Godzilla & Kaiju General!

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed May 23, 2018 9:12 pm

Godzilla 1998 is fine as a dumb knockoff of Jurassic Park. Not counting the first anime film, the worst Godzilla movie from what I’ve seen is Final Wars. That was a never ending piece of nonsense.

In other news, because Warner Brothers SIX BILLION DOLLAR MAN movie (uh, sure) just lost its director they’ve shuffled around some of their big release dates to make sure they have a tent pole film coming out every few months. Godzilla: King of the Monsters has been pushed back two months to May 31st, 2019.
That is all.

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Postby Chuckman » Thu May 24, 2018 7:20 pm

I once heard someone say (maybe here?) that 'Zill '98 is the worst Godzilla movie ever made, but it's a passable-to-good remake of The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri May 25, 2018 6:16 am

^ That was me, in this thread. I mean, the monsters are basically the same. There's more of an iguana influence to the monster design, rather than a fat, heavy, upright, 50's-era dinosaur model influence to it. Both Zilla and Beast like to stay on the main roads and only smoosh cars and cause, with few exception, only light damage to the surrounding structures. (Zilla never once topples over a skyscraper in the 1998 film. But the military sure does.) They are both portrayed as mere animals rather than suspicious-looking gods of destruction. And the main concern of the Beast/Zilla narrative is how the authorities will safely handle the monster, and cares precious little to tackling the hubris of humanity and their thirst for destruction, as explored in Godzilla.

Zilla is very much another Beast film, not another Godzilla film.

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Godzilla 1998 is fine as a dumb knockoff of Jurassic Park. Not counting the first anime film, the worst Godzilla movie from what I’ve seen is Final Wars. That was a never ending piece of nonsense.

I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that the film was nothing more than an updated homage to all of the older Showa-Era Godilla movies from the 50's - 70's. It's a big, loud, dumb (but for me, also fun) send off to a monster that the studio was gonna leave alone for an unforeseeable future. It's Godzilla meme fodder. I enjoyed it, but I can see why others can't. Heck, I didn't even like it at first. It wasn't until I rewatched all of the other ones before I finally gained appreciation for what it was.

That, and there's something satisfying about Japanese Godzilla kicking the crap outta American Zilla. It just felt so good!

I don't know about Zilla being a coherent Jurassic Park knockoff. A good Jurassic Park knockoff would at least explore the ethics of cloning and human's desire to become God through their achievements in science. Simply having dinosaurs and modern people in the same setting doesn't count enough to be uniquely Jurassic Park. I mean, I've seen the same thing in The Valley of Gwangi, or the comic book series The Xenozoic Tales (known better as Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, which is the dinosaur film adaptation we really need these days.) But, then again, Emmerich isn't known for making good knockoffs of things, is he...

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri May 25, 2018 7:20 am

Coherent or not, the 30 minutes or so the movie spent in Madison Square Garden with the humans avoiding an army of Velociraptor sized baby Godzillas is 100% a Jurassic Park imitation.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri May 25, 2018 10:19 am

I can’t deny that. To be fair, in a Hollywood landscape that curiously refrained from making a whole slough Jurassic Park rip-offs and simply resorted to sequels, Emmerich’s Godzilla film was the only one that dared to mimic specific scenes as much as it did without satire or parody.

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Postby Chuckman » Fri May 25, 2018 5:10 pm

It is weird how the only dinosaurish movies of the 90's were Jurassic Park, the straight to video Carnosaur series, and G '99.

The obsession with Jurassic Park in Godzilla's marketing is really bizarre in retrospect. It's like the marketing department was at a loss for something actually interesting about the movie to sell to people.

I still wonder how Emmerich made such a shitty movie after giving us Stargate and Independence Day, then went on to make The Patriot.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat May 26, 2018 5:59 pm

On the Hollywood side of things, I think the main advertising aspect of JP was utilizing very expensive technology at the time to create the dinosaur special effects. Emmerich might have been the only one who could pull the finances needed to secure a non-Spielberg, non-JP dino-esque film with Godzilla. (And the effects still didn’t look as good.) I think Emmerich is overrated and uninspired, but his Zilla movie is certainly his worst by a long shot.

On the home-video premiere side of things, Roger Corman was simply a national treasure with the exact amount of empathy needed to crank out whatever whenever however. Of course he would make a JP rip-off like none other.

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Postby silvermoonlight » Sun May 27, 2018 12:20 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:On the Hollywood side of things, I think the main advertising aspect of JP was utilizing very expensive technology at the time to create the dinosaur special effects. Emmerich might have been the only one who could pull the finances needed to secure a non-Spielberg, non-JP dino-esque film with Godzilla. (And the effects still didn’t look as good.) I think Emmerich is overrated and uninspired, but his Zilla movie is certainly his worst by a long shot.

On the home-video premiere side of things, Roger Corman was simply a national treasure with the exact amount of empathy needed to crank out whatever whenever however. Of course he would make a JP rip-off like none other.


