Will Anno Try To Top The "Hospital Room Scene"? Can Anything Be As Messed Up?

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Re: Will Anno Try To Top The "Hospital Room Scene"? Can Anything Be As Messed Up?

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Postby barnett » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:47 am

Yeah that sounds quite realistic in the context of the NTE, definitely tamer than NGE

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Postby SEELE-01 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:44 pm

Indeed it would :emogendo:
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Re: Will Anno Try To Top The "Hospital Room Scene"? Can Anything Be As Messed Up?

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Postby andreh » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:58 pm

Shinji strangling a cat would be far more effective than any hospital scene :nyao:
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Postby Cybermat47 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:48 am

View Original PostSettie wrote:Well i can think of one way to one up it, an attempted suicide scene. Something like a minute long (or longer) scene with no music and just muffled sound effects as Shinji goes through the motions of his attempt.

That would convey a certain state of mind and be shocking enough for an audience that is familiar with such a topic while still fitting within the narrative and not be shocking just for the sake of it.


That sounds genuinely chilling and heartbreaking. It would be perfect for the film.

And if that does happen, Shinji shouldn’t be stopped by anyone walking in on him. He should stop because he’s afraid. Then, unable to even end his own life, he feels completely powerless, and breaks down.
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Re: Will Anno Try To Top The "Hospital Room Scene"? Can Anything Be As Messed Up?

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Postby Joseki » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:00 am

Shinji attempting suicide could motivate some fragile viewers to attempt it themselves. Eva speaks to those people the most, I think Anno will be wary of this power he has.
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Postby kuribo-04 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:00 am

I see it as out of character for Shinji.
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Re: Will Anno Try To Top The "Hospital Room Scene"? Can Anything Be As Messed Up?

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Postby Cybermat47 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:30 am

View Original PostJoseki wrote:Shinji attempting suicide could motivate some fragile viewers to attempt it themselves. Eva speaks to those people the most, I think Anno will be wary of this power he has.


I admit, I hadn’t thought about that, but... and I don’t want to sound like an asshole here, but those people shouldn’t be watching Eva at all while they’re like that.

I was once in a pretty fragile state of mind myself, and attempted suicide multiple times. Just watching NGE in that state of mind would have been enough to make me start considering it again.

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:I see it as out of character for Shinji.


Depression changes people drastically. The friends and family of suicide victims probably saw it as out of character for them, too.
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Re: Will Anno Try To Top The "Hospital Room Scene"? Can Anything Be As Messed Up?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:31 am

We pretty much live in Shinji's head though as the audience.
Also he is a fictional character with a role to play, and I don't see suicide is a part of that.
Who knows what the final movie throws at us, but there would need to be a good excuse and it would need to be well executed.
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Re: Will Anno Try To Top The "Hospital Room Scene"? Can Anything Be As Messed Up?

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Postby Settie » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:33 pm

Well Shinji has shown a certain apathy towards his well being in the past, some examples that come to mind is at the end of 2.0. When he's in the angel shelter during zeruels attack, there's a shot where he still in it alone with the PA system alerting that that shelter isn't safe and should be evacuated yet he didn't move. His words "i don't care what happens to me" when attempting to rescue Rei.

It's not that far fetched that given what has transpired in 3.0 he'd go to some dark places emotionally.

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Re: Will Anno Try To Top The "Hospital Room Scene"? Can Anything Be As Messed Up?

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Postby SEELE-01 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:34 pm

View Original Postandreh wrote:Shinji strangling a cat would be far more effective than any hospital scene :nyao:


I can tolerate Eva 01 having it's arm broken and receiving a lobotomy, Rei and Shinji half-boiled by Ramiel, Asuka crushed in the Entry Plug, Mary almost losing an eye... Heck, I can easily stomach de destruction of Eva 03 -and for that matter, that of Eva 02 in EoE-

But harming a kitten!
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Re: Will Anno Try To Top The "Hospital Room Scene"? Can Anything Be As Messed Up?

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Postby pwhodges » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:36 pm

Anyway - it's already been done. It's right there in Sadamoto's manga. Even though it's not Shinji...

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Postby andreh » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:41 pm

Yep, thats my point. It would be an interesting tribute to the "other" Kaworu, just as it would be a terrifying scene that shows how Shinji may be disturbed after the events we saw in Q :emogendo:
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Postby SEELE-01 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:43 pm

Oh I know all about Eva's underground hatred for kittens...
I like kittens, that's all...
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Re: Will Anno Try To Top The "Hospital Room Scene"? Can Anything Be As Messed Up?

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Postby one-eyed » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:56 am

The sad thing is that Anno's cat has died recently and curiously cats and hedgehogs are among the loveliest things there are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnG0fC1E71M&t=153s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D36JUfE1oYk

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Re: Will Anno Try To Top The "Hospital Room Scene"? Can Anything Be As Messed Up?

