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Postby AngelNo13Bardiel » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:00 pm

^ Actually, that sounds quite interesting. I may just have to look into it sometime.

View Original Postamitakartok wrote:There's not that much competition, actually. For one, Rei's not the type to do any kind of clingy wannabe girlfriend stuff you see in harem anime.

For another, remember that they're in their early twenties here, which means no hormonal impulsive teenage crap. Shinji didn't change all that much from having seven extra years under his belt, but Asuka noticeably grew out of her overemotional drama queen stage and now just plain doesn't give a damn about anything most of the time because she stopped deluding herself that anyone cares and had too many experience with guys who only cared that she was a pretty face with nice boobs. She ain't gonna be anyone's trophy, no way, no how, even if it means staying single for the rest of her life - not that she wants that to happen, mind you.

That and spending her entire childhood training is one thing, but childhood, teenage years and early adult years too? She's bored and disillusioned as fuck and by the time the Angels finally show up, she privately started doubting if it was even worth it. She never had any ambitions beyond piloting but now that the Angels are here, it also means that the day of the Angels' defeat is also drawing near, which in turn means the days of her being a pilot are numbered. She's got nowhere to go afterwards, nothing to do with herself, and is beginning to wonder what's the point of even living anymore. It's the kind of chronic depression that drives people to alcohol or drugs, but Asuka hasn't quite gotten to that point yet.


And this (along with the other stuff related to it you mentioned above) also sounds like something I would definitely read and enjoy. It's certainly a thread worth pulling, that much is clear.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:09 pm

View Original Postamitakartok wrote:Rei, but she really is not his girlfriend (or anyone's, for that matter).

And the trick I'm pulling with Kaworu is that although he starts out human, he gradually slides back to something more like his canon personality by the end. Although the story has amusing moments like the above, it is very much not going to end on a happy note.
SPOILER: Show
I realized only years after I started writing it that the memetic phrase "Kaworu died for your sins" has never been quite this literal in a fanfic than what I'm planning for him: charismatic not-quite-human who gathers disciples and inspires them, takes Shinji's suffering onto himself in the sense that all the crap that's usually shoveled onto Shinji by Eva's plot is dumped onto Kaworu instead, dies at the hands of one who doesn't hate him but is simply doing his job, then rises from the dead with wounds that do not heal and transcends the limits of humanity after his resurrection due to being backed by someone quite a few steps above him in the cosmic food chain.

And yet despite all this, he's anything but perfect. No, he's just as flawed as anyone else and he knows it very well. This fate was never his choice and he hates being forced into the role of a messiah, but he rolls with it anyway because there's no alternative.


The problem, however, is that I fucked up the beginning of the story. People read the first 2-3 chapters, then drop it as bland and uninteresting based on first impression because they don't get the instant gratification one would receive from Eva's first episode.

You didn't fuck up, some people are impatient readers. In my fic, I danced around Shinji and Asuka being in a relationship for 20-odd chapters, which some people were frustrated over. You can't rush plot just to satisfy an urge people have. Basically you can't fix shortsightedness or impatience, but you can work around it. Try adding in a short author's note to clarify things to some non-spoilery extent so that they don't miss out.
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Postby amitakartok » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:30 pm

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:I danced around Shinji and Asuka being in a relationship for 20-odd chapters, which some people were frustrated over.


I hear you. I already had one reviewer explicitly asking,quote,
Is the pairing tags a lie to draw in readers? Kaworu is asexual, Asuka is gay, but the tag implies they are shipped, then after 12 chapters there has been zero mention of Shinji, does he even exist in this fic? If he doesn't then why the tag that says he's shipped with Rei?