I wish the 1994 Godzilla vs. The Gryphon had been made as when ever I read about it, it sounds way better than Zilla and it was much truer to the source and didn't use the JP thing to sell the movie.

http://www.kaijuphile.com/rodansroost/scrapyard/godzillavsgryphon.shtml
http://www.scifijapan.com/articles/2015/05/10/godzilla-unmade-the-history-of-jan-de-bonts-unproduced-tristar-film-part-1/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL1Z-a8Vjio&ab_channel=FlameKing
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Postby Chuckman » Sun May 27, 2018 5:00 pm

Does Emmerich get enough praise to be called overrated?

He's directed something like 13 movies since 1990 and only 3 of them are any good.

edit: IMDB says they're making another Independence Day Jesus Christ.
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Postby movieartman » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:01 am

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:I wish the 1994 Godzilla vs. The Gryphon had been made as when ever I read about it, it sounds way better than Zilla and it was much truer to the source and didn't use the JP thing to sell the movie.

http://www.kaijuphile.com/rodansroost/scrapyard/godzillavsgryphon.shtml
http://www.scifijapan.com/articles/2015/05/10/godzilla-unmade-the-history-of-jan-de-bonts-unproduced-tristar-film-part-1/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL1Z-a8Vjio&ab_channel=FlameKing

I like the 98 G film a good amount (and I like the animated sequel series a lot more)
But I can't describe how much I agree that it was misstep to throw this project away. (Be sure to check out the further parts of that sci-fi Japan article. There is 4 pages total)

And Stan Winston doing a Kajiu film's effects would have been incredible. The suit he made for the project before it's cancelation was superb as was the Gryphon.
Make the legs a bit bigger so they don't seem so far apart and it would be among the best G designs of the franchise.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/god ... dzilla.jpg

The only thing that might have possibly turned people off was changing Godzilla's origin to basically the same origin as the 90s incarnation of Gamera.

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Postby Chuckman » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:21 pm

I think the failing of that design and the '98 design was trying to make Godzilla look too much like a natural animal. He should look a little weird.

Part of what I think made the '14 version work was that the designed him as a 400 foot tall creature rather than trying to scale up a natural animal look, in addition to basing his movements on large land predators.
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Postby Blockio » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:22 pm

I have watched bpoth Pacific Rim movies just the pther day.
First one had pretty much everything I like about mecha, and has immediately become one of my favoprite movies in general.

Uprising... not so much.
SPOILER: Show
I think my main complaints are that
1) the action has lost all of its impact. What I mean is that in the original, every movement of a Jaeger felt like there was a massive mechanical beast stepping right in front of you, while in Uprising they look like a visually polished Power Rangers battle more than anything
2) the movie completely drops the aspect of trauma and comradery that greatly helped in making the first movie feel real and
3) that it tries to go into far too many directions at once, and ultimately fails to accomplish any of them
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Postby ComradeMisato » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:16 pm

Yeah, speaking as someone who adored the first Pacific Rim, Uprising is an absolute travesty. Leading up to the release I remember people wondering why GDT wasn't saying anything about it; upon seeing it it instantly made sense. Both the quality and the themes/subtext of the final film make it pretty clear his name was attached only due to Pacific Rim being a property he was responsible for.
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Postby VUX » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:34 pm

The idea of Kaiju-Jeager hybrids came off as interesting. That’s because it takes the saying “we created monsters of our own” quite literally, as jeagers, if placed in the wrong hands, can fulfill the exact same purpose as kaiju, being used for destruction.
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Postby Blockio » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:09 pm

View Original PostVUX wrote:The idea of Kaiju-Jeager hybrids came off as interesting. That’s because it takes the saying “we created monsters of our own” quite literally, as jeagers, if placed in the wrong hands, can fulfill the exact same purpose as kaiju, being used for destruction.

The movie had a lot of promising ideas. But if you try going for everything at once, you will ultimately fail on all ends.
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Postby VUX » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:39 pm

I hated the idea of Newton becoming a villain, I thought he was funny in the first film, but came of as a complete dough bag in the second, I felt like they took would made his character in the first film and stomped on it.
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Postby Chuckman » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:43 pm

Pacific Rim 2 is the American adaptation of Pacific Rim.
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Postby VUX » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:41 pm

Than what country is Pacific Rim from?
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Postby Chuckman » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:10 pm

I was suggesting, metaphorically, that Pacific Rim is true to its anime/kaiju film/mecha influences and the dip in quality in the sequel is as if Americans tried to replicate it with the same fidelity that they brought over the feel of Ghost in the Shell, Dragonball, Godzilla (in 1998) etc.
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Postby Guy Nacks » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:53 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:I was suggesting, metaphorically, that Pacific Rim is true to its anime/kaiju film/mecha influences and the dip in quality in the sequel is as if Americans tried to replicate it with the same fidelity that they brought over the feel of Ghost in the Shell, Dragonball, Godzilla (in 1998) etc.


I know I've said this before, but it's still funny to me that the most successful (critically and financially) American adaptation of a Japan-sourced anime or manga is a Tom Cruise film.

One does wonder what would happen if the show were on the other foot, and a Japanese film production company was trying to adapt quintessentially American properties, namely Marvel and DC comics.
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