the outcome SEELE desires. Yui alone is like a lone person before an evangelion unit or an angel, SEELE. It's possible to change what the outcome should honestly be given the power differential individually between them, but only by working to change things within the limited set of ways available to you to do so.

FreakyFilmFan4ever
(In)Sufficient Director
(In)Sufficient Director
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 7944
Joined: Jun 09, 2009
Location: Playing amongst the stars
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:44 am

Third Impact was inevitable, as far as any puny, insignificant humans were concerned. I mean, these Angels are massive and terrifying. Not only can they hover above city and live in molten lava, they can also be as small as bacteria or even resemble in some fashion of other humans. (Kaworu alone can stoke similar fears of the Red Scare in 1950's America. "The angels can be among us, right now. They can be the post man, or even your dad.") Sure, there were only a specific amount of Angels that were going to try and contact Adam, but that doesn't take into account how many other counter Angels there might be outside of those other Angels. (To count only the Angels that are seeking Adam is like counting only the humans that pilot Evas.) They pose various existential threats, about both us existing as living creatures and by threatening that very existence. Yui had to do something, and controlling the disaster seems like the most sure option.

Also, she's attracted to Gendo, and it does take two to tango, so...

DarkBluePhoenix
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 1781
Joined: Aug 01, 2016
Location: Somewhere between the light in my heart and the darkness in my soul
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:53 pm

^ Look, I won't belabour the point any more than I need to, but everyone has agreed Yui was essentially god. If we take that into consideration, than with the power of god, which she has, she could have avoided 3I. You can't have it both ways where she's playing god, but 3I was inevitable, it's either one or the other.
Avatar - Heero Yuy, pilot of Wing Gundam Zero. If you want to read my NGE fanfic go to my profile here - DarkBluePhoenix on FanFiction.net or DarkBluePhoenix on AO3

Voted in college to be Most likely to Take Over the World, how to do that however, will require at least Four Evangelions. Thanks for the idea Misato-san!
"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Said at the beginning of the nuclear age by J. Robert Oppenheimer.
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Words of Wisdom from German Philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.

StrokeMeGoat
Lilith
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 131
Joined: Jan 30, 2016
Location: Indiana
Gender: Male

Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby StrokeMeGoat » Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:52 am

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:^ Look, I won't belabour the point any more than I need to, but everyone has agreed Yui was essentially god. If we take that into consideration, than with the power of god, which she has, she could have avoided 3I. You can't have it both ways where she's playing god, but 3I was inevitable, it's either one or the other.

I'll agree to disagree here myself, but I do want my own parting words. Yui did not achieve the full power of god until 3I had occurred, meaning for her to prevent it would also make it necessary in the first place... contradictory, right? Perhaps you could say then that she could've undone it all, but isn't that essentially what she does, even if not quite in the way you mean?

Idk, it's definitely a complex issue with no correct answer. It's interesting to hear others' perspectives on it all the same.

Bhorium
Adam
User avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 60
Joined: Jan 25, 2012
Location: Stuck in the sodding time vortex
Gender: Male

Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bhorium » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:39 pm

I think a consideration that is also worth brining up in this thread, is that Gendo and Yui by all appearances both had the same core motivation of ultimately wanting what is best for Shinji, and were willing to hurt him in the process, but rationalizing this with the idea that it would eventually be better for Shinji in the long run. But how they went about it, well...

Gendo's whole deal was one of "I'm a terrible and poisonous person and therefore not suited to be a parent without Yui around to help me, so my son would probably be better off without me in his life. Welp, better get around to ripping off that bandaid sooner than later!"

Yui's thing appears to be "It is integral that I get absorbed into the Eva that will be the lynchpin to all, so that my son will one day be the person actually holding the lynchpin. It is also integral that my son witness me get absorbed by the Eva, because this will somehow bring him to follow the path I need him to."

Please tell if I'm misrepresenting something in this, but it just appears like Yui by all means hinged her plan on traumatizing Shinji, which ultimately makes her come across as the more cold and calculated one.
Sorry, I was soliloquising again. Filthy habit.

DarkBluePhoenix
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 1781
Joined: Aug 01, 2016
Location: Somewhere between the light in my heart and the darkness in my soul
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:10 pm

^ Well, when you put it that way, yes, her plan revolved around Shinji's continued trauma, with the first step of it being seeing his mother's "death". I won't say she knew Shinji would be shipped away and left isolated till his return to Tokyo-3, but Yui knew Gendo very well and her death would be something that would send Gendo over the edge.

Though, Gendo's plan wasn't anything like Yui's. He wanted to be in control of 3I just to bring her back, so her plan for Shinji ultimately created Gendo as a competitor to her own plan.
Avatar - Heero Yuy, pilot of Wing Gundam Zero. If you want to read my NGE fanfic go to my profile here - DarkBluePhoenix on FanFiction.net or DarkBluePhoenix on AO3

Voted in college to be Most likely to Take Over the World, how to do that however, will require at least Four Evangelions. Thanks for the idea Misato-san!
"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Said at the beginning of the nuclear age by J. Robert Oppenheimer.
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Words of Wisdom from German Philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.

BlueBasilisk
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 1341
Joined: Nov 14, 2010
Gender: Male

Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby BlueBasilisk » Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:25 am

I think Yui can be just as ruthless and calculating as Gendo, if not even more so. The big difference I see is that she's much more personable and less emotionally constipated than he is so when you take them at face value, she comes off much better than he does. They both hurt and use Shinji in different ways for their own ends. Even more so in the NTE continuity where it's much more strongly implied that Gendo and Fuyutsuki is working according to her machinations. In fact, I think Yui is very similar to 3.0 Kaworu in a lot of ways. They do care about Shinji but they do some pretty horrible shit to him in the pursuit of a higher goal which they believe will be good for him.

The thing is, I'm not really sure what she could have done differently. The problem with stopping Third Impact early is the fact that Seele is still around, and they are highly influential figures around the world and have a ton of power and resources as an organization. It might not be possible to get rid of them without doing what Yui and 3.0 Gendo did by letting them think they got what they wanted and then cutting them off at the knees after they're gone. And since Seele's end goal is Human Instrumentality, they have to go for Shinji and humanity to have a proper future.
Someday I hope that we'll be reunited if that is what's destined to be. Perhaps we'll discover that elusive bible. And then we will finally be free!


Return to “Evangelion Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests