The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation

Fanfiction, fan art, AMVs, and any other fan creations or Eva-related projects: share your work and discuss others' here.

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HARVEST
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Re: The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation

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Postby HARVEST » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:31 pm

First of all, thanks for your input.
And yes, I do think the (Silence) effect works better subtitled than with an overlay.
But that's just me preferring the Japanese Design, though I just use the English Design to be more consistent with the Perfect Collection VHS subs.
I haven't compared my English effect and the Japanese effect side-by-side yet since I don't have the Renewal Feature Film DVD.

Take a look at the MEGA link I Pm'd you.
Secondly, I haven't watched EoE for some time so I forgot the "Do you feel good?" text was over live-action footage rather than on a black background, which makes sense on why it should be subtitles.

However, I now PM'd you my subtitles and the Air overlay is a recreation of the Japanese version (black text on a white square on a black background) and I even used a similar font to thr original Air text (I specifically just took Times New Roman Bold and made it thinner, I also used Times New Roman Bold for the NGE logo).
I'm not sure what you think but my Air overlay is an okay recreation of the Japanese overlay.
It's not just a replacement of the Air title card with a more generic episode title like My Purest Heart for You.

Third, they use a "generic" font for the Japanese NGE logo as much as using the iconic one in the OP.
So, I think my Times New Roman Bold NGE logo works since said "generic" Japanese logo often accompanies the English logo.
And I don't know which font they used but I just used Times New Roman Bold for both the NGE logo and Air's title since it looks similar.

Fourth, Asuka's line has a double meaning referring to both what Shinji did in the beginning (feeling disgusted) and literally feeling sick (maybe due to morning sickness).
So, "How sickening..." is a better translation.
And, even if you did use "Disgusting..." instead, I think that line felt more complete with a How in the beginning of the line.

Finally. Yes, the Blu-ray box is worth buying for the movies alone.
It has three discs for the movies: the theatrical edition of Evangelion:Death and Rebirth, the theatrical edition of The End of Evangelion, and Revival of Evangelion (Death(true^2)/Air/My Purest Heart for You).
However, EoE had no changes in Revival except for the 5.1 remix.
If you are a purist for the original versions, the Blu-rays of the movies are great, and if you are a 100% purist, watch it with the 2.0 mix (with Dolby Pro Logic on) instead of the 5.1 mix)

P.S: Putting up my edit of your EoE subs on this thread would be pointless, since my second revision undos the the "Do you love me?" overlay (which also had a black background in my subs).
It only has four changes this time: the Times New Roman Bold NGE logo, the Air overlay, the English (Silence) overlay, and "How sickening...".

I can probably post screencaps this Sunday.

Again, I don't have the actual Renewal Film DVD (regular or DTS versions) so I can only use dummy video screenshots from Aegisub.

If I save more money, maybe I can buy the pre-Renewal Director's Cut DVDs, and the DTS Collector's Edition of the Feature Film DVD (since, even if the superior DTS track is a remix, at least it has fancier packaging and an option for the original 2.0 mix in Dolby).
Last edited by HARVEST on Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

HARVEST
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Re: The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation

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Postby HARVEST » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:55 pm

Comparisons of my personal edit:
Neon Genesis Evangelion Theatrical Version
Mjonlir Mark IV
Image
Mine
Image

Air
Mjonlir Mark IV
Image
Mine
Image

(Silence)
Mjonlir Mark IV
Image
Mine
Image

And yes, (Silence) does have the effects like in the Japanese version.
I don't actually have the Renewal DVD of EoE so I can't compare it with the actual video.

Mjolnir Mark IV
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Re: The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation

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Postby Mjolnir Mark IV » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:28 am

It's really cool that you're trying to help make this project better—but since you aren't using actual screenshots, you're comparing what people would see (your full-screen overlays) against something they would never realistically see (my subtitles without video). Since my subtitles are designed around the video, showing them without video is misleading.

A better comparison would be to compare three shots (in whichever order makes sense to you):
  • A raw screenshot (no subtitles or overlays).
  • A screenshot with my subtitles.
  • A screenshot with your full-screen overlays.

That way you would be making comparisons between shots that the viewer would actually see. Although for the (Silence) one, you would probably need to do a clip comparison since it's animated.

HARVEST wrote:I'm not sure what you think but my Air overlay is an okay recreation of the Japanese overlay.
It's not just a replacement of the Air title card with a more generic episode title like My Purest Heart for You.

There's enough unique artistic design with the "Air" title for me to be in favor of letting the original show and just subtitling it. I favor the original work whenever it's a practical and effective option, and I think in this case, it is. Same for the (Silence) shot too, although you did a good job mimicking the shrink, blur, and fade effects.

HARVEST wrote:Third, they use a "generic" font for the Japanese NGE logo as much as using the iconic one in the OP.
So, I think my Times New Roman Bold NGE logo works since said "generic" Japanese logo often accompanies the English logo.