To which I corrected him that 1. Kaworu isn't asexual, he just lacks the urges due to biochemical issues involving certain hormone receptors, 2. Asuka is bisexual but prefers guys (and although my readers don't know yet, the evidence has already appeared in the last chapter :devil: ), 3. Shinji already appeared in a speaking role but hasn't been named because I was curious to see if people catch onto the hints I dropped, 4. it's gonna be a looong while until any pairings pay off because they're not the focus of the story.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:40 pm

^ I love when people drop hints in the story. I've always seen it as a way to make sure people are comprehending what's written. Plus, its always better to make a relationship feel right than just slap it together and say "here, they fucked, your welcome" and walk away. That does not make for a compelling story.And I like that you haven't made the pairing central to the story, more like a happy bonus that pays off in time.
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Postby jcmoorehead » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:53 am

View Original Postamitakartok wrote:I hear you. I already had one reviewer explicitly asking,quote,

To which I corrected him that 1. Kaworu isn't asexual, he just lacks the urges due to biochemical issues involving certain hormone receptors, 2. Asuka is bisexual but prefers guys (and although my readers don't know yet, the evidence has already appeared in the last chapter :devil: ), 3. Shinji already appeared in a speaking role but hasn't been named because I was curious to see if people catch onto the hints I dropped, 4. it's gonna be a looong while until any pairings pay off because they're not the focus of the story.


This is the sort of thing that happened in my story. I'm building up to a three way romance between Asuka/Shinji/Kaworu in mine, but the focus of the first few chapters has been on establishing Kaworu returning to the world and learning how to be human. He's met and developed a friendship with and then a romance with Asuka, both are currently living in Germany and Asuka hasn't been in contact with Shinji for a few years so part of the story has also been reconciling that.

Unfortunately many people told me they're going to drop the story because of the Asuka/Kaworu element.

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Postby AngelNo13Bardiel » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:40 am

I'm of the opinion that it really comes down to the fact that quite a lot of readers want a quick-fix (in terms of pacing, not correcting character faults), they want that instant gratification. I can't blame them, I like that way most of the time (and it tends to be the majority of my own output). But when I want to really get invested in a story, I need that slow burn. I think it's down to a YMMV kind-of thing.
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Postby silvermoonlight » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:56 am

View Original PostAngelNo13Bardiel wrote:I'm of the opinion that it really comes down to the fact that quite a lot of readers want a quick-fix (in terms of pacing, not correcting character faults), they want that instant gratification. I can't blame them, I like that way most of the time (and it tends to be the majority of my own output). But when I want to really get invested in a story, I need that slow burn. I think it's down to a YMMV kind-of thing.


I agree with that I think(They fucked your welcome) is for smut and works as a quick fix but but in a story I prefer slow burn as I want to feel invested in the characters and root for them when they do finally get together I want the reader to have anticipation so when it does finally come it feels like a huge reward.

jcmoorehead wrote:This is the sort of thing that happened in my story. I'm building up to a three way romance between Asuka/Shinji/Kaworu in mine, but the focus of the first few chapters has been on establishing Kaworu returning to the world and learning how to be human. He's met and developed a friendship with and then a romance with Asuka, both are currently living in Germany and Asuka hasn't been in contact with Shinji for a few years so part of the story has also been reconciling that.

Unfortunately many people told me they're going to drop the story because of the Asuka/Kaworu element.


People are stupid sometimes with reviews I would not give them a second thought and the best moment in yours was Rei trying to intimate a purrito and being all wrapped up in a blanket on the sofa. ^_^
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Postby amitakartok » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:29 pm

View Original Postjcmoorehead wrote:Unfortunately many people told me they're going to drop the story because of the Asuka/Kaworu element.


...for what it's worth, I'd drop it for the three-part pairing myself.

View Original PostAngelNo13Bardiel wrote:I agree with that I think(They fucked your welcome) is for smut and works as a quick fix but but in a story I prefer slow burn as I want to feel invested in the characters and root for them when they do finally get together I want the reader to have anticipation so when it does finally come it feels like a huge reward.


Same here.

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:Plus, its always better to make a relationship feel right than just slap it together and say "here, they fucked, your welcome" and walk away. That does not make for a compelling story.


