Star Wars Episode II - A New Thread

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:35 pm

It's funny. Since I don't give two fucks about the mythology of Star Wars I'm able to treat the films as actual narratives and not part of some large neverending universe that I've grown up with. And while I've certainly been aware of who these characters are and have seen the original films they were never a founding element of my childhood that I latched onto throughout the years. Maybe because of this I find Luke's arch in The Last Jedi to be kind of perfect, wonderfully executed and allows Mark Hamill to give the first truly phenomenal performance of his career removed from voicework. I personally find it and his stellar actions in the third act are some of the most memorable in the series - he achieves arguably the most badass moment of the franchise to date and does so without taking a life, a truly epic moment of pacifism & easily the most Jedi thing in the series where they usually kill first & ask questions later - and it helps me respect and think about Luke more as a fully rounded character.

It's certainly superior to what they did with Han Solo in The Force Awakens.

But again, my connection to Luke the character is just that - he's a character.

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Postby Chuckman » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:20 pm

The rejection of violence thing was done already. It’s not as much of a retread as a really big Death Star, but it’s still a retread.

The same idea was already done with more elegance in a better movie.

More importantly, I just realized something.

The Death Star in *Jedi* is bigger than the one in the first movie. So not only is the stupid thing in TFA a retread, *making it bigger* is also a retread. JJs movies are like the fractal form of being derivative.

Fuck I just realized that he made the bad guy starship in *Star Trek 2: Not Star Trek II* a bigger Enterprise, but black so you know it’s evil. He’s gone beyond ripping off himself to rip off the technique by which he rips off himself.

Fifty bucks says that Episode IX has a weaponized star in it. The *ultimate* Death Star! Muahahaha!
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Postby Gazdakka Gizbang » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:17 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:That said, part of the problem here is that no matter how the producers intended Holdo to be read -she is pretty badass, and has one of the most visually striking heroic moments in the entire franchise- the audience is insistent that she's a diversity hire. The same as Rey is a Mary Sue.


I disagree. I don't consider Holdo to be a badass, and that's in spite of me liking Laura Dern, but I also don't consider her to be just a diversity hire. I think part of it came from Kathleen Kennedy's #TheForceIsFemale push, which lumps what could have been a role no-one would have thought twice about (love you, Mon Mothma) into a specific social agenda. Aside from that, any such arguments would be reaching at best.

My opinion is her character was very poorly handled and is part of what is arguably the most contradictory part of the film: using hyperspace to wreck a fleet. We're pretending the concept is possible when there's already 7 main films where this technology has been present and yet has never been used like this before, in a universe where droids exist meaning you don't have to kamikaze yourself anymore.

I've looked up talks about this and I've come to agree that her command was also fairly incompetent - her plan was nothing she couldn't have told Poe or the rest of her crew, and when you have Poe literally begging for information and a sum of your force is so demoralised they're willing to commit mutiny out of a lack of confidence in your leadership, something is wrong.

In all, it's a disappointing example of missed opportunity in the same way that Captain Phasma received virtually no character development and existed only for Finn to kill her.

Rey:
1. Daughter of a nobody and some jerk.
2. Survives a fight with a wounded, enraged not-Jedi not-Sith full of conflict over killing his dad who just got shot with a bowcaster
3. Just, like, totally went to the dark side for a minute
4. Waved a lightsaber around
5. Killed a bunch of jobber guards, with help from a guy with way more training, after he killed the not-Sith Lord
6. Lifted some rocks


You forgot that she somehow had no problem swimming when it was implied that she has little to no experience with water besides daily needs, defeats the last Jedi Knight after only a half-session of training, shoots down three TIE fighters with one shot in the Milennium Falcon despite never using the gun before, and as some have pointed out those rocks would easily outweigh an X-Wing, which she lifts effortlessly.

I've always considered Luke to have started out as a Mary Sue, but Empire was all about him failing:

- failed to see the Wampa and would have died if not for Solo
- failed to adequately defend Hoth with any noticeable impact, losing his gunner and ship in the process.
- failed to express patience in Yoda
- failed to lift the X-Wing
- failed in his trial at the cave
- failed at saving his friends in Cloud City
- showed promise in his opening bout against Vader, but is absolutely outclassed and loses his hand.

