The Ayanami Connection (-nami debate)

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby Guy Nacks » Fri May 24, 2013 12:53 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:He's actually Shinji_3... the first being killed by Ramiel, the second being lost in 01 and basically re-embodied at the start of the latest film. Hence the BM03 on his foot.


Interesting idea....but i always took the BM03 just signifying that he's the Third Boy....not the Third Third Boy
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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Fri May 24, 2013 8:14 am

The idea that the 5 Children in NME are the only possible pilots is extremely appealing to me.
The fact that in NGE everyone in Shinji's class is a candidate (and because of that inherently damaged in at least the dead parent way) annoyed the hell out of me.

The mechanics of the HOW and WHY they're the only possible pilots though has so far ranged from speculation to very silly speculation.

Sure the -nami thing could imply something.
The ADAMS split could too. Although if there are supposed to be only 4, do you discount Rei because she's an artificially made one? Do you discount Kaworu because he's "the 1st demoted to 13th"? Do you discount Shinji because he'd be the super special key to it all?

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Postby ElMariachi » Fri May 24, 2013 8:40 am

View Original PostTMBounty_Hunter wrote:The idea that the 5 Children in NME are the only possible pilots is extremely appealing to me.
The fact that in NGE everyone in Shinji's class is a candidate (and because of that inherently damaged in at least the dead parent way) annoyed the hell out of me.

The mechanics of the HOW and WHY they're the only possible pilots though has so far ranged from speculation to very silly speculation.

Sure the -nami thing could imply something.
The ADAMS split could too. Although if there are supposed to be only 4, do you discount Rei because she's an artificially made one? Do you discount Kaworu because he's "the 1st demoted to 13th"? Do you discount Shinji because he'd be the super special key to it all?

Waiting for Final sure is fun.

Well, going that way, Shinji, Asuka, Mari and kaworu are the four ADAMs, and Rei is Lilith.

But still I don't think that the 5 pilots are the only one able to pilot the EVAs : if not a single other pilot as been found in the past 14 years, then why did people bothered to build EVA-07, 10, 11 and 12?
besides in 2.0 Gendo was very confident that EVA-01 could be piloted by the Dummy Plug alone, he wouldn't even try to start EVA-01 with the Dummy alone if he knew that only 5 people in the world could pilot the EVAs, and I think that he would know it if his son have the soul of a god!
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Fri May 24, 2013 8:54 am

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:Interesting idea....but i always took the BM03 just signifying that he's the Third Boy....not the Third Third Boy

They say he can't synch with Eva-01, but they also say that Shinji can still be used as a trigger.

In fact, the the fact that Nerv seemingly had to snatch Shinji for use in Eva-13 suggests something special about him, though I think this is probably related to his presence inside Eva-01 during its awakening. However, we do have to remember that Eva-13 became "an awakened Adam" when Shinji was inside. Despite Kaworu being there as well, Gendo later refers to Eva-13 itself as having been awakened.

This also goes back to something mentioned in the preview: Specifically, "The awakening of Eva-08 and its pilot". Presumably this refers to Mari. And going back to the re-designation of Eva-02 as "Kai-" or upgraded "Eva-02'", has this Eva been "awakened" as well?

The children themselves could be related to the Adams, but we would have a problem in that case with their necessarily having to be an odd child out. This would almost certainly be Shinji, with his oddness being connected to Yui in Eva-01.
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Postby Charsi » Fri May 24, 2013 9:24 am

Well, you already mentioned the Japanese naval ship thing.

The idea of 5 viable pilots makes sense to me. Granted, we don't know who they tried out as a pilot in the intervening 14 years between 2.22 and 3.33, but I find it unbelievable that they didn't find any viable candidates. Or that every candidate but the ones we already know from 2.22 was killed off. It's just way too convenient.

Lets look at it from another angle. Asuka's plugsuit. In the first two ops of 3.33 it's the old suit patched up with red duct tape. Nobody bothered to sit down and make a new one until later, or even repair the current one. Or the Eva.

From this, I feel there hasn't been a great deal of Project-E works in the intervening 14 years. With the 12th and final angel apparently destroyed, this is understandable. Add to that the fact that Mark.06 was allegedly remodeled to an autonomous type, and you really have no need to recruit or train any new pilots. Why risk lives when you've got a perfectly obedient autonomous system? The actions of humans are far harder to predict and control.

I do think the pilots are no longer human. I'm not sure if they've always been this way, but I suspect they aren't human now because of the things that have happened to them while piloting, namely, contamination:

1. Asuka was contaminated by Bardiel
2. Mari was contaminated when she inverted the controls of Eva-02
3. Shinji was contaminated when he retrieved Rei fron Zeruel's core
4. Rei is contaminated because the physical data recovered of Yui is contaminated
5. Kaworu can exist in the vacuum of space

However the theory of "contamination" doesn't explain why an ordinary human can't just hop in and try and synchronize. There's still the implication that the pilots are all special children and that comes back to why they're all named similarly.

Yui as the "control system" of Eva-01 seems to be setting up a similar scheme to that of the TV series - they can control an Eva because they have a "friendly" control system. But the concept of a 1:1 linkage between pilot and Eva is specifically undermined by the fact that Mari quite easily pilots Eva-02 against Zeruel.

The explanation I come up with for this is that the nami "series" of pilots are simply people who are compatible with the nami "series" control system. The nami control system is templated from the researcher Yui Ayanami who originally took that role for Eva-01. Nothing about this requires that the pilots be clones of one another or share genetic material; just that they all share a particular affinity for a particular control system, one that Shinji Ikari also shares.

