Rewatching the Rebuilds, and my thoughts

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Re: Rewatching the Rebuilds, and my thoughts

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Postby Stillborn » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:58 pm

Ray

What really would make audience angry, is actually giving the characters a happy ending. You must remember that Eva fana thrive on Shinji's misery. And for him to be miserable, he must be alive. That's it

As long as there is some flimsy throwaway line about happiness, they will keep on hammering about how hopefull Eva is.

The fact that we will be left with characters, that are mentally and physically broken and shredded by the events, like former prisioners of GULAG or victims of torture/brianwashing is perfectly fine with them as long as characters don't die from the abuse. Because that would be a bad message XD

I mean, it's ok for you to enjoy beating your wife, and as long as you don't kill her, she can be happy with you. Of course, if she leaves you and escapes, she's a coward and a quitter and if she fights back, she will be punished (and probably arrested). She just need to deal with it and be happy with what she have. Maybe all she need is some character developer at (become a masochist or a Stockholm syndrome...)
Another jaded man.
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Re: Rewatching the Rebuilds, and my thoughts

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Postby Ray » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:03 am

Even I don't take it that far man.

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Re: Rewatching the Rebuilds, and my thoughts

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Postby Stillborn » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:08 am

What? It's perfectly valid analogy.
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Wciąż stoję nieruchomo, w nieżywym już szeregu. Umieram na stojąco, niech inni giną w biegu.

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Re: Rewatching the Rebuilds, and my thoughts

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:41 am

Nobody takes a lesson to heart when the character is allowed to change and become better

I think the opposite is true for End of Evangelion.
And many role models.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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Re: Rewatching the Rebuilds, and my thoughts

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Postby Ray » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:13 pm

Shinji, Asuka, Misato, Rei etc. are many things. 'Role Models' are not one of those things.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
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Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Re: Rewatching the Rebuilds, and my thoughts

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Postby kuribo-04 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:53 am

Evangelion was never meant to teach something to people without issues (other than awareness I guess).

A depressed person won't learn much from a perfect character.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
"In any case, it (Kill la Kill) is the greatest work of fiction ever written and should be taught in schools." -Squigsquasher
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Re: Rewatching the Rebuilds, and my thoughts

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Postby Blockio » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:38 pm

View Original PostErgoProxy wrote:[...]Anno will do his job well, if he delivers an emotional blow to all of us, doing something fairly unjust to the characters. Trivially, if he develops them to change for better and thus reach some heart-warming redemption, only to get them all brutally (and I'm not saying: physically) destroyed afterwards due tor all the humane mistakes they'd made beforehand – and that's because You are (not) allowed, or something like that.

To be completely honest, unless final proves me wrong I like to believe that Anno is a bit more competent in bringing his most iconic series to an end than your average darkfic writer. Im not saying it will be a WAFF ending, but especially the "brutally (and I'm not saying: physically) destroyed" is pushing it quite a bit in my opinion
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Re: Rewatching the Rebuilds, and my thoughts

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Postby Blockio » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:02 pm

View Original PostFrDougal9000 wrote:
-Despite how little screen time she got in comparison to the last film, I was paying to a lot of attention to Asuka's actions and mannerisms. For example, she refers to Misatio as 'Captain Katsuragi' instead of her proper title of Colonel. This seems strange, but then you remember that Asuka had the rank of Captain in 2.0, and likely doesn't want to see herself on a lower rank to Misato.

Picking up on something that has been said much earlier in here:
Calling someone by any rank other than the one that the person holds, especially one lower than the actual rank, is pretty much one of the worst insults in any military, and if you do it out of stubbornness, its guaranteed (not pretty much guaranteed, but guaranteed, 100% sure, no wqay around it) to be followed up with disciplinary actions. So unless WILLE is nothing more than a bunch of unorganized fools, which they dont seem to be, this can be safely considered false
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Re: Rewatching the Rebuilds, and my thoughts

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Postby pwhodges » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:18 pm

No, that doesn't apply to the Captain of a ship - a post rather than a rank.
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Re: Rewatching the Rebuilds, and my thoughts

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Postby Blockio » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:40 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:No, that doesn't apply to the Captain of a ship - a post rather than a rank.

