What is the inspiration/reasoning behind the Angel's design?

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Re: a possible inspiration for the design of Leliel

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Postby Chuckman » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:55 pm

Is there any connection between the fashion trend and the camouflage?

Edit:

It would seem that while Leliel is not directly inspired by the camouflage, it was definitely an indirect inspiration. The dazzle patterns from the 60's fashions were a revival of dazzle patterns used earlier:

https://www.evilmadscientist.com/2013/d ... n-fashion/

In fact, dazzle patterns in clothing appeared contemporaneously with the camouflage on ships.
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Re: a possible inspiration for the design of Leliel

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Postby Reichu » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:57 am

Knowing Anno and his steadfast inclination toward Anno-like things, ships feel like the more obvious source of inspiration to me. Nice find, Blockio!

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Re: a possible inspiration for the design of Leliel

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Postby Blockio » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:23 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Knowing Anno and his steadfast inclination toward Anno-like things, ships feel like the more obvious source of inspiration to me. Nice find, Blockio!


That was what caught my eye in the first place as well. IVe read an article on dazzling camoflague a few months back and then stumbled across the picture I linked two days before making this post, and it immediately reminded me of Leliel
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Re: a possible inspiration for the design of Leliel

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Postby Cybermat47 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:45 pm

I’ve known about dazzle camo for a while, but I never made the connection with Leliel. Good catch.

I wonder why dazzle cam wasn’t more common? It seems pretty effective to me. Determining distance and angle on bow was essential to aiming with torpedoes, and dazzle cam definitely makes that harder, judging from photos.

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Re: a possible inspiration for the design of Leliel

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Postby Blockio » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:37 pm

View Original PostCybermat47 wrote:I’ve known about dazzle camo for a while, but I never made the connection with Leliel. Good catch.

I wonder why dazzle cam wasn’t more common? It seems pretty effective to me. Determining distance and angle on bow was essential to aiming with torpedoes, and dazzle cam definitely makes that harder, judging from photos.


I guess it was a two-edged sword, since it did make it easier to realise that there was something there, even if it was harder to identify. Plus, the camo scheme was unique for each vessel, so it was very tedious to design and apply. At least thats my explanation to it, I dont think anyone has actually bothered with thorough research. Although I do know a few people who might be able to give a more in-depth answer, so Ill just ask them and forward this as soon as I have an answer.
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Re: a possible inspiration for the design of Leliel

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Postby Blockio » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:56 pm

I got an answer:

a guy who is an expert on naval warfare wrote:Part of it was that paint costs resources that are often needed elsewhere, such as lead that could be used in bullets- another reason was manpower, painting takes time and lots of people
Also, dazzle camo only works with the right conditions, such as formation spread, distance to target, weather, speed, etc


So yeah, aparently it just wasnt worth it.
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What is the inspiration/reasoning behind the Angel's design?

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Postby Npgp » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:22 pm

I'm curious because some of the Angel's design is very different from eachother. I'm watching the series for the second time and don't remember some of them having such designs. I'm on episode 12 so far.
The giant triangle cube, the spider with the acid eye, and then episode 12 is this abstract looking splatter shape with a giant eye.
Each of these Angels with a totally unique design. Has anyone read/heard of their inspiration or why the creators chose to make them the way they did? The episode (12) that I just finished really had me wondering. So random looking!

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Re: What is the inspiration/reasoning behind the Angel's design?

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Postby Reichu » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:03 am

There's not much information here AFAIK. I can't think of anything that's been directly stated aside from Anno pointing out that Sandalphon is based on Anomalocaris right on the design sheet. Some guesses can be made about a few of the others, though.

- Sachiel: Grows a second face; multiple faces is typical of angels in Ezekiel's writings. Sachi's face looking like a bird skull might reference a cherub specifically (they have four faces, one of which is an eagle's).
- Ramiel: Possibly based on the Blue Water from Anno's previous work, Nadia.
- Gaghiel: Incorporates elements from various marine animals, like dolphins, rays, and sharks.
- Sandalphon: Looks like Cambrian critter Anomalocaris fused with a flatfish.
- Matarael & Sahaquiel: Have eyes in weird places or of unusual number. Angels have been described with wings covered in eyes.
- Leliel: Possible inspiration.
- Bardiel: Borrows elements of slime molds. (Also, let's be honest: semen.)
- Arael: Multiple pairs of wings probably reference the seraphim.
- Armisael: Based on a bacterial plasmid. Also alludes to a halo, and possibly also to the fiery wheels on God's throne (ophanim/galgallin).