My qualm is not that you're trying to mimic the logo, but that you're imposing it in a place where it isn't used in the original Japanese. In my eyes, that transcends adaptation and crosses into fan-edit territory. There's nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but it's not what this project is.

That said, I appreciate your intention to improve my work and that I hope you continue to participate, because several of your suggestions for the NGE subtitles I did (one of which is also applicable to this project) are very good ones that I've already integrated into the subtitles, as you will see in the next release! :thumbsup:

HARVEST wrote:Fourth, Asuka's line has a double meaning referring to both what Shinji did in the beginning (feeling disgusted) and literally feeling sick (maybe due to morning sickness).
So, "How sickening..." is a better translation.

First and foremost, "disgusting" is one of the definitions listed for 気持ち悪い on jisho.org, whereas "sickening" is not (same with Google Translate, for what that's worth).
http://jisho.org/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93& ... A%E3%81%84
https://translate.google.com/#ja/en/%E6 ... A%E3%81%84

Secondly, disgusting and sickening are almost the same thing. Both have a double meaning—both can be defined in terms of either psychological loathing or physiological nausea. The difference is that "disgusting" tends to be used more on the psychological side, while "sickening" tends to be used more on the physiological side. So the question then becomes:
Which definition is better suited for the scenario we're talking about? The one that favors the psychological side? Or the one that favors the physiological side?

I can't think of a strong argument for either one (aside from the above translations), but I feel like there's a slightly stronger argument in favor of the psychological definition, because of my answer to this question:
Based solely on what we know for certain about what has happened at this point in the story and what Asuka is experiencing at this moment, which type of reaction would you be more surprised to not see: a psychological reaction of some kind, or the physiological reaction of feeling sick?

I would say the physiological reaction of feeling sick is something that may or may not happen, but that a psychological reaction of some kind would most certainly happen. Dying horrifically (assuming she's able to remember it—she seems pretty out of it), going through Instrumentality, and being reborn only to find her world in ruin and a close peer of hers strangling her is most definitely enough to cause any number of psychological reactions (such as disgust), but not necessarily the physiological sensation of sickness. Basically, I would be shocked if someone were to go through this without a psychological reaction, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone were to go through this without feeling the physiological sensation of sickness.

As for pregnancy, that strikes me as a pretty wild conspiracy theory.

HARVEST wrote:And, even if you did use "Disgusting..." instead, I think that line felt more complete with a How in the beginning of the line.

I think this is your strongest point in this matter and it's also one I've considered myself. I originally dropped the word "how" from "how disgusting" because I felt that it adds a level of emphasis that surpasses what seems to be implied in the original Japanese. In other words, I thought it would be safer to err on the side of not embellishing. Although it's entirely possible there's some nuance to the Japanese phrase that is simply beyond me (and if anyone can expound on that, please do).

As for "how sickening," that doesn't quite sound like something a native English speaker would say in that moment. Close, but there's something a little off about it. I tried to strike a balance between the literal translation and the closest equivalent to what a native-English speaking person would say.

Again, I appreciate your input, it's just that I had reasons for making the decisions I made. But I welcome you and others to challenge my work by trying to come up with better solutions. Even though I have my reasons for choosing the translation I went with, I'm not set on it.

Does anyone have a different argument in favor of "sickening"? What about preceding it or "disgusting" with the word "how"?

HARVEST wrote:If I save more money, maybe I can buy the pre-Renewal Director's Cut DVDs, and the DTS Collector's Edition of the Feature Film DVD (since, even if the superior DTS track is a remix, at least it has fancier packaging and an option for the original 2.0 mix in Dolby).

The corresponding non-DTS release also has an option for stereo. Are you not aware of that? Or are you saying it's different somehow?
Neon Genesis Evangelion: Digitally Re-Created VHS Subtitles
The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation
Evangelion fan since 1996. Former Eva Mailing List member (late '90s).

HARVEST
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Re: The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation

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Postby HARVEST » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:08 am

View Original PostMjolnir Mark IV wrote:The corresponding non-DTS release also has an option for stereo. Are you not aware of that? Or are you saying it's different somehow?

The Renewal Feature Filml DVDs have the original theatrical Dolby Stereo (or Dolby Surround) mix, whether it's the regular or the DTS release.
Regardless of which version you get, the stereo mixes are the original unaltered mixes, just turn on Dolby Pro Logic and enjoy the audio as it was originally shown in Japan back in '97.
I guess another reason why they added a Dolby Stereo option is because not all DVD players support and/or output DTS audio, so if it only had the DTS remix, it would be silent in some DVD players.
And because the Dolby Stereo mix is unaltered, and many purists would complain if it didn't have the unaltered mix.

The LPCM 2.0 track on the feature film Blu-rays are also the theatrical mixes, which is amazing.
And the Blu-rays for the Feature Films are also unaltered, unlike the TV series.


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