These when put together were all more than adequate in bringing Luke down from Gary Stu level. I wanted something similar to happen to Rey in TLJ: a humbling where she's put in her place and shown that the rest of the way is perilous and has to be earned through hard work and sacrifice. Sadly that didn't happen, and she still has no real character flaws nor has endured any hardships since us knowing her (her abandonment was probably more challenging to face than anything we've seen from her in person).

But I digress: these are just fuckups in a long, sad, 152 minutes of fuckups. Needless to say I despise TLJ, and I very much doubt there's anything Abrams can do to lend urgency to the next act when everything that could have been interesting has been largely stripped away.

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Postby Chuckman » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:45 pm

You forgot that she somehow had no problem swimming when it was implied that she has little to no experience with water besides daily needs, defeats the last Jedi Knight after only a half-session of training, shoots down three TIE fighters with one shot in the Milennium Falcon despite never using the gun before, and as some have pointed out those rocks would easily outweigh an X-Wing, which she lifts effortlessly.


Swimming: Infants can swim instinctively.

Half session of training: Luke goes from having his hand lopped off to schooling Vader with no actual training in between other than getting really mad.

Millenium Falcon gun: Like Luke did? You mean a person who turns out to be force sensitive displays latent force sensitivity?

Rock vs X-Wing: Size matters not.
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Re: Star Wars Episode II - A New Thread

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Postby Gazdakka Gizbang » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:30 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Swimming: Infants can swim instinctively.


Incorrect. What you're referring to is the Diving/Swimming Reflex, the most important thing of which to note is that infants cannot swim, but up until 6 months they exhibit reactions that increase their survivability when submerged.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_swimming

It was a missed opportunity for character development in that Rey could have been challenged by an environment that is new to her, exemplifying that she isn't perfect and has shortcomings of her own.

Half session of training: Luke goes from having his hand lopped off to schooling Vader with no actual training in between other than getting really mad.


General estimates place the time between Empire and RotJ between a few days to a year, with most veering towards the latter in order for certain events to be set in motion (Han being frozen long enough to get hibernation sickness, Lando infiltrating Jabba's guard before anyone else shows up).

Do I think that's long enough to get better at the Force? I'm a cynic so no, but it's longer than any stretch of time Rey is given. The EU tried to pad out the gap with fluff like Shadows of the Empire, but I wasn't much of a fan for "extra material" to begin with.

Millenium Falcon gun: Like Luke did? You mean a person who turns out to be force sensitive displays latent force sensitivity?


This is reaching. There's a good 2-3 minutes of Luke missing every target the first time he hops on the quad cannon, and each kill is from a flurry of shots being fired that are led towards the target once placement is established, whereas Rey's first shot kills three-in-one. Where no time has passed between TFA and TLJ so no fluff can be thrown into the middle to give excuses.

Rock vs X-Wing: Size matters not.


I would be inclined to agree since it is a direct quote from Yoda, however it's also worth noting that there is a point where a limitless amount of power becomes ridiculous and diminishing to the story. The Force Unleashed and its sequel feature a Jedi who pulls TIE fighters out of the sky in addition to a Star Destroyer out of low altitude - and this was once canonical. I consider this (The Force Unleashed) to be stupid, and no amount of "size matters not" handwaving will grant it justification.

As with before, I feel this was also missed opportunity where excess wasn't needed. Showing a struggle to pull out the first few rocks and pulling enough to make a doorway would have been more sufficient and helped to define limitations.

This is without mentioning her being more knowledgeable about the Falcon than either of its long-standing pilots and Force persuading a guard in an extremely short time with no training. Unlike most of her detractors however, I gave Rey more leeway in TFA expecting her to be rounded out by TLJ. That didn't happen, and I very much doubt anything will change by IX given that almost every trilogy involves the main hero getting stronger by the finale.