This may go a ways to explaining why the dummy system can't activate Eva-01 (without Shinji's presence) but ALSO that Mark.06 could be successfully remodeled as an autonomous type. It's concievable that Seele came up with their own control system independently of NERV and use it in their own Evangelions. Since they came up with it, a dummy system can also be written by them to interface with it - but that dummy system would not interface with Eva-01's control system due to design differences. Remember: the dummy system in rebuild is developed at Golgotha Base, NOT by NERV as it was in the TV series.

This could even tie back into the naming convention: the "Unit" series of Eva use the NERV developed control system, and the "Mark" series of Eva use the Seele developed control system. Evangelion 13 is neither Mark nor Unit, because it has both.

I realize that got a bit off topic from the pilots names, but I think it all kind of hangs together.
Last edited by Charsi on Fri May 24, 2013 3:35 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Postby Dima » Fri May 24, 2013 9:45 am

View Original PostCharsi wrote:I do think the pilots are no longer human. I'm not sure if they've always been this way, but I suspect they aren't human now because of the things that have happened to them while piloting, namely, contamination:

1. Asuka was contaminated by Bardiel
2. Mari was contaminated when she inverted the controls of Eva-02
3. Shinji was contaminated when he retrieved Rei fron Zeruel's core
4. Rei is contaminated because the physical data recovered of Yui is contaminated
5. Kaworu can exist in the vacuum of space


We don't know if Mari was contaminated for sure.Also Kaworu is an Angel so there is no point including him.I am not sure if the contamination can be considered as the ''Curse of EVA" because Asuka and Shinji had serious reasons to be contaminated unlike Mari.
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Postby Kendrix » Fri May 24, 2013 10:53 am

View Original PostDima wrote:We don't know if Mari was contaminated for sure.Also Kaworu is an Angel so there is no point including him.I am not sure if the contamination can be considered as the ''Curse of EVA" because Asuka and Shinji had serious reasons to be contaminated unlike Mari.



They have Ritsuko explicitly state that by using beast mode, Mari "deliberately chose to enter the contamination zone" and that "Plug depht reached negative values".
All the techies are *horrified* at this - and well, 3.0 shows us why.
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Postby Charsi » Fri May 24, 2013 1:05 pm

I could have sworn I was posting in the Q forum. I have removed all spoilers pertaining to 3.33, could someone please clarify if the spoiler ban thing is lifted or what?

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Postby Giji Shinka » Fri May 24, 2013 1:14 pm

Yeah.....Why is this thread in here now? Full of spoilers you know......
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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Fri May 24, 2013 1:58 pm

http://forum.evageeks.org/post/619822/EXPIRED-Eva-30-Q-Spoiler-Policy-EVERYBODY-READ-THIS/#619822
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Postby Giji Shinka » Fri May 24, 2013 2:06 pm

View Original PostTMBounty_Hunter wrote:http://forum.evageeks.org/post/619822/EXPIRED-Eva-30-Q-Spoiler-Policy-EVERYBODY-READ-THIS/#619822

Oh, nvm.....
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Postby Charsi » Fri May 24, 2013 3:35 pm

Okay. Reinstated spoilerized post, thanks for the heads up.

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Postby riffraff11235 » Sat May 25, 2013 12:46 pm

Putting all this in spoiler tags since I'm not completely sure how the lift on the spoiler policy works yet.

Q Photograph  SPOILER: Show
Image

Discussion  SPOILER: Show
Okay, after some thought I came up with a little theory on the "-nami Connection". Here's the gist of it:

Rei, Asuka and Mari are all clones of Project E scientists.

We already know Rei is a clone of Yui, as confirmed by Fuyutsuki in Q. The rest of the theory stems from the photograph.

My idea is that Asuka and Mari are also clones, with Mari being a clone of the other woman we see in the photograph and Asuka being a clone of another woman whom we don't see. She could be the one taking the picture for all we know. Alternately, they could both be slightly modified clones of that one woman, since we've seen that she shares some traits from both Asuka and Mari.

Another part of this theory is that, just like Rei, the Asuka and Mari that we know are part of a series of clones. There could be a "Makinami series" held at Nerv's British or Russian branch (Bethany Base?), and a "Shikinami series" at Nerv's German branch. These clones would serve as renewable pilots for the Evas at each branch in case an Angel attacks there. (We all know that wouldn't happen, but it's beside the point.) Actually, them both being clones of the same woman would explain how Mari was able to pilot Unit-02 so easily.... ...Or the production model Evas could have a "general purpose entry system" that can take any pilot.... Or each pilot has an interchangeable core.... ...Never mind.

Any thoughts on these ideas?


EDIT: Just found a theory very similar to mine posted in the Q subforum back in December. That's what I get for not reading all of the older threads first! :lol:
Last edited by riffraff11235 on Fri May 31, 2013 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby xdiesp » Sat May 25, 2013 6:30 pm

Those glyphs remind me of the Red Noah locations in Nadia, which is supposed to be close to the EVA ark. IIRC at least, I frankly hate these first ancestral whatsoever retcons so I avoid them.
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Re: The "-nami" debate

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Postby Akko » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:56 pm

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:Mari, Asuka, and Rei are all clones and/or genetically engineered and have have some kind of connection with the Angels

I'm telling ya, the final battle will be Shinji vs. Giant Naked -nami girls sorry for being 5 years late


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