I'm sure the She-Ra cartoon will be a perfectly enjoyable cartoon that while maybe not looking as good in still frames will have superior fluid animation, stronger focused character writing, a better plot & will overall be the best iteration of She-Ra to date.... and it will have a low score on IMDB & be massacred on Twitter by hate-filled MRA nerd-bros who will spend countless hours of their lonely empty lives talking about how "Social Justice Warriors ruined She-Ra!"
These same women-haters will say the new She-Ra is awful because she looks like a 12 year old boy.... mind you, they'll still jerk off to hundreds of fan art drawings of her ....
Meanwhile, people who don't spend their lives attacking art online will watch the show and enjoy it for what it is. A cartoon.
Talk of this cartoon will be central to most online nerd discussions for about 3 to 5 weeks until these future wife beaters find another female-centric property to attack.

... I have little faith in male nerd culture.

On another note the She-Ra cartoon does look really cool!
Also cool looking, Netflix's Hilda!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCojP2Ubuto

I need to set aside an afternoon or two to watch this with my niece!

There’s a documentary on Netflix about the creative process behind Masters if the Universe.

I’d bet money that it exists because of the rights to He-Man changing hands and the She-Ra cartoon, but it’s actually a really entertaining and interesting watch. A surprising amount of artistic talent went into the show, but the segments in She-Ra and the live action MotU film are fantastic.

There’s a lengthy interview with Frank Langella and it still stuns me how much effort he put into his role and how eager he is to talk about it.

It’s also interesting how the toy company and “educational” segments hamstrung the creative drive behind the show. It’s sort of the opposite of Transformers, where everyone just sort of refuses to acknowledge that no one in the writing/production side of the cartoon took it seriously.

@Gendo'sPapa: I've read about the controversy, and I don't really understand why it's happening. When I saw the inital images, my thought was along the lines of "interesting, but I need to see about 30 seconds of animation before I can come to a decision." I never really watched either He Man or She Ra when I was a kid (this was due to having no cable, not getting all the broadcast networks, and the signal from Canadian stations not being strong enough most days), so I'm not really understanding their vitrol over these mattters.

Gendo'sPapa wrote:Also cool looking, Netflix's Hilda!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCojP2Ubuto

I like it!

Let me sum it up for you:


She ain’t got big tits.

Gendo'sPapa wrote:I'm sure the She-Ra cartoon will be a perfectly enjoyable cartoon that while maybe not looking as good in still frames will have superior fluid animation, stronger focused character writing, a better plot & will overall be the best iteration of She-Ra to date.... and it will have a low score on IMDB & be massacred on Twitter by hate-filled MRA nerd-bros who will spend countless hours of their lonely empty lives talking about how "Social Justice Warriors ruined She-Ra!"
These same women-haters will say the new She-Ra is awful because she looks like a 12 year old boy.... mind you, they'll still jerk off to hundreds of fan art

I love the deeper hypocrisy of this because I remember as a kid watching the original She Ra and He man in the early 80's and those same guys weren't even watching it, it was considered to feminine, pink and "For girls" and just some random off shoot of He-man which they didn't care about or pay any interest in other than to mock the girls watching it and go He man is better She Ra sucks, so them having any option now is a massive mute point.

I see the criticism of She Ra's design being comparable to this comics controversy.

David Finch drew Wonder Woman like this on a cover - http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ori ... -jl1-f.jpg

While in her own ongoing series she looked like this - https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... man-11.jpg

People rightfully called Finch out for how young & unimposing she looked compared to the League around her. It was one of the few comic controversies I found to be valid.

I'm indifferent to He Man & know next to nothing about She Ra. But I actually would like to get into this franchise (I recently read a few of the villain focused one shot comics and felt they were great).

Yes the new show is aimed for younger audiences but that flows into a bigger problem in that ALL American cartoons are being aimed at younger & younger audiences.

If they let Madhouse or Netflix do a He Man or She Ra series akin to Highlander the search for vengeance or the new Castlevania series with a similar animation style It could be amazing.