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Postby Gus Hanson » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:06 pm

Carrie Fisher will return for episode IX using unseen footage from Force Awakens is among the many announced returning cast members:
https://www.hypable.com/star-wars-episo ... -williams/
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Postby Gazdakka Gizbang » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:58 pm

View Original PostGus Hanson wrote:Carrie Fisher will return for episode IX using unseen footage from Force Awakens is among the many announced returning cast members:
https://www.hypable.com/star-wars-episo ... -williams/


Last I heard they weren't going to use CGI work of Fisher in IX despite having permission to use it. Guess they flipped on that one since there isn't really a sincere way to write Leia out of the Resistance when she was its leader. I can understand that notion, even if I didn't like the CGI lifting of Tarkin in Rogue One.

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Postby cyharding » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:44 pm

I just saw Rogue One this afternoon. This is the first of the Disney era Star Wars films that I have seen, and I did find it enjoyable, though some things did throw me off. One is that I didn't find it believable that Lyn would be so inspriational when she was speaking the Alliance council. It just seemed out of place to me. The second is that how would they figure out that Lyn's handprint would work to open the door in the tower. I could think of a few logical ideas myself, but it irked that there wasn't an in-movie explanation. They don't explain that. The third is that while I did get the Star Wars feel watching it, but I also sensed that it seemed....polished or refined. I didn't sense the pulp roots of it that I felt in the original trilogy, especially in A New Hope. The only other thing I could think of was that I like the droid character.

My apologies if this reads like a jumbled mess. These are more thoughts and impressions than acutal criticisms compared to what I have read from all of you in this thread. I hope all of you don't mind.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:29 pm

I hope sexist assholes everywhere feel this kick to their tiny dicks HARD.

Disney extends Kathleen Kennedy's Lucasfilm contract for three more years:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-chief-kathleen-kennedys-lucasfilm-deal-extended-three-years-1147653?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=THR%20Breaking%20News_now_2018-09-28%2012:15:01_ehayden&utm_term=hollywoodreporter_breakingnews

I also hope people take this to heart: those asshole women-hating Youtube vloggers who make endless videos about how "The Last Jedi is the worst movie of all time because.... uh... FemiNazis" & talk about "rumors" on how Kathleen Kennedy is getting fired or other conspiracy BS about pop culture films don't know shit.

No one in the industry talks to these people.

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:17 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Disney extends Kathleen Kennedy's Lucasfilm contract for three more years

To fix the mistakes she's made thus far.

And no, I'm not saying that because she's a woman, but because the last several movies have been poorly done, TLJ for its subpar plot and sidekick sidequest which did little else than pad the runtime, and the extensive reshoots that muddled Rogue One and even more extensive reshoots that killed Solo.

Also, let's be fair, Disney can't look like it's giving in to the huddled masses calling for her to be fired, can they?
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Postby TheFriskyIan » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:49 am

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:And no, I'm not saying that because she's a woman, but because the last several movies have been poorly done, TLJ for its subpar plot and sidekick sidequest which did little else than pad the runtime


Unfortunately that opinion can be contested. I'm probably one of the biggest haters of TLJ, I think it was a poorly made movie and I will defend my opinion to the death. However, numbers don't lie; TLJ made money, A LOT of money. Maybe not as much as TFA but enough for people to claim TLJ was the second coming of Christ (spoiler alert: far from it).

The good news is, Disney did take notice of the quality of Star Wars films even with TLJ making a lot of money and changed accordingly. I distinctly remember hearing how Marvel Studios was reworked a bit following Avengers 2 not making as much as Avengers 1; if that's the case then Disney putting the story films on hold doesn't seem like much of a surprise, and I doubt Kennedy gets to continue her work without a giant eyeball behind her back.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:38 am

^ Any opinion can be contested, but money alone does not make a film a success. Look at Blade Runner and Fight Club, both films made less than their budgets domestically, yet they are considered great films. And BvS made loads of cash and it sucked. Hell, Avatar is the biggest box office film in history (not counting inflation), and it's nothing but the story of Pocahontas with blue aliens with fantastic visual effects.

