Why I Don't Like Mari

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Re: Why I Don't Like Mari

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:14 am

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:Rebuild is already filled with meta commentary I'd argue. 3.0 specifically (which imo is the best of the three, let's agree to disagree on that) seems to target RahXephon specifically (an online pal of mine could go more in-depth) to show how post-Eva works just took Eva's aesthetics to create more power fantasies (hence Shinji's shonen moment at the end of 2.0, which is where the RahXephon commentary starts, destroying the world, and Shinji (not) being able to redo things in the third installment, which would have been another wish fulfillment fantasy). The Wille staff has uniforms similar to RahXephons even.

Interesting. I'd need more evidence to be convinced but it's an interesting theory.

Also...
RahXephon

let's call it what it really is
Discount NGE

It's literally a boring NGE copy. And they weren't even inconspicuous about it either. They even copied the water drop animation. :facepalm:
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Re: Why I Don't Like Mari

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Postby Cybermat47 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:23 am

I like Mari so far, but I think that we’re going to have to wait until Final before I can fully judge her.

I’m also interested in seeing exactly how she’ll “destroy Eva”.
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Re: Why I Don't Like Mari

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Postby pwhodges » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:36 am

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:It's literally a boring NGE copy.

Well, you're certainly consistent. I mean, if you view RahXephon as an NGE ripoff, I guess you're bound to see Rebuild the same way.

I prefer not to hold such broad-brush views, but to look at things in their own light as far as possible - and in particular, to accept that influences, or even homage, are not the same as rip-off.
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Re: Why I Don't Like Mari

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:26 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Well, you're certainly consistent. I mean, if you view RahXephon as an NGE ripoff, I guess you're bound to see Rebuild the same way.

Not really. Rebuild starts out telling NGE's story with variations and then diverges. RahXephon acts as if it is its own story but rip offs NGE for dialogue, plot, characterization, and thematic significance from beginning to end.

Rebuild isn't a ripoff, its a retelling. RahXephon is just a ripoff.
to accept that influences, or even homage, are not the same as rip-off.

My views aren't "broad-brush", I differentiate between inspired work and copied work. It's a shame that Xephon is the latter and not the former.
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Re: Why I Don't Like Mari

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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:47 am

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:RahXephon
We have threads for that.
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Re: Why I Don't Like Mari

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Postby Cybermat47 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:58 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:We have threads for that.


To be fair, posting in the most recent one of those threads would be necroing a thread that died five years ago.
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Re: Why I Don't Like Mari

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Postby kuribo-04 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:59 am

I'll actually get back to this pal of mine, he knew more about this.
I think it would deserve its own topic then.
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Re: Why I Don't Like Mari

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Postby kuribo-04 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:51 pm

Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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Re: Why I Don't Like Mari

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Postby ACGT-Samael » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:05 pm

Mari may well be the most frustrating character in the entire franchise for me, not because of who she is or what she does but because of the way she's used - or, more accurately, how she ISN'T used.

She's really something like an anomaly in that she's the first Eva pilot who isn't despondent, detached or putting on a front (Asuka's bravado largemouth being for show, Kaworu apparently being so existentially unhappy he's slit his wrists multiple times), and seems to legitimately enjoy herself. She's not altogether sane, given how much she seems to enjoy battle and how she's prone to manic Rage, but it's hard to argue she's got Hollow mess Shinji seems reduced to at times.

If a character like her was used in NGE, where the Soul of the Mother rule held, she'd be a great catalyst for Shinji and Rei, possibly even Asuka, to introspect in a very different way. Here’s a girl who's been through a shitty life much like their's, but hasn't imploded information a ball of self loathing. She is, for all intents and purposes, happy, and that means they could also be happy.

Used in the right role, Mari would become an anti-Asuka where instead of exacerbating Shinji's angst she represents an end to the sadness, and not using her for that is probably my greatest knock against her.

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Postby kuribo-04 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:09 pm

Kaworu apparently being so existentially unhappy he's slit his wrists multiple times

Keep in mind this was only the case in one of the draft for episode 24. Not necessarily in the show.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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Re: Why I Don't Like Mari

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:40 pm

View Original PostACGT-Samael wrote:Mari may well be the most frustrating character in the entire franchise for me, not because of who she is or what she does but because of the way she's used - or, more accurately, how she ISN'T used.

She's really something like an anomaly in that she's the first Eva pilot who isn't despondent, detached or putting on a front (Asuka's bravado largemouth being for show, Kaworu apparently being so existentially unhappy he's slit his wrists multiple times), and seems to legitimately enjoy herself. She's not altogether sane, given how much she seems to enjoy battle and how she's prone to manic Rage, but it's hard to argue she's got Hollow mess Shinji seems reduced to at times.

Well, her desensitization to violence is her is her foible, she's no more perfect than the rest of them, and I say this as an ardent Mari fan. Asuka may enjoy battle, but she does it to prove how good she is (I believe Soryu and Shikinami share this trait). She's turned whatever has happened in her life so far inward, that when a battle comes, she lets all her rage out in a controlled, yet extreme, way. Remember, she loves LCL's smell, which has been proven to smell like blood. And with how she acts under those conditions, she has a very deep well of anger and hatred to tap into, but she just happens to act a bit odd the rest of the time, most likely to cope with her anger by making jokes all the time. She may be more mature in not letting her emotions get the best of her under normal circumstances, but she still has her problems.
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Postby BlueBasilisk » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:26 pm

Mari would have been best served in a post N3I story like the one the 2.22 teaser proposed. As Kaji's subordinate she knows many secrets and has certain freedoms that other characters don't which makes her a critical ally to the good guys and a big liability to the likes of Seele. In 3.0 a lot of these secrets are out in the open so her inside information isn't as critical as it used to be, so her value shifts to her piloting skill and being a foil and companion to Asuka.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:55 pm

Well, it would be nice to see a movie about the 14 year gap. A story without Shinji can be done, seeing as we know they eventually go and rescue him anyway, and the other characters in the NTE continuity can have some solid characterization, including Mari who desperately needs it.
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Postby Blockio » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:24 am

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:Well, it would be nice to see a movie about the 14 year gap. A story without Shinji can be done, seeing as we know they eventually go and rescue him anyway, and the other characters in the NTE continuity can have some solid characterization, including Mari who desperately needs it.

Very much so. Plus, there is bound to be epic imagery involved.
And when Final comes out, it is this in between movie and the ending of Q is the canon end to the series
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:39 am

Everybody talks about why they don't like Mari but no one asks the other important question - Does Mari like you?

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Postby Joseki » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:20 pm

Things Mari likes:

- Evas
- LCL's smell
- Princess
- Puppy
- Princess and Puppy as a couple

I don't think she would find us very interesting sadly.
Last edited by Joseki on Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:24 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Everybody talks about why they don't like Mari but no one asks the other important question - Does Mari like you?

She's my waifu, of course she likes me :marihearts:
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:23 pm

I would be happy if Mari found me fun to hang around with.

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Postby kuribo-04 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:13 am

I think Mari feels general love towards people.
Also glad y'all are asking the important questions.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
"In any case, it (Kill la Kill) is the greatest work of fiction ever written and should be taught in schools." -Squigsquasher
~('.'~) (~'.')~ Dancin Kirby

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Re: Why I Don't Like Mari

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Postby Blockio » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:33 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:I think Mari feels general love towards people.
Also glad y'all are asking the important questions.

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I would be happy if Mari found me fun to hang around with.

I actually know quite a few people who fall under the same personality type as Mari... great fun to have around, and things are physically impossible to get boring
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ sadly not Mari in Q (Joseki)

What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu


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