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Re: What is the inspiration/reasoning behind the Angel's design?

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Postby Blockio » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:59 pm

Per Bible, most angels are very different from each other and often very much not human, so this is one possible explanation to why they look the way they do. Another one is that it would be pretty boring , confusing and bad for merchandising if they all looked the same
This article also provides images based on the biblical descriptions
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Re: What is the inspiration/reasoning behind the Angel's design?

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Postby Npgp » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:20 am

Really interesting stuff. Thanks!! Yeah a few of the designs have surprised me, I guess I remembered the show differently but had some different expectations. Even in the episode (ep 16-ish?) with the black & white patterned ball with the black hole-like shadow was unexpected, initially I was looking for some arms and legs is all! The Angels descriptions on that site is really interesting, I didn't expect they could look that way, makes more sense now.

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Re: What is the inspiration/reasoning behind the Angel's design?

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Postby ACGT-Samael » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:35 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:- Bardiel: Borrows elements of slime molds. (Also, let's be honest: semen.)


Anno: "When in doubt, sexual imagery."

That said Bardiel is also similar to certain types of parasitic fungus that can actually take control of the host's (usually an insect) brain.

To add a one more, Shamshel appears to be a planarian with arms stuck on, and its 1.11 Counterpart adds notes of a horseshoe crab with the bony legs.

To add a more unifying trend, the mask-like "face" shared by a few of them is probably 1) to symbolise how their true identity is obscured, and 2) to illustrate their inability to communicate with other beings (since it has no mouth).

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Re: What is the inspiration/reasoning behind the Angel's design?

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Postby ElKaizerX » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:25 pm

View Original PostNpgp wrote:I'm curious because some of the Angel's design is very different from eachother. I'm watching the series for the second time and don't remember some of them having such designs. I'm on episode 12 so far.
The giant triangle cube, the spider with the acid eye, and then episode 12 is this abstract looking splatter shape with a giant eye.
Each of these Angels with a totally unique design. Has anyone read/heard of their inspiration or why the creators chose to make them the way they did? The episode (12) that I just finished really had me wondering. So random looking!


If any of the other psychological terms have any deeper meaning to the show, such as the psychological term A.T. Field being artistically interpreted/literalized by Anno et al in the Evangelion universe as a visible force field, I don't think it's a big leap to see the exaggerated and varied designs of the Angels (including the Lilin, Adam, Lilith, and the hinted at FAR) also as artistic interpretations of various Human aspects/drives/impulses/emotions. As to what aspects would be categorically assigned to each is still a mostly a mystery for me. If I could guess, I'd say Lilith is the Jungian Anima, Adam the Jungian Animus, and the FAR is us, humanity, the audience, Anno, etc. that exist in a universe outside of Evangelion's universe, but can still observe and affect Evangelion. A bit deeper down the rabbit hole is the term Impacts. If you go full biology metaphor, I think they may represent massive points of transition in human development. The first impact being conception in which the SoLs seeded the fertile Earth. The second impact being birth in which Adam is violently pulled/awakened from the Earth. And the third impact being puberty and or the loss of virginity in which the union of two seeds sheds the world of innocence and thrusts them into a new beginning. I would also guess that the piloted Evangelions are a sort of meta wink-wink artistic interpretation of the Neon Genesis Evangelion show as a whole if I were to follow the same logic about the A.T. Field in that the Evangelions (humanoids) and NGE share the same terminology and both act as a sort of in your face gospel (message) for their creators.

I think NGE may be Anno's gospel to the audience or, more descriptively, an artistic representation of the Anno's personal journey out of a dark period in his life within the genre of big robot sci-fi where abstract medical, scientific, and spiritual terms are made literal, maybe, in the hopes to better use these terms to help any potential audience member get through their own hardships. It's how I imagine devote people interact with their spiritual beliefs if symbolically interpreted vs literally interpreted. For example, a symbolic interpretation of Genesis would see Adam, Eve, God, the Tree, the Fall, etc. as metaphors in the process of transitioning from child to adult, while a literal interpretation sees Adam, Eve, God, the Tree, the Fall as physically existing in humanity's past.