The fact they put an indefinite hold of the SW story shit shows that Disney knows the franchise is headed in the wrong direction, and they're giving Kennedy a chance to rectify her mistakes while the big mouse watches over her shoulder to avoid more bad press.
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Postby silvermoonlight » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:12 am

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:To fix the mistakes she's made thus far.

And no, I'm not saying that because she's a woman, but because the last several movies have been poorly done, TLJ for its subpar plot and sidekick sidequest which did little else than pad the runtime, and the extensive reshoots that muddled Rogue One and even more extensive reshoots that killed Solo.


In my view George Lucas's episodes 1-3 are ten times worse than any off these new movies are the guy can't even follow his own canon. I won't say the new ones don't have faults because they do but then no movie, series or comic is ever perfect it only gets the weird fanboy/girl coating of perfection ifs in been around the fandom a long time or is considered a cult classic like Blade Runner or Labyrinth became so seeking ultimate perfection is media is like trying to scale an endless ladder.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:35 am

As usual.
People misread the facts.
Disney ain't putting Star Wars on any real kind of hold.
Theatrically you could read it as that but it ain't so.
Solo was a bomb but theatrically alone they've made $4.5 billion in the past three years. After Episode IX hey'll have made more money with Star Wars in theaters than everything Pixar combined.
They ain't stopping that.
Rather they're in the process of moving Live Action Star Wars from being a purely theatrical market to a mix of theatrical & streaming.
They may not release a new Star Wars movie in theaters in 2020, sure.
Instead they're ramping up production for a $150+ million costing live action Star Wars series that will only be available on their Disney Streaming service.
THAT'S the Star Wars project Kathleen Kennedy & Lucasfilm will be focused on for 2020.
So instead of making a 2 hour movie there will release roughly 13 hours of big budget live action Star Wars content in 2020.
Despite whatever some bro says on his youtube channel that is not putting an "indefinite hold" on Star Wars.
That's an increase.
Disney Streaming is forcing a major shift in all things under the Mouse House because they want to usurp Netflix at the over-the-top business business model.
Starting in 2021 or 2022 there will probably be combined Star Wars projects per year. One season of TV & one theatrical movie.
Hardly a hold.
If successful the Star Wars Live Action Show would bring several million customers to Disney streaming immediately who are all willing to pay a couple bucks a month in perpetuity that Disney won't have to share with theaters or anyone else.
That's worth the theatrical box office of a dozen The Force Awakens.

Only real content course correction happening is Disney realizing that projects like Baby Han Solo or Baby Boba Fett - projects put into production right before Kathleen Kennedy was brought in to Lucasfilm & was given the job to make these projects happen - aren't as attractive a sell for a trip out to the movies as they originally thought. Most likely a lot of those early ideas - Baby Boba Fett, Yoda Standalone, more Baby Han Solo - are going to be come Disney Streaming projects.

If Disney felt there was a even an iota of a possibility that Kathleen Kennedy was going to lose them money on their second biggest financial franchise - it's after Mickey Mouse & Friends actually which is a monster revenue machine, Marvel may be huge theatrically but even it can't compare to Mickey Mouse or Star Wars in the merchandize game which is where the REAL money is at - she would've been fired ages ago.
She's not.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:36 pm

Here’s a solid fact:

Kathleen Kennedy is one of the most accomplished film producers of your childhood.

Seriously, read up on her filmography, it’s amazingly profitable.

I think Disney is extending her contract to keep an accomplished filmmaker on hand. I also think that most faults within the Disney wizard children’s stories they’ve been telling are strictly from the unreasonable time constraints they’ve had on these films. I predicted this “One Per Year” trend was gonna kick SW in the balls and leave a sour taste in the audience’s mouth ever since Disney bought the damn property back before the announced a script or anything. (Boy, do I remember fondly the days when starry-eyed SW fans ignorantly told me that I’d be wrong in my prediction.) It takes 3 years to gestate a decent Star Wars movie with the entire creative team’s undivided attention. (And even then you sometimes get the Preques as a result.) Bob Iger demanding one new SW movie per year was an absurd demand to begin with, and no one here should ever lose sight of that. Marvel was one of the very few exceptions to that rule, and their episodic stories aren’t even as closely tied together as SW is, which partially why it can work like that. This is just how the film industry works in America: if the CEO demands that things get rushed, then they will be more likely to release shoddy work. And if you don’t like that, then go read a book instead or something.

