NGE: Episode 05, EVA-00 accident

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NGE: Episode 05, EVA-00 accident

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Postby Jibe » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:48 am

Hi,

I've searched without success but it makes use very generic words so hard to find it:

Why during EVA-00 accident, does Gendo says "I see" to Rei after opening the plug and ensuring she is safe?

Thanks!

Also, Ritsuko seems to have an Idea of the cause of the accident, but doesn't want to tell it. What could it be?
I know the topic has been discussed before and implies Rei I soul in EVA-00 but I'm kind of obsessed to find some answers to these two points.

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Re: NGE: Episode 05, EVA-00 accident

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Postby Lavinius » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:05 am

Regarding Gendou's word, そうか, I assume what the translator means by rendering it thus is a laconic "I see [that you're safe, so it's all alright, isn't it?]".

The cause of the accident certainly lies in Rei II's interaction with Zerogouki's soul. The soul of Zerogouki is likely the indignant, violent, extroverted portion of Rei's soul- let's call it her Id. The part, which, when she was Rei I, led to her death; traumatized, she therefore detached it from herself, placing it into an external weapon.
But why did Zerogouki reject her Ego in the first test and not in the second? What occurs between the tests?
Rei is shown love, by Gendou (as he rushes to help her). Thereafter she loves Gendou, or her love for him which had existed is reconfirmed. But on the escalator her love for Gendou is challenged by Shinji (who from the start also has love for her, though a hesitant one- in episode 1 he agrees to pilot out of shame for Rei's suffering; in episode 2 he recalls her as troubling to his heart as Gendou is). Rei therefore slaps him. Immediately after is the sync test where she is at peace with Zerogouki.
So, she is shown that she is loved, but even moreso the crucial point here, what is right before her reconciliation, is her embrace of violence to defend her filial love. An act of love and violence together, an act of the Id, an opening of her heart to desire and to others. And thus, an reopening to her Id, incarnate in Zerogouki.
Thus, the issue before was something like that Rei II, so traumatized by Rei I's death, so terrified of others (remember that the preview for episode 5 says that Rei avoids contact with others; her isolation is a choice, not the passive effect of some naivity like many seem to assume. Rei is an observant, thoughtful girl), sealed her Id away in Zerogouki, and rejected it when the time for reunion came. Shinji's challenge to her love demanded a response, and so her love gave her a reason to to restore her Id to its proper seat in her heart, to open up to others. And so she was reconciled to the external, othered Id, Zerogouki.
Note also that Rei shows no interest in Shinji at all before he challenges her opinion of their father; but from then on she watches him, converses with him, tries to comfort him through the end of 5 and all through 6. It would seem that his opposition to her awakens her awareness of him as one kin to her and one curiously unlike her, and an interest in him, and, with her desires now recognized rather than universally denied, she opens up to him as best she can.

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Re: NGE: Episode 05, EVA-00 accident

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Postby StrokeMeGoat » Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:27 pm

I can't read the (what I'm assuming is) Hiragana that Lavinius posted and the link unfortunately doesn't display the romanized spelling of the word, but I'm rather sure it's the Japanese word "naruhodo", which is typically translated very simply as "I see". That said, if you're coming at this from the perspective of an English speaker and you watched the English Dub, I can see why you might be a little confused as to why he'd respond with (just) those words.

Lavinius' opening statement pretty much sums up what he means by saying it, but I think understanding that it was just a translation of the original Japanese text with a little background consideration for how Japanese is commonly spoken will make things much more clear. When it comes to Japanese, you'll often find that very simple statements can have a very broad range of meanings based both on the context it's spoken in, and in particular the manner in which the phrase is spoken... along with who it is spoken to (with respect to their position in the social hierarchy with respect to the speaker). Based on the tone and volume of a spoken phrase, it can go from a simple and mechanical acknowledgement of some fact, to respectfully asking or questioning that fact, and even to the equivalent of cussing/swearing at somebody in English. The position someone holds with respect to the speaker matters a lot too, as respect for the authority, superiority, and seniority of one in a position higher than you is taken very seriously, along with knowing where one's place is (when below somebody else).

When it comes to Gendo responding to Rei confirming that she's alright by saying "naruhodo", that's not only the common go to response for acknowledging what somebody says in all manner of situations (even when it is a more serious situation like the Unit-00 berserk incident), but it also happens to be a prime example of how prolific and varied in meaning many Japanese phrases are. Another great example is when Asuka, after being choked by Shinji and caressing his cheek only for him to break down in tears in the aftermath of 3I and HIP, simply states "kimochi warui". Kimochi warui has tons of meanings. When used by pregnant women it can refer specifically to morning sickness, and otherwise more generally it's used to express one's disgust at something, having the feeling of being creeped out by someone or something, feeling odd or strange in an unpleasant/gross way, or to express simply that something felt bad or negative. When literally translated, all it comes out to is "bad feeling".

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Re: NGE: Episode 05, EVA-00 accident

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Postby Lavinius » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:26 pm

View Original PostStrokeMeGoat wrote:"naruhodo"

Gendou says そうか viz. sou ka.

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Re: NGE: Episode 05, EVA-00 accident

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Postby thewayneiac » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:36 pm

View Original PostLavinius wrote:Gendou says そうか viz. sou ka.


"Ka" means it's a question, right? So would "Is that so?" have been a little better than "I see"?
Rejoice, glory is ours. Our young men have not died in vain. Their graves need no flowers. The tapes have recorded their names.
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?

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Re: NGE: Episode 05, EVA-00 accident

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Postby StrokeMeGoat » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:28 pm

View Original PostLavinius wrote:Gendou says そうか viz. sou ka.

Oh, hmm. Well, I suppose what I said about it being a basic acknowledgement still works. Now that I think about it though, I think naruhodo and sou ka are typically used in some what distinct contexts from one another despite having overlap in meaning. Then again, I really have no idea what I'm talking about.

Every time I read sou ka or hear it, I hear it in Saitama's voice and see the still frame of him replying to Lord Boros so dryly with it at the end of the first (well, only) season.
Image

Now I really wonder if Gendo actually did care at all when all I can picture is a totally disinterested "okay" from Saitama when I hear it, lol.

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Re: NGE: Episode 05, EVA-00 accident

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Postby Jibe » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:34 am

Thanks for all your answers. In english subs it's translated using "I see". It matches with the general aknowledgement answer you seem to all point.

It's the french translation that is disturbing, and maybe wrong, and made me ask questions.

It's translated " j'ai compris" it means nothing else that "I understood" thus leading me to ask myself if there could be a deep reflexion/conclusion/analysis made by Gendo behind these words. Finally it seems there is nothing more to expect than the aknowledgement Rei was fine (approximatively).

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Re: NGE: Episode 05, EVA-00 accident

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Postby ACGT-Samael » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:38 am

View Original Postthewayneiac wrote:"Ka" means it's a question, right? So would "Is that so?" have been a little better than "I see"?


Really late to the party but I saw this never got addressed.

"Sou ka" is one of those Japanese phrases with no 1:1 translation in English and which can mean different thinks. Both "is that so" and "I see" can work depending on the context. And given Gendo's character and Anno's love of double meanings, any ambiguity may well be intentional.

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Re: NGE: Episode 05, EVA-00 accident

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Postby Jibe » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:51 am

Just to feed the machine, during the next activation test, everything goes fine, and the only different thing we can see is the fact that Rei did brung gendo's classes on board. The cut clearly insist on that point.


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