Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby robersora » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:34 am

DarliFra continues to be a blessing. It is super entertaining and easy to watch from a moment to moment basis, which elevates it above ~70% of the usual Anime fare. It's also really sparkly and beautiful. But I still hesitate to call it "good".

Aesthetically it is extremely derivative of Evangelion and Diebuster (now there was also a FLCL hand), without really adding anything to it. But I don't mind, I really love the aesthetic.
Especially the fights are extremely cool to watch.

Thematically, I'm still not really sure what it's striving for...? I get a feeling that it wants to sell us a kind of sexist view of the world? I don't really mind that - it is pretty en vogue, after all, with the rise of the alt-right and identitarian movements and whatnot. So good on them for marketing. I'm not really sure where I fit into this narrative as a gay person - but if they don't wanna shoot me for existing, I don't really care if the show treats its female cast like submissive housewivey fuckdolls that live to please a strong man.
I mean Ichigo FINALLY came to her senses - how dare she had her own selfish motivations! Finally she submitted to the will of the one man that counts, because that's true love. Also, now that she finally knows her place Hiro can magically finally handle her in a FrankXXX. I guess all that talk about how he is unable to be a pilot because he licked ZeroTwo is now out of the window?
I also liked how ZeroTwo and Hiro screamed each other while embracing, giving them the power to plow through thousands of Klaxos.
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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby El Squibbonator » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:55 am

Speaking of the show's Evangelion references, here's one I don't think you guys picked up on.
So you know how, before Hiro pilots it, Strelitiza has more animalistic, feline shape? Now take a look at Asuka's "Nyangouki" Beast Mode from the third movie and tell me you don't see it. Asuka's unit is even numbered 02!
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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger) B/

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Postby Alaska Slim » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:53 am

View Original Postrobersora wrote:So good on them for marketing. I'm not really sure where I fit into this narrative as a gay person

You can't pilot Giant robots, Ikuno -- unless you feign interest. Otherwise, you're turned into kibble for the adults. :devil:

- but if they don't wanna shoot me for existing, I don't really care if the show treats its female cast like submissive housewivey fuckdolls that live to please a strong man.

Oh, you didn't see the 9's duos? Looks like for some of them, the male is the robot, and the women are the "stamens".

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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:59 am

View Original Postrobersora wrote:Thematically, I'm still not really sure what it's striving for...? I get a feeling that it wants to sell us a kind of sexist view of the world?
I mean Ichigo FINALLY came to her senses - how dare she had her own selfish motivations! Finally she submitted to the will of the one man that counts, because that's true love.


I'm spoiling my response because there are small spoilers for episode 15 in it.

SPOILER: Show
I still don't get how the show is sexist. Because only a man and woman pair can pilot? That's just been proven wrong. Even if only that specific pair could pilot, I don't get how that would be sexist.

Also, Ichigo nearly murdered all her friends and the one she loves because of her selfishness. In no way was she in the right. She "submitted" in the sense that she now respects the decisions of Hiro and 02.

And I have no idea what the mentions to alt-right even mean. I doubt Japan is particularly affected by that nonsense. I mean what?
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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby robersora » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:27 am

View Original PostEl Squibbonator wrote:Speaking of the show's Evangelion references, here's one I don't think you guys picked up on.
So you know how, before Hiro pilots it, Strelitiza has more animalistic, feline shape? Now take a look at Asuka's "Nyangouki" Beast Mode from the third movie and tell me you don't see it. Asuka's unit is even numbered 02!


I'm not sure, if you're trolling, but you could put half the show into the Evangelion References thread, and there's references en mass that are more subtle and might have been missed by some. So I'm not really sure why you've chosen to point this one out in particular.

Anyways, I wanted to add, that what I like most about the show that it makes me smile relentlessy. Either because it's pretty, or it's so brash in stealing imagery or even whole scenes or relishing in really over the top Anime-melodrama-bullshit (but in a fun way). Also it is super competent at story telling making the show never a chore to sit through. Another good thing is that they try to keep the mumbo-jumbo minimal, focusing on characters and human emotions which is THE thing most Sci-Fi shows mess up.
DarliFra is weird, I definitely cannot shrug it off. It doesn't leave me cold. It just makes me sad, that the average quality of Anime is so low that something that manages to not completely incompetent in every regard is the best we get.
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My responses to Justacrazyguy is in the Spoilertab.
SPOILER: Show
View Original PostJustacrazyguy wrote:I still don't get how the show is sexist. Because only a man and woman pair can pilot? That's just been proven wrong. Even if only that specific pair could pilot, I don't get how that would be sexist.

I mean yes, but the only ones that can deny the status quo are framed as being supremely off/borderline evil. Maybe it's just staunch conservatism - the closing statement of Episode 15 implied that the only way people can be happy in forming male-female relationships.

Also, Ichigo nearly murdered all her friends and the one she loves because of her selfishness. In no way was she in the right. She "submitted" in the sense that she now respects the decisions of Hiro and 02.