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Postby cyharding » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:31 pm

I do have one question, and I would like a serious answer: Why the hell are people so up in arms about real and precieved problems with these movies as if it is a life or death matter? There are certainly matters in the real world that merit such passions. These are just movies.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:50 am

View Original Postcyharding wrote:I do have one question, and I would like a serious answer: Why the hell are people so up in arms about real and precieved problems with these movies as if it is a life or death matter? There are certainly matters in the real world that merit such passions. These are just movies.

Within terms of Star Wars as a franchise, I can only answer this on a personal level. Within terms of the industry surrounding the making of these movies, I can only speak based on my little experience in the film industry.

For Star Wars, I truly don't care as much as other people do. I enjoy the original for what they were, and actually have fairly high esteem for The Empire Strikes Back, not just as a Star Wars movie, but also as a sequel film in general. It was one of the first popular sequel films in America to prove that they can exceed the expectations set by their original counterparts. Honestly, I'm more of a fan of George Lucas than I am of Star Wars, which means I find him endlessly fascinating. We've all benefited from his interest in HD Digital Video and how he focused on shooting his prequel trilogy with that new technology. Without that invested interest by an influential filmmaker, I would not have had the opportunity to work on the few film projects I have, say nothing of actually building my own capital in the goal of starting my own film business.

Which kinda leads me into the industry reasons why I think this is important. The more vocal dose of the Star Wars has a long history of a ridiculous scale of gatekeeping, up to and including hating the Prequels so much that George Lucas himself couldn't be bothered to pursue the franchise anymore, even though his involvement with the franchise made major profits every single time he did. Since chasing George Lucas out of the SW franchise, they have turned their attention onto the cast members and the new, very accomplished Executive Producer of the franchise, Kathleen Kennedy. I think the openers the franchise had to its fans is partially to blame for this. There was little to no vetting for the Star Wars books that were published and officially sanctioned by LucasFilm, so everyone felt that they had an equal say in the franchise, fans included. So whenever someone like George Lucas (or Kathleen Kennedy) added to it with the more dominant film medium in the Star Wars franchise, fans all over have consistently and constantly gathered to shout them down time and again. They had seen it as Lucas/Kennedy invading their space, and their vitriol was socially violent. ("George Lucas raped my childhood!" was a constant mantra among these people throughout the prequels, and it's continuingnto this day under the :FemiNazi" mantras.) This is why I think it's important that Bob Iger came out a few days ago clarifying that it was his fault that these movies seemed rushed, and keep Kathleen Kennedy on as Executive Producer. It tears the air while removing any foundation that the fans thought they had whenever they targeted someone.

Outside of those two paragraphs, I don't care that much for Star Wars. My interest in the franchise kinda died when George Lucas left the project, but at the same time I don't feel that its fair or even accurate to blame everything on Kathleen Kennedy while actively remaining ignorant to the amazing work she's done in the past. (In fact, I think that Kennedy's work as producer far exceeds Lucas' within terms of the qualities of their finished products. As much as I respect George Lucas for his achievements in film and his contribution to the industry as a whole, Kennedy's put out some far better movies. Jurassic Park is better movie than Empire Strikes Back is, and I will fight people on that one.)

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Postby silvermoonlight » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:16 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Here’s a solid fact:

Kathleen Kennedy is one of the most accomplished film producers of your childhood.

Seriously, read up on her filmography, it’s amazingly profitable.


I took the time to look in to this and this is so true every film you ever thought was amazing in the 80's and mid 90's she was behind films like Indiana Jones, Gremlins, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Empire of The Sun. So clearly anyone who is taking it out on her needs to stop and look at Disney studio itself for pushing films out to fast and refocus there anger big time. Also the only blow out film this woman has ever had was the Avatar film and that was not a dud because of her it was because of M. Night Shyamalan thinking he knew better and completely misreading the avatar fanbase.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:33 pm

silvermoonlight wrote:In my view George Lucas's episodes 1-3 are ten times worse than any off these new movies are the guy can't even follow his own canon.