I should probably have clarified that I was talking about captain as a rank. Sorry, my bad.

Also, at least in German naval ranks, Kapitän is the equivalent to an Oberst (which from what I can tell is the equivalent to a colonel in the US army). So That would be pretty high up on the list
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Re: Rewatching the Rebuilds, and my thoughts

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Postby ArvisTaljik » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:25 am

View Original PostBlockio wrote:Picking up on something that has been said much earlier in here:
Calling someone by any rank other than the one that the person holds, especially one lower than the actual rank, is pretty much one of the worst insults in any military, and if you do it out of stubbornness, its guaranteed (not pretty much guaranteed, but guaranteed, 100% sure, no wqay around it) to be followed up with disciplinary actions. So unless WILLE is nothing more than a bunch of unorganized fools, which they dont seem to be, this can be safely considered false


Asuka is NOT insulting Misato by calling her Captain. You have to pay attention to the actual Japanese word she's using and not just depend on the subtitles.
At the risk of seeming like a douche, I'm going to quote myself:

ArvisTaljik wrote:This is correct. The Japanese term for "Captain of a Warship" is 艦長 (kanchou). This title is one of position and NOT one of rank, meaning that she is "Captain" of the ship regardless of what her actual military rank is. You could also swap this with "Commanding Officer" 隊長 (taichou). Several other anime series play rather fast and loose with the two titles and frequently use both alongside one another.

By comparison the other "captain" ranks are 大尉 (taisa) which can designate a Colonel (Army/Marines/Air Force) or Captain (Navy) or the rank of 大尉 (taii) which is a Captain (Army/Marines/Air Force) or Lieutenant (Navy).


Asuka calls Katsuragi "kanchou" in the original Japanese.
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Re: Rewatching the Rebuilds, and my thoughts

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Postby Blockio » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:56 pm

View Original PostArvisTaljik wrote:Asuka is NOT insulting Misato by calling her Captain. You have to pay attention to the actual Japanese word she's using and not just depend on the subtitles.

Asuka calls Katsuragi "kanchou" in the original Japanese.

I know, I was sinply adding another perspective to it, so it can also be applied to the english dub (because lets face it, the english versiin has quite a bit of dialigue that significantly changes the way scenes are to be interpreted)
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Re: Rewatching the Rebuilds, and my thoughts

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:07 pm

Back on page 1, I posted about Asuka and Misato's respective ranks through 1.0-3.0. Nothing about Asuka's usage in Japanese 3.0 is offensive—it's literally simply calling Misato by her naval title, instead of acting on a familiar level (Misato at least, still refers to Asuka and Mari by their first names with no honorifics, as she always has toward Asuka).

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Assuming it was Japanese, in this case Misato's title is for naval captain (大佐 , taisa) Shikinami's in 2.0 was 大尉 (taii). At Nerv in 1.0 to 2.0, Misato went from 二佐 (nisa, Lt Col) to 一佐 (iisa, Col) somewhere off-screen.


Regarding dialogue in the English dub, the lack of redubbing Misato's near-ending "Shinji...." (more like a growl, in the dub!) still bothers me. It completely loses the subtle implications of Mitsuishi's delivery.

If I remember right, the 3.0 script says Misato in Japanese delivers his name as "Wanting to believe in Shinji".
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Re: Rewatching the Rebuilds, and my thoughts

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Postby kuribo-04 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:13 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:If I remember right, the 3.0 script says Misato in Japanese delivers his name as "Wanting to believe in Shinji".

Yup, that is how it sounds!
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
"In any case, it (Kill la Kill) is the greatest work of fiction ever written and should be taught in schools." -Squigsquasher
~('.'~) (~'.')~ Dancin Kirby


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