Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

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PiersM
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Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

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Postby PiersM » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:48 pm

Hi all!

Something that's been bugging me the more I think about it are Yui's motives. There is, iirc, an article regarding this on the wiki but wondered if anybody had fresh input.

It's mostly from the fact that whilst she exhibits paternal, protective instincts for Shinji — from death, namely, EoE presents a really twisted perspective on things. Presumably everything Unit 01 does, outside of Shinji's, is her control right? If so the things she puts Shinji through absolutely horrifies him and ultimately it's to drift off into space as an eternal relic of mankind. That's not very mother-like. Wouldn't she want Shinji to be safe and happy?

Weirdest of all is…wouldn't this only happen if Shinji rejected instrumentality? Yui never really expresses much emotion beyond being eerily content, like she knows everything is falling to her plan (not unlike Gendo, albeit his outlook is cold and bitter) — it's a little jarring that the final 'meeting' Shinji has with her, and the first and final line is "Will you be all right, my love?"

Shinji's drifting off to a world that's quite literally FUBAR, he could (may?) die of starvation. Nobody may be there to accompany him, until it's Asuka.

It makes me question if she honestly cared for her son beyond giving him a decision on mankind's fate, which given Shinji's busted rationality then (doubled with Asuka Twitter-raging him in the pre-instrumentality bit) is just about the worst idea ever. That isn't right.

Are there lines in NGE that suggest she earnestly cares for Shinji otherwise, and I'm interpreting this in the wrong manner? Or did the 'secret' meeting with Fyutsuki literally explain everything she intended from start to finish? (Given that part is near the end, wondering if that was intended to be the biggest revelation of sorts.)

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Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

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Postby Sachi » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:11 pm

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Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

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Postby pwhodges » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:04 pm

Ultimately NGE and Rebuild are both studies of Shinji’s states of mind. The motivations of those who cause him mental trouble are unimportant, and only need to be clear enough to allow the surrounding story to work adequately.

In my post-Q fic I have Shinji conclude that both his parents were deluded or mad, but that one was more dangerous than the other.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
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Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

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Postby viperzero » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:36 pm

A lot of what Yui does seems to only make sense if 3I is inevitable, which from her dialog seems to be the case (Or at least she seems to think it is) so as horrifying as 3I is, I think thats the best she could do. It had to happen and thats the least awful way. anyway her stated actions seem to be to make the world safe for her son. I don't think much else she does really makes any sense without that. Why give him the control? If he was just a pawn why not control of 3I herself? why does her copy Rei have motherly feelings for Shinji? don't the shows creators want to associate the two? It might be questionable why take him as a young child to the contact experiment but it seems to be important later in the show that Shinji seems to have an unconscious familiarity with Eva 01. At worst I see it as a poor parenting decision (would a young Shinji even know she was "Killed") my $.02

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Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

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Postby Sachi » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:00 am

Here's a perspective that may or may not be relavent;

What if as a parent, you feel a tremendous amount of weight of responsibility for your kid, and to the best of your ability, you try to provide them with the proper tools that you feel they need to live.

Now, what if your world view also leaves you very concerned with the direction of your community, or society, or even humanity as a whole, which you recognize are all dictated by powerful yet corruptable forces such as politics, economics, religion, whatever.

And perhaps you yourself are a paranoid fanatic that believes in an inevitable suffering in the near future that your child will no doubt have to suffer through thanks to the influences of other powers.

And finally what if you also believe also you are in a position of influence to subvert these powers that be, and you use that perceived advantage to influence a series of events that may be very challenging for your kid, but in your eyes will ultimately teach and benefit them in the long run..

..according to your world view.

This sounds like any parent to me, really.
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Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

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Postby PiersM » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:48 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:Here's a perspective that may or may not be relavent;

What if as a parent, you feel a tremendous amount of weight of responsibility for your kid, and to the best of your ability, you try to provide them with the proper tools that you feel they need to live.

Now, what if your world view also leaves you very concerned with the direction of your community, or society, or even humanity as a whole, which you recognize are all dictated by powerful yet corruptable forces such as politics, economics, religion, whatever.

And perhaps you yourself are a paranoid fanatic that believes in an inevitable suffering in the near future that your child will no doubt have to suffer through thanks to the influences of other powers.

And finally what if you also believe also you are in a position of influence to subvert these powers that be, and you use that perceived advantage to influence a series of events that may be very challenging for your kid, but in your eyes will ultimately teach and benefit them in the long run..

..according to your world view.

This sounds like any parent to me, really.

You're right, that's a good perspective — think it was implied (??) that Seele were after Yui, and might be why she never came 'out' of Unit 01, in terms of corruptible forces. Maybe her long term goal was also to get Seele out of the picture, particularly how seemingly old their committee was.
Even then, she still leaves Shinji in a world that's in an incredibly bad state. The one possible up-swing is that the manga portrayed the Earth as being back to a healthy form, and so it could possibly be the case there (If her explanation that all life returning with an AT Field isn't exclusive to humans). Then again, the manga also transitions from quasi-dream state right to present day — and Shinji partially looses his memory.

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Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

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Postby pwhodges » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:48 pm

The combination of "paranoid fanatic" and "position of influence" doesn't sound like just "any parent" to me!
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
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Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

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Postby Sachi » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:13 pm

Sure it does. All people hold positions of influence in one way or another, and this is especially true of the parent, who influences their child's upbringing, the institutions they're sent to, etc. Note also that I was careful with my words by clarifying that they "believe" to be in a position of influence, regardless of how true that may be.

By paranoia, I'm furthering the premise that parents feel a weight or responsibility for their child's future, and how many parents are frightened of the future their child will have to endure, and they look to see to what extent they can influence this for the better, in spite of the world. Again, they look for ways in which they believe they have influence over this.
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Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

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Postby pwhodges » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:34 am

More enlightened parents seek to prepare their children to handle whatever the world might throw at them (they can't anticipate what will come after they are gone). They do not selfishly attempt to modify the world for the convenience of their children (though they may, for instance if politically minded, attempt to improve it for everyone).
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: Why do I have to deal with these Titans as well as Angels? (details); Past avatars.
Can't wait for 3.0+1.0? - try Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

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Re: Was Yui nearly as bad as Gendo?

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Postby StrokeMeGoat » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:50 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:More enlightened parents seek to prepare their children to handle whatever the world might throw at them. They do not selfishly attempt to modify the world for the convenience of their children
Indeed. It is generally wisest to seek primarily not to change the world itself to be easier to handle or deal with, but instead to change one's self to become strong enough to to handle and deal with the world. That is the more effective and healthy way to approach things, and as a parent it's especially imperative to realize this and to let one's children fail, get back up, experience things for themselves, and find their own way. Otherwise, they're doomed to much worse failure. hardship, and an inability to cope with reality than any of the short term failures and hardships that all parents wish they could protect their children from having to endure.

Regarding the OP, I feel it's rather short sighted to see remaining in the Eva for all of time to be eternal proof of humanity's existence as her ultimate final goal, it was simply one that among many. Her largest goal was saving humanity as a whole (to remain as individual people) and to remove the looming threat of any future impacts or Angel attacks for her progeny and the rest of humanity, while choosing ultimately to remain in the Eva in the process of that (which her plan for it all pretty much required it anyway). To remain in the Eva, given it was required to successfully achieve her desire for her son and humanity's future survival was more of a sacrifice she made rather than something she really seemed to desire and lust after as a goal.


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