Considering the man came up with the idea, how would he not be following his own canon. If you're referring to the old EU, now known as Legends, those were not top tier canon. If you're curious how that all worked out, read this. It's kinda like how anything Anno comes up with in explaining EVA is automatically canon, because it his creation.

And again, I don't see why everyone hates the prequels, sure they weren't perfect, far from it, they had Jar-Jar, excessive hatred of sand, Jesus-like babies, but looking at it purely as the story of the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader it does what it's supposed to. These new movies also aren't perfect, but so far, the only story they're telling is about the dying of the old guard and the passing of the torch.

As for Kennedy, as the representative of the studio and dealing with coordinating everything for the films, she should have realized given her extensive experience that one year per film was outrageous. Bob Iger may be the head of Disney, but she is within her rights as a division president to tell him the request is outrageous and could cost them money in the long run. That's her job to do running a division of Disney, listen to what she's told from above and advise them on the division and what she thinks are reasonable expectations to have. Clearly the "one a year" model was a mistake, and the quality of the films did suffer, no matter what anyone says, the story is incoherent, and switching directors with obviously different visions and reshooting such large portions of films you end up with a hobbled mess.
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Re: Star Wars Episode II - A New Thread

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:05 pm

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:As for Kennedy, as the representative of the studio and dealing with coordinating everything for the films, she should have realized given her extensive experience that one year per film was outrageous. Bob Iger may be the head of Disney, but she is within her rights as a division president to tell him the request is outrageous and could cost them money in the long run.

That's not how any of this really works.

Let's look at some examples from great producers of the past:

Joel Silver has been behind some amazing films as producer. He's behind some of the best action films of our time, including both Die Hard and Predator. He produced Who Framed Roger Rabbit along side Kathleen Kennedy. His other films as prouder include Lethal Weapon, Sherlock Holmes, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, AND he was one of the producers behind The Matrix...

...then WB Studios decided rush things by demanding that the two Matrix sequels should be shot back-to-back and come out within the same year. Those movies suck.

Barry Osborne produced The Matrix along side Joel Silver, and then when on to produce The Lord of the Rings Trilogy. These movies are also awesome...

...and then WB Studios decided rush things by demanding that the Hobbit prequels should be shot back-to-back and come out within the same year before having any clear direction or artistic goals. Those movies suck.

Basically, the studio has the power to decide that a movie will be rushed, and the producers/directors/etc. get to decide how it will be rushed. And unless one of them pulls a Hideaki Anno and builds their own studio from scratch where they can call their own shots as producers and directors, then that's how it will be for the rest of the industry's existence in this shape. Simple as that.

ALSO, I find it really disingenuous to blame the executive producer of Star Wars on classic Disney-style failings when these movies are actually own by Disney now. I mean, anytime Disney fucks up, most audiences are ready to blame Disney for those mistakes. Pocahontas was insensitive to the historic and racial accounts of the actual historical event? Classic Disney. The Hunchback of Notre Dame forced stupid slap-stick comedy into an operatic movie about the dark side of historic Catholicism? Classic Disney. Disney blows a ton of money of the .go domain during the height of the internet bubble? Classic Disney. Disney buys out Fox in an attempt to become one of the largest entertainment monopolies in the world? Classic Disney. Disney rushes out Star Wars movies because they spent $4 Billion on the property and need to make the money back as fast as possible? Classic-... Kennedy?

No. It's inconsistent and illogical arguing. The shadow of the Mouse looms large over Hollywood. People in that company WAY higher ranked than the Executive Producer on any of their films have a greater and tighter micro-managerial style to their every theatrically released output than any other studio in all of Hollywood. We've known this for a while. We've discussed their other properties in this light. Why do people suddenly decide to turn on Kathleen Kennedy simply because Disney is doing yet another one of their classic Disney stunts? What harebrained idiot have they been reading on the internet that would counter every factually established pattern of this over-reaching company?
Last edited by FreakyFilmFan4ever on Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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