Except for the fact that for whichever reader follows the breadcrumbs regarding the aforementioned evidence and comes to the proper conclusion, it's going to be a foregone conclusion and thus, no drama.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:49 pm

View Original Postamitakartok wrote:Except for the fact that for whichever reader follows the breadcrumbs regarding the aforementioned evidence and comes to the proper conclusion, it's going to be a foregone conclusion and thus, no drama.

Ah, but dramatic irony is always very fun to deal with, and as you've said, the pairings are really not the main focus. So, as long as the rest of the story is interesting (which I'm sure it is), then any foregone conclusions from paying attention to the breadcrumbs will be forgiven for having a compelling story.
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Postby amitakartok » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:39 pm

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:which I'm sure it is


Eh, I'm not sure about that. 90% of people, including the denizens of this very forum, won't read it because it's an AU and although I consider myself decent at writing dialogue and worldbuilding and have a knack for thinking up combat scenes that would look like something animated by Itano, writing actual narrative to connect all these elements is... not my strong point.

That and I'm a hopeless procrastinator, with my update speed recently having dropped to somewhere around 3 months between 3k word chapters. Real life issues aside, I just lack the motivation and several times have considered dropping the fic entirely, were it not for my regular readers warning me that there's a special place in hell for authors who drop awesome fics or something like that. They like it, sure, but they're so few in number that the fic has simply failed to spawn the discussion-between-chapters banter you'd see for, say, Advice and Trust. And that's a problem right there because towards myself, I'm a perfectionist who demands nothing less than utter perfection of the likes unattainable by average writers. Writing merely average stuff is not good enough for me, but it's all I'm capable of - and it's making me dissatisfied and disillusioned that I shouldn't have even begun writing this crap if I can't even do it properly.
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Postby MarqFJA87 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:06 pm

You know, there's always the in medias res approach, where the story starts with a "prologue" that actually takes place well into the story. It can act as a hook to capture the readers' attention, if it's executed right.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:34 am

Firstly, there is no right or correct way to write a fic, every writer does it differently. Secondly, writers always undervalue their work, and while I'm very proud of everything I've written, sometimes I do wonder if its worth it, and if people are enjoying it. But then I tell myself as long as one person reads it, it was worth it. So don't sell yourself short.
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Postby MarqFJA87 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:51 am

... You're basically saying that the very concept of "badly written story" does not exist, which is nonsensical. There are heaps of examples out on the Internet as well as in physical literature of stories that are objectively horrible in terms of quality.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:14 am

But I didn't say that. I said that there is no wrong way to write a fic, I never said that bad ones don't exist. The poorly written ones mind you are all subjective and based on the reader's own interpretation of the story as it's presented.

I know a lot of people won't read my own fic because some of the chapters are exceptionally long, which some people view as a bad thing. There are also people who think overly short chapters don't do much for a story. The quality of the fic is, unfortunately, in the eye o the beholder.
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Postby MarqFJA87 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:03 pm

There are objectively wrong ways to write a story. One of them is to desecrate all notions of basic grammar and spelling for no good reason. Another that is specific to fanfics is when the fanfic claims to be "totally canon-compliant" but even a grade schooler could tell that the writer's idea of what the characters are like has absolutely no connection whatsoever to how they were portrayed in canon.
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Postby amitakartok » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:20 pm

Don't forget fics whose entire purpose is to bash characters, with the author freely admitting it.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:13 pm

Well, thankfully I've never run into any fics like that.
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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:39 am

You know one of the things I hate most in fanfiction? Whenever they begin a story with Shinji and Asuka already being in a relationship and they say so in the fucking summary. Or they say so immediately after the disclaimer in the first chapter, I hate that in general for any fanfic to be quite honest.
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Postby MarqFJA87 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:53 am

... Why?
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:14 am

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:You know one of the things I hate most in fanfiction? Whenever they begin a story with Shinji and Asuka already being in a relationship and they say so in the fucking summary. Or they say so immediately after the disclaimer in the first chapter, I hate that in general for any fanfic to be quite honest.

Because they're not your ship, or because... something else? :???:
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