Yes that's the plot, but that's not the interesting question. The interesting question is, how the plot is written to accommodate these tropes and make them seem sensical. While generally acknowledging the tribulations of non-conformist people, the show generally chooses to resolve their conflicts by the realization that they just need to deal with being different in toning down their abnormalities.
Ichigo's whole arc is resolved in staying in line and cheering the couple she should despise on. And she is somehow happy with it? It's also kinda sad, that they could have explored her conflicting feelings but chose to just let her get back in line. Same with the lesbian and gay guy get their little Episode but in the end they get no resolution besides them realizing that they should just conform.


And I have no idea what the mentions to alt-right even mean. I doubt Japan is particularly affected by that nonsense. I mean what?

I was being facetious.
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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:02 pm

Response to robersora in spoilers.

SPOILER: Show
the closing statement of Episode 15 implied that the only way people can be happy in forming male-female relationships.


I took that to be specific to Hiro and 02, not a universal statement. The show has gay characters, why would it apply to everyone? Granted, it could turn out that said gay characters have to deny their nature in the end, but we don't know yet. They conform now, in difficult situations, but they may be able to get out of that spot eventually.


Ichigo's whole arc is resolved in staying in line and cheering the couple she should despise on. And she is somehow happy with it? It's also kinda sad, that they could have explored her conflicting feelings but chose to just let her get back in line. Same with the lesbian and gay guy get their little Episode but in the end they get no resolution besides them realizing that they should just conform.


She isn't happy, but she had no choice. Her relationship with Hiro wasn't sustainable. Yeah, that only happens because the writers made it so, but why would it be different? Ichigo having to deal with the situation not going her way is far more interesting than having stuck with Hiro and somehow having made it work. She's conforming, but it's positive. Being different and struggling again't the desires of others isn't always the right thing. The show juggles both aspects: in this case Ichigo conforming is positive, but the kids conforming to the adults is negative, it doesn't go only one way.

About the gay guy and his partner. I'm assuming that they will eventually have to deal with their situations in their own way. I'd be surprised if they were just ignored for the rest of the anime. If they are ignored I'll be disappointed.
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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby El Squibbonator » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:21 pm

View Original Postrobersora wrote:I'm not sure, if you're trolling, but you could put half the show into the Evangelion References thread, and there's references en mass that are more subtle and might have been missed by some. So I'm not really sure why you've chosen to point this one out in particular.


Mostly because I’ve seen other similarities pointed out on other sites, but never that one. I do agree with you, though, that the show’s “happy relationship= man+woman” message keeps me from enjoying it as much as I otherwise might.
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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:28 pm

View Original PostEl Squibbonator wrote:Speaking of the show's Evangelion references
I can't find the relevant images just right now, but I've seen a number of compilations of DarliFra scenes matched with other anime, including Evangelion (and Violet Evergarden, and Eureka 7 Deadman Wonderland). And this episode, the view from orbit showed a scene not that different to the opening of Q.

EDIT: Here's some

SPOILER: Show
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Image
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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby amitakartok » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:26 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Not Asuka
Image


I pointed that out to someone back in the day myself, though he didn't see the resemblance until I told him to look at Miku with her hair let down in the NSFW episode. That's a closer match because Miku puts her whole 'do into twintails, not just a small part of it like Asuka. Lose the twintails and Miku immediately looks like Asuka with an ahoge and slightly different shade of hair.
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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby pwhodges » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:54 pm

View Original PostEl Squibbonator wrote:Speaking of the show's Evangelion references, here's one I don't think you guys picked up on.
So you know how, before Hiro pilots it, Strelitiza has more animalistic, feline shape? Now take a look at Asuka's "Nyangouki" Beast Mode from the third movie and tell me you don't see it. Asuka's unit is even numbered 02!

The danger of that happening had actually been mentioned in a previous episode, so it wasn’t that great a surprise. It’s also unlike the Eva case because it is not a commanded response but a reaction to Zero Two’s descent into bestiality.
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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby El Squibbonator » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:51 pm

I wasn't trying to say it had the same in-story meaning. Just that it looked similar, and was probably a visual reference to the Evangelion Beast Mode.
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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby cyharding » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:58 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Not Q
Image[/spoiler]


To me, the design of that ship reminds me of the Atlantian aerial battleships from Nadia, so there's another reference there.

I have some things I want to write regarding the discussion about the nature of the male/female relationships some of you have been taking part in, but I want to get my thoughts in order before I do. I'm not good at tying on here on the fly. I hope that's okay.

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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby Shinji Ikari Expy » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:24 pm

I'm going to keep watching to see what happens, but here's my first impression of Ep 15: it was really disappointing. I found the concept of the show intriguing at first, but it's just taken a turn into melodrama and anime cliches. I can't tell you exactly what I was expecting, but I was hoping for something different from every shonen/action series from the past 15 years.

The idea behind "Darling in the Franxx" was pretty good because you could use the sci-fi/mecha setting to explore a central theme: the gulf between the sexes, and the ways that people bridge that gulf, in sort of the same way that Eva uses its story to examine social isolation and the hedgehog's dilemma. It's an important topic, too, since gender relations are so strained, especially in Japan.