Or a comic series like this - https://pre00.deviantart.net/f924/th/pr ... bezial.jpg

It's like they are going out of their way to alienate both the small group of people who are nostalgic for the franchise but more importantly the larger group like me who enjoy stuff like the Mcu or the Wonder Woman movie which this franchise should realistically appeal to.

My biggest issue with that cover is that Diana is supposed to be equal in height to Superman and roughly an inch taller when she’s in heels. If you told me that was an issue where she’s magically cursed to be fourteen years old again, I’d believe it. Her head is disproportionately large, too. She’s usually drawn with make comic book head/body ratios rather than female head/body ratios.

Here’s the thing: American cartoons aimed at young children are not a problem. It is not a problem to make a cartoon series about a little girl with superpowers *for* little girls and it is *doubly* not a problem that the character does not have ridiculous proportions. It is in fact great that wielding a magic sword doesn’t give her a wasp waist, physique, and a rack o’ tits that 99% of girls aren’t getting without surgical intervention.

Entitled adult men can get the fuck over themselves. Not everything has to be for them. Nor does everything need to be “mature”. This show will probably have leagues more maturity than the soft core porn the complaining adult men would turn it into to anyway.

Edit:

You know what else? There’s a lot of recent cartoon series that are kid centric and have stylized designs and all that, and adults rave over them. I’m not going to accuse you personally of this movieaetman, since you addressed tone and plot, but it’s pretty clear that most of the people bitching about the designs wouldn’t care as much if it were a He-Man revival drawn like this. They likely wouldn’t even complain if the character design remained stylized but with more pronounced hips and a a larger bust. The complaining about this show based on designs and a trailer is all bitching about how people can’t jerk off to her.

I suggest you give that Netflix doc a watch. A less sexy/curvy She-Ra is what the creators actually intended. She ended up looking the way she did because the toy company mandated that she look like Barbie.

New Trailer for The Girl in the Spider's Web - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEINTQ2AP9k

Chuckman wrote:Here’s the thing: American cartoons aimed at young children are not a problem. It is not a problem to make a cartoon series about a little girl with superpowers *for* little girls

2 things can be true at once. I agree young girls absolutely have a right to their own cartoon shows & still believe this was a missed opportunity.

I’m not going to accuse you personally of this movieaetman, since you addressed tone and plot, but it’s pretty clear that most of the people bitching about the designs wouldn’t care as much if it were a He-Man revival drawn like this.

Oh I actually think it would be even more out of place if that was the case. I dislike the artstyle in general not just She Ra herself.
I actually agree the style fits fine for young female viewers, It's more Power Puff Girls then Justice League TAS and that just not my thing.

No. No it isn't. She-Ra the Princess of Power does not need a gritty, adult-oriented reboot with graphic violence and sexuality, for Christ's sake.

Do we have to ruin everything?

If it was a Red Sonja animated series or something, fine.

You can always count on movieartman to come in defense of those who truly need protecting.
Angry sexist, probably racist & definitely stunted male fans who have won the pop culture wars - superhero & Star Wars movies are the center of all pop culture - but still hate anything that doesn't directly appeal towards their prurient interests & do whatever they can to ruin it for everyone else. Especially if it's something marketed towards a female audience.

Speaking of Red Sonja & awful white men that nerds-who-only-view-the-world-through-how-things-pander-to-themselves will defend:
Repeated leaves-the-set-during-filming & actual real-world pedophile Bryan Singer still allowed to have a career & in talks to direct a film adaptation.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/bryan-singer-talks-direct-red-sonja-1144016

As hard as it will be to stay home from a movie about a muscled up barbarian woman hacking off heads, I will never watch another movie he's involved with again.