View Original PostBlockio wrote:Per Bible, most angels are very different from each other and often very much not human, so this is one possible explanation to why they look the way they do. Another one is that it would be pretty boring , confusing and bad for merchandising if they all looked the same
This article also provides images based on the biblical descriptions


Scrolling through the various interpretations of angels provided by your link was a great help in making my points above. Thank you. Makes me feel for our ancient ancestors and present humanity in our continuous efforts to try and communicate the abstract thoughts, feelings, ideas, etc that construct our consciousness. It's no wonder in the absence of current scientific/medical terminology, other animal species and exaggerated aspects of humanity became such a prominent motif in interpreting the immaterial. Kind of makes me think of NGE as the Bible for the scientific method generation.

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Re: What is the inspiration/reasoning behind the Angel's design?

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Postby Reichu » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:58 pm

View Original PostElKaizerX wrote:psychological terms (...) A.T. Field

"A.T. Field" is just a term that was created for the show. There is an ancient rumor that it's a psychology term, but people have gone to great lengths to try to find a single piece of literature that mentions it, and all come up empty-handed.

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Re: What is the inspiration/reasoning behind the Angel's design?

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Postby ElKaizerX » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:54 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:"A.T. Field" is just a term that was created for the show. There is an ancient rumor that it's a psychology term, but people have gone to great lengths to try to find a single piece of literature that mentions it, and all come up empty-handed.


Ha. Fair enough. Add me to the pile on that one. I blame it on AT Field sharing similar roots to the concept of the Ego and Anno et al's ability in creating delicious psuedoscientific terms. I don't think the loss of AT Field being a term used in our universe/reality but literalized in NGE takes away from the overall idea of the meta-ness of the show.

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Re: What is the inspiration/reasoning behind the Angel's design?

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Postby ACGT-Samael » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:55 pm

Something I'd like to add is that GNR growing 12 wings may be a reference to the Tree of Life in itself.

See, while most people know it for having 10 orbs (especially since the scene includes Unit-01 and the 9 Mass Production Units), it's actually got an 11th that's not always depicted - Da'at, or God itself. In this case, the God in question is a composite of both Adam and Lilith, so it counts as 2 beings, bringing the total number of wings to 12 (1 for each Sephirah and 2 for the Binary Da'at).

The idea of a female God also makes reference to the Shekinah, which is the Divine Presence but is also used for refer to the feminine aspect of God.

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Re: What is the inspiration/reasoning behind the Angel's design?

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Postby Rei IV » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:45 pm

So what's the basis for Shamshel's design? Freudian symbolism?

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Re: What is the inspiration/reasoning behind the Angel's design?

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Postby ElKaizerX » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:54 pm

View Original PostRei IV wrote:So what's the basis for Shamshel's design? Freudian symbolism?

:hahaha:


Given the episode focused on Shinji connecting with his masculine classmates :devil: It's also interesting that the episode culminated with letting in the other two inside his... Mother.

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Re: What is the inspiration/reasoning behind the Angel's design?

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Postby Blockio » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:14 pm

View Original PostRei IV wrote:So what's the basis for Shamshel's design? Freudian symbolism?

:hahaha:

Seeing how Shamshel entered horizontally and the stood up... yes
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Re: What is the inspiration/reasoning behind the Angel's design?

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Postby ACGT-Samael » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:52 am

The one bit of Angel design that does have me confused is the Core. On most Angels they're located in the solar plexus, and it seems odd to have their only weak spot exposed like that. Gaghiel had his inside his mouth, and the lineart for Arael makes it look like its core floats in front of it, which is weird. Then there's Iruel, Bardiel and Tabris, whose physiology doesn't make clear where their cores could be, of even if they have them.

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Re: What is the inspiration/reasoning behind the Angel's design?

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Postby Blockio » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:59 pm

View Original PostACGT-Samael wrote:The one bit of Angel design that does have me confused is the Core. On most Angels they're located in the solar plexus, and it seems odd to have their only weak spot exposed like that. Gaghiel had his inside his mouth, and the lineart for Arael makes it look like its core floats in front of it, which is weird. Then there's Iruel, Bardiel and Tabris, whose physiology doesn't make clear where their cores could be, of even if they have them.

Mixing canons here a bit, but in the rebuilds, the angels are classified into categories: Infection, Rejection and a third one that I forgot.

Rejection-type angels are ones like Sachiel, Shamshel or Zeruel, with their core exposed on their chest (I know its technically not their chest, but you know what I mean).
Infection-type Angels on the other hand, are ones like Ireul, Berdiel, the eleventh and possible Armisael, alll of which either dont have a core or are the core itself (which is probably also true for Ireul and Bardiel)
And as far as Kaworu goes, he always was different from all other angels, so he might not even need a core to begin with
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