Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:28 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Relevant. This thread's recent activity is just an extension of that other one, come to think...

That thread is where i got my interpretation form.
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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:36 pm

I'd argue Asuka having to seperate herself from her mother's desires aligns better thematically with EOE where the characters, including Shinji have to let go of the past to move on.

Well, the Eva does get destroyed.
And Asuka gets help, but it's not solving all her problems.


If the intention here was to have Asuka's mom show she wanted Asuka to live, it doesn't make sense to put this set of images here that shows
A. Asuka dying
B. Asuka being eclisped by the doll which Kyoko hung with herself.

They symbolize Asuka's fears in the current situation. Which she connects to the traumatic memory of her mother telling her to die.


You've yet to cite any of the evidence suggesting the opposite

Just how the scene is done and presented in tone.
Once the Eva-series attacks, that's a different scene. A different and external threat.
Honestly I had never seen your interpretation before. Which doesn't make it less valid, but I think mine is the one that first comes to mind to most people.
Also, if the Eva really wanted her to die, it doesn't make sense for it to go super saiyan on every threat that comes its way.
I've seen it argued that these are just Asuka's imagination, but I was never quite sure on what basis the crazy voices could be deemed just Asuka's imagination whereas the loving voices are real, since they're given the same aural treatment in the film

I've never thought this literally about the scene I think. It could be all sort of explanations behind it.
Both voices could be happening in her mind, and once she realizes she wants to live she opens up to the Eva and realizes her mother is there.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:01 pm

Just so you're aware the bgm for the awakening is called False Rebirth so it's not just the background images and deranged Kyoko popping up in the mix that has unpleasant implications about the sequence.
Oh, but God forbid any of these theories have any validity! After all, we are just brainwashing innocent people with Reichu's fanclub propaganda!--Trigger's Elysium sarcasm for the masses!

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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:54 am

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:They symbolize Asuka's fears in the current situation. Which she connects to the traumatic memory of her mother telling her to die.

Fears that are realized...
tone and how the secene is done.

My interpretation fits the scene and the scenes right after a lot better tbh. The sequence ends with Asuka brutally killed while expressing bloodlust and hatred. The next season has her express hatred to Shinji who in turn kills everyone. This being a genuine epiphany/moment of triumph doesn't fit well with what we see after with Asuka's efforts being for nothing, and Asuka showing bloodlust/hatred in her final moments. This doesn't come across to me as a moment of genuine character development. And the "false rebirth" bit strengthens that. We only see that at the end after she's severed ties with her mom who's left in instrumentality. Furthermore, the main point of the show is that hapiness and meaning must be self created, so again, my interpretation where the externally given happiness is based on a falsehood is thematically stronger. Furthermore, we have no reason to assume the mother's soul is cherrypicked for good parts, and by the time of her death, Kyoko's soul was one which desired her daughter to die with her.

All considered, everything is pointing to Kyoko wanting Asuka to die with her.
Once the Eva-series attacks, that's a different scene. A different and external threat.
They're the same scene. They may be cuts to other scenes in between but it's disingenuous to act as if they aren't connected.
Also, if the Eva really wanted her to die, it doesn't make sense for it to go super saiyan on every threat that comes its way.

Asuka would have been safe against convetional weaponry regardless of whether or not she went supersaiyan. However without such a high sync ratio, she might not have been as physically affected by the damage done to her eva and she wouldn't be fighting the eva series. And if Shinji doesn't see Asuka's mutilated corspe, and Asuka hasn't just been brutally killed, the chances of Shinji initally having the world die plummet.

Just so you're aware the bgm for the awakening is called False Rebirth so it's not just the background images and deranged Kyoko popping up in the mix that has unpleasant implications about the sequence.

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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:41 am

All considered, everything is pointing to Kyoko wanting Asuka to die with her.

I dunno, I don't see any of those things.
I think it's a scene played much more straight than that.
Don't have more to add, I've said what I think.
False Rebirth to me just is an indication that Asuka still dies later.

The Eva Series bit imo is definitely a different sequence, this is communicated through the end of the music, the way it cuts away from the scene, etc.
The point is that Asuka's efforts are futile if the universe so decides. Here comes a new threat. It's unpredictable what the world will throw at you next.
Having Kyoko somehow plan that takes away from it imo.

I also don't see any negative connotation with Asuka's death (other than her death obviously). She fights to live until the very end.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
"In any case, it (Kill la Kill) is the greatest work of fiction ever written and should be taught in schools." -Squigsquasher
~('.'~) (~'.')~ Dancin Kirby

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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby Mud » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:20 am

Hello everyone. New here. Fascinating discussion.

To speak to the thread topic: the only direct observation I have to add is that when Asuka's arm splits, there is no hint of bone or muscle, not even in shape or texture - just a flat, featureless solid red-orange field (matching the rest of the core interior) inside her split sleeve. As there is no hesitation in showing gore elsewhere, as with Eva-02's own split arm, I think this is at least a suggestion that Asuka might be on her way to achieving an LCL state in the core (like Shinji did with 01) at the point of death.

I don't know if we can say anything definitive about what happened to the core itself (I haven't seen any solid indication of where 02's is); though the evageeks wiki claims the last Spear struck the core, I don't see how we can know that for sure. As I don't think we see the core and we do see the, er, insides of 02 pretty thoroughly at the end, for all we know the core might have vanished entirely into LCL at the moment of death when Asuka managed to simultaneously fulfill both of her mother's contradictory wishes by dying together with her while still trying with all her heart to survive. Others have talked about what being in an LCL state pre-Instrumentality might or might not mean, but regardless, I think Asuka's arm is an indication that it might be the case. Her later bandages could be, in this light, indicators that though she was torn apart to satisfy her mother's wish, she still ultimately wants to hold herself together - something her mother also wished for her.

I don't know if this is a place to get into what the MPEs get out of eating 02, or what happens to MPEs after swallowing (potentially at least) some LCL that contains Lilith souls, or whether or not Asuka and her mother in a pre-instrumentality LCL form that was created during the infliction of a mortal wound would be considered alive or dead. I don't know that it matters. But I definitely buy the idea that the outcome of this whole encounter is that Asuka is able to find peace with her mother's dual nature by giving her life while still trying to live, and as a result, she frees both her mother's soul and her own to act independently of one another once Instrumentality is broken. Whether or not that comes with a side effect of finding out what it feels like to be dismembered and eaten while in some sense technically alive is probably only relevant to Asuka's future confidants and therapists.


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