Gendo'sPapa wrote:Speaking of Red Sonja & awful white men that nerds-who-only-view-the-world-through-how-things-pander-to-themselves will defend: Repeated leaves-the-set-during-filming & actual real-world pedophile Bryan Singer still allowed to have a career & in talks to direct a film adaptation.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/bryan-singer-talks-direct-red-sonja-1144016

Oh god no...I want a Red Sonya movie but I don't want him directing it....and your right why is this pedophile still allowed to direct? Plus if they let him do this, this will be yet another Jeeper Creepers level asshole who Hollywood has given money and power to despite how bad they are while looking the other way

Chuckman wrote:No. No it isn't. She-Ra the Princess of Power does not need a gritty, adult-oriented reboot with graphic violence and sexuality, for Christ's sake.

Do we have to ruin everything?

I-I sometimes like to ruin things...

In all seriousness, I did watch that Netflix documentary you were talking about yesterday, and it was really interesting. I always thought that properties such as He-Man were nothing more than quick cash grabs either for the toy companies such as Mattel or for animation companies such as Filmation. I was surprised that there was actually passion from various people in what they did to do the best job possible. I also found it surprising that in the original She-Ra cartoon, she was not allowed in engage in swordplay by the execs. When you have a sword, you should damn well expect to use it.

Netflix period piece cult horror film Apostle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1JdWOqc9Q8

Gendo'sPapa wrote:You can always count on movieartman to come in defense of those who truly need protecting.

No I just deeply hate hyper exaggerated sweeping generalizations.
Claiming that anyone who wants a traditionally attractive female character to remain traditionally attractive must hate all women & will end up being a wife beater is a deranged notion.
In over 100 years of film & animation, audiences preferring to see visually pleasing characters has been a universal constant. Is it entitled, maybe but it's not evil.

Speaking of Red Sonja & awful white men that nerds-who-only-view-the-world-through-how-things-pander-to-themselves will defend

Nope, fuck Singer.

cyharding wrote:I also found it surprising that in the original She-Ra cartoon, she was not allowed in engage in swordplay by the execs. When you have a sword, you should damn well expect to use it.

Heh, reminds me of how in the 90s Spider-Man cartoon he wasn't allowed to throw direct punches & in the spin off cartoon from the Brendon Frasier Mummy, guns were not used at all despite O'Connell in the movies being a near Burt Gummer gun nut.

You’re defining visually pleasing by what appeals to grown men. No one is talking about making She-Ra a deformed hunchback with a beard. The new design is not ugly. The complaints about the design are complaints about a lack of tits.

I’m really liking Netflix putting out these horror joints and hope they do more of that and less of Bright.

Getting Wicker Man vibes from that trailer.

movieartman wrote:No I just deeply hate hyper exaggerated sweeping generalizations.
Claiming that anyone who wants a traditionally attractive female character to remain traditionally attractive must hate all women & will end up being a wife beater is a deranged notion.
In over 100 years of film & animation, audiences preferring to see visually pleasing characters has been a universal constant. Is it entitled, maybe but it's not evil.

The new She-Ra is "visually pleasing" (what a gross way to describe a character). What you mean to say is the immediate response isn't that she's super "fuckable". Try to coat it whatever defense you want but from what little has been shown the character design has received positive response from all groups except the same women-are-objects troglodytes who always try to make pop culture be about them.

This groups has been doing it for ages now. They launched an online campaign for why Mad Max: Fury Road was going to be bad because the film was unabashedly feminist. In between conversations of people looking forward to the same the same 4Chan/RedPill dwellers would throw out word salad arguments for why the new film wouldn't work and they'd always end with "why alienate fans & people new to the franchise? Who wants to see a Mad Max where a woman takes the lead?" Answer: Everyone. Your myopic view of the world is not the way things are.

They'll throw out long-worded defenses for why "New She-Ra/INSERT CHARACTER HERE" is bad & indicative of a real problem but underneath the word salad is "A. I think she's ugly. B. I don't want to fuck her. C. I can't relate to her experience so fuck this."

I don't take sexist bullshit lightly & based on what little has been shown of the New She-Ra, it's all the same woman hating nonsense.