"Franxx" has a chance to do something meaningful here, but so far, it's yet another story about a clueless, uncharismatic boy falling in love with a magical/demon girl (who is actually his FORGOTTEN CHILDHOOD FRIEND™ and with whom he shares a DARK AND TRAGIC PAST™ ) and being orbited by a harem of women who fight for his attention for no discernible reason.

I guess the secret to understanding and connecting with the woman you love is to share a traumatic childhood memory with her and then recover the memory when you guys meet again years later? Thanks, Darling in the Franxx!

On top of that, they ended Ep. 15 with another homage to the Evangelion Rebuild movies, making the whole thing seem even less original.

Since we've still got a few episodes left, I'd like to give it a chance. Maybe they are intentionally setting up the audience for a twist in the final third of the series that will turn our expectations upside down. Hopefully that is the case and I will happily eat my words.

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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby pwhodges » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:15 am

View Original PostShinji Ikari Expy wrote:so far, it's yet another story about a clueless, uncharismatic boy falling in love with a magical/demon girl (who is actually his FORGOTTEN CHILDHOOD FRIEND™ and with whom he shares a DARK AND TRAGIC PAST™ ) and being orbited by a harem of women who fight for his attention for no discernible reason.

I guess the secret to understanding and connecting with the woman you love is to share a traumatic childhood memory with her and then recover the memory when you guys meet again years later?

Nice summary of Elfen Lied. But not quite right here as Hiro was the questioning leader of the children, not the loser you portray.

But I can’t yet see what this show is trying to say, other than being a reasonably engrossing dramatic story. They’ve not actually used the gender roles and mild fanservice to say anything about them. So I’m just enjoying it as a simple post-apocalyptic distopia, and waiting for the various revelations to unfold, such as what are the adults (who we’re told have been backed up and can be freed from their bodies); where do the children come from (supplementary question: what were those embryos); same for the 9s (if not human what are they) - and if Zero Two is a 9, how does she differ from the other 9s (and for that matter, how does Hiro differ from the other children, even before he licked Zero Two’s blood).

We’re still very far from really having any idea what’s going on.

Oh, and homages and story similarities aren’t necessarily that bad a thing; they were good enough for Shakespeare...
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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:39 am

View Original PostShinji Ikari Expy wrote:it's yet another story about a clueless, uncharismatic boy falling in love with a magical/demon girl (who is actually his FORGOTTEN CHILDHOOD FRIEND™ and with whom he shares a DARK AND TRAGIC PAST™ )
I've seen a quote of a quote of an interview with Nishigori (so trust this as much as you feel it's worth), in which he stated to the effect that he was doing Franxx "because his guilty pleasure was that he wanted to be seduced by a bad girl transfer student" -- which puts a new spin on it being his "passion project".

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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby kuribo-04 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:36 am

"because his guilty pleasure was that he wanted to be seduced by a bad girl transfer student"

...
Well, he seems like somebody who'd do stuff for fanservice's sake.
I own his artbook "Telegenic!" (It's mostly good) and there was a lot more, let's call it "pervy art", than I expected (nothing pornographic though).
So yeah, I kind of expected this going into Franxx.

I don't think the show is being sexist or anything, it seems to me like he is kinda telling a story that happened to him, and to me it seems like the girls are just in love with Hiro, they are there to please him just as much as you'd expect from people in love, and he does the same for Zero Two. Now the romance writing here isn't perfect, but I don't thing it's doing anything wrong in a big manner, and some moments (Ichigo last week) I think are pretty great.

What does feel a little weird is how they fall for Hiro despite him almost not showing any personality, but whatever.

As for gay characters, I think Mitsuru might have feelings for Hiro as well.
And that Kaworu-clone will be gay because Evangelion.
Yeah it would be nice to have a larger scope of relationships, let's see if the show goes for it.
Also the girl that used to pilot with Mitsuru has feelings for Ichigo I think.
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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby pwhodges » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:19 am

Don’t forget that Hiro was the clear leader of the group originally, and their feelings for him are grounded in that. His naming them was a significant part of that too. His apparent betrayal of Mitsuru was actually because some of his memories, including his promise, were removed after he met (and named) Zero Two.
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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:30 am

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:And that Kaworu-clone will be gay because Evangelion.
9 Alpha(-Omega Nova)? Gay?
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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby kuribo-04 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:01 pm

I look forward to it. ;)
And yeah, this is the second Trigger Kaworu clone!
Can't complain about more like him.
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Re: Darling in the Franxx (Studio Trigger)

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Postby Blockio » Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:35 pm

Bit of an unpopular opinion here, I actually think the romance scenes are really well done, and on top of that more realistic than most other romance (sub-)plots in recent memory: Instead of "Ohmygosh I love you" - "Sorry, but I love another girl" - "k thx bye", actually having the characters trying to achieve their goals after being rejected makes it feel so much more, well, realistic to me.

Shinji Ikari Expy wrote:I'm going to keep watching to see what happens, but here's my first impression of Ep 15: it was really disappointing.

huh... thats actually the exact opposite of my initial impression of the episode... if I had to pick one episode that really makes everything I love about this series shine, it would definitely be Ep 15 (weird wording, I know... but after 10 minutes of re-writing this over and over again, I couldnt come up with a better way to put it)
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