Speaking of "if it ain't for me it's bad" mentality. Your statement of "Yes the new show is aimed for younger audiences but that flows into a bigger problem in that ALL American cartoons are being aimed at younger & younger audiences" is another bit of bullshit. While the theatrical market needs to be fixed this statement is an empty one when The Simpsons is still on, Family Guy remains central to pop culture, American Dad has new episodes, The Venture Brothers are back, South Park is on their 22nd season, Rick & Morty just won an Emmy & is omnipresent, in between their live action cartoons (superhero movies) Warner Brothers & DC put out animated features almost monthly about Batman & Batgirl fucking or what Batman in the 1800s would be like or whatever it is people think is "cool & edgy", Bojack Horseman is legitimately the best goddamn thing Netflix has done to date, Archer is an FXX staple, Adventure Time + Steven Universe & especially Regular Show while kid friendly are 100% shows built to appeal to older audiences & every night for 10 hours or so Cartoon Network becomes a home to all these shows & more lends the original "no cartoons for adults" as another case of myopia. Could there be more action cartoons that lean towards mature audiences? Sure. Are we currently starving for adult leaning animated fare made in the US? Not at all.

We are definitely starving or adult-oriented action cartoons. All of the shows you mentioned are comedies.

I'm surprised it's not changing, actually. Not so much for feature films, but there are so many fantasy (that is, costume, location, and special effects) heavy properties going into production right now that it's almost odd that none of them are animated. As anyone can see from translating A Song of Ice and Fire to the screen, many of the problems that make these shows difficult to adapt are less important if the production is animated instead: You don't need to worry about the cast growing too large if there are talented voice actors, and likewise there's less concern about actors getting too old, dying, quitting, getting #MeToo'd, etc. Special effects don't require massive amounts of CGI or demand the kind of aggressive budget massaging that ends up with truncated story arcs and missing characters and there's no need to either do expensive location shoots or elaborate soundstage/green screen work.

Animation certainly isn't easier but I can't believe no one at any of these production companies hasn't looked at the Dorne Debacle in Game of Thrones, where one of the major plots that viewers were excited about turned out to have badly choreographed action scenes, rushed dialogue, bad acting from talented performers, and limited screen time, almost all due to the expense and difficulty of filming at the Alhambra. (Which was just an extravagance, but I digress)

That said...

There's no reason to Grim and Grittify old 80's cartoon properties to fill that niche of adult-oriented action/adventure/whatever animation. At all. We're not so starved for things to adapt that it's time to turn back to She-Ra the Princess of Power for that.

Well, we may be starved for adult oriented cartoons rife with action, blood, and guts, but how about what looks like it will be a strong live-action adapatation of a great anime?

Gendo'sPapa wrote:I can't relate to her experience so fuck this

If I couldn't relate to or immerse myself in the story of female characters, Misato in Eva & Kate Kane / Batwoman would not be among my top favorite characters ever in any medium of entertainment.

I don't take sexist bullshit lightly & based on what little has been shown of the New She-Ra, it's all the same woman hating nonsense.

Look, we are never going to agree here.
Believing that guys wanting to see beautiful or yes even "fuckable" women in entertainment is "woman hate" is a completely unreasonable position to me.

The despicable trash who are sending actual threats or abuse to the creators have my full condemnation, but the vast majority of the people complaining aren't doing that & aren't doing anything wrong by voicing their disappointment IMO.

And before you presume I some full on crusader against this cartoon, this is literally my first & likely my last conversation about it.

Chuckman wrote:We are definitely starving or adult-oriented action cartoons. All of the shows you mentioned are comedies.

Exactly.

Chuckman wrote:I’m really liking Netflix putting out these horror joints and hope they do more of that and less of Bright.

They just keep coming this one a series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9OzG53VwIk
The Haunting of Hill House with Timothy Hutton & Carla Gugino.
Based off the novel that was adapted into both The Haunting movies.