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Postby xanderkh » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:22 pm

Honestly, I think showing an attempt at suicide would be akin to the infamous "hospital room scene", showing just how far Shinji has fallen and would add to the dramatic depth of the movie.

Now, before any of you give me that look, I do NOT want Shinji to die at all, but I think the ATTEMPT itself would have a purpose to the story of Evangelion, especially of Shinji's journey and his relationship with everyone around him.

Like Settie suggested, I think it should be a silent scene, with only the sounds of Shinji's breathing and the background ambient noises to highlight the intensity of this scene. Now, I have an idea of what purpose this scene should have in the context of the movie, so let me know what you guys think:

As for the attempt itself, I think Shinji would succeed in the suicide attempt, whether it's choking himself or slitting his wrists somehow (the latter probably more thematically shocking for the context).

But what's important for this arc is not that Shinji succeeds in the suicide attempt, but that he SURVIVES. And not by yui or Eva-01 saving him....but by Misato.

So, picture the scene, Shinji has succeeded in his attempt, and is slowly awaiting the release of death, when then he wakes up, in a hospital bed, in an unfamiliar ceiling. He's all alone, except for one person: Captain Misato.

This shocks Shinji to the core. Misato makes a comment, in her cold, miltaristic exterior that his attempt was stupid and selfish, but that's when Shinji completely SNAPS!

He yells at her, screaming at the top of his lungs, throwing everything he can get his hands on at her, screaming both his confusion and hatred for everything that has happened. Misato doesn't move a muscle as she's bombarded with these accusations. Shinji throws everything he can, both physically and verbally at her, screaming his confusion about WHY they saved him, when it's obvious to him that they don't want him around. He yells every logical and revenge-filled theory we've made here about how much WILLE hates him and would rather have him dead, and the fact that they saved him when he could've rid them all of him, confuses him to no end. The only conclusion he could come up with is that they brought him back, just for him to SUFFER and live in endless pain.

He then finally unleashes all his bottled up rage, and shouts his utter hatred to himself, to the world, to Wille, and with one resounding yell, he screams that he hates Misato most of all for her "betrayal".

But almost immediately after he yells that, Misato then screams to Shinji to "SHUT THE FUCK UP!", the first time Shinji saw her show any emotion since he arrived. But, her yell is not one of anger or hatred at him....but a plea. A plea of exhaustion, resignment, and sorrow. This silences Shinji, and for the first time in a long time, Shinji sees Misato....crying.

The mask has been broken.

Misato, in both a fit of anger and saddess, allows the tears to flow (since nobody else is around). She tells Shinji that yes, he's made their lives a living hell, that they've had to endure so much loss and pain this last decade and a half because of a choice he made....but that choice was also her fault. It was all their fault. She admits that. That how they could have handled this all, only made things worse. Instead of pushing Shinji away, to not deal with the pain of a mistake of the past, it only made things worse, for everyone, especially him.

This silences Shinji to the core. Misato keeps going on. She doesn't expect him to forgive her, that's his choice. And while she's still pissed at him for his actions these past few days, she doesn't blame him for it, because it reminds her of what she was like, so many years ago.

But this doesn't answer Shinji's question: "Why did you save me?" Misato simply answers: "Because.....I don't want to lose you again..."

THAT is how I think the hospital scene can be topped, a scene that is both painful to watch, and rather viscerial to bear, especially with the confrontation with Shinji and Misato. However, unlike EoE, I do believe that such a scene should have a purpose: To bring Shinji and Misato back to being hopeful again. :)

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:31 pm

An impressive thought experiment, i must say. Whether we see something like this in the film proper, or something else entirely, i personally don't care, as i want to go in with as few pre-conceived expectations as possible. But nonetheless, what you wrote was definitely something i could envision Anno trying
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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:25 pm

I just don't see Shinji hating Misato or the rest of Wille, when his main motivation during 3.0 was to reconcile with them.
Shinji doesn't seem like somebody who would commit suicide either. He isn't an active character and doesn't make big choices. When he really suffers, he goes back to inactivity and lets things happen.
For me to believe he would consider ending his life I think more would need to happen to him, much more.
But we all seem to have different thoughts on that, and it depends on the movie's execution.
I just hope that if the movie were to treat that subject, it does so tastefully.
Instrumentality was always a clever, subtle way of illustrating how pointless ending life is.
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Postby Celepito » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:46 am

Well, guess its time to finally write this down, since it somewhat fits the topic and I did spend months thinking about this again and again. After watching 3.0 I was thinking about what could happen in 3.0+1. An attempted sucide from Shinji was indeed included.

Warning - Non-naitive-English speaker here! Also, mad rambelings about stuff which might or might not happend in 3.0+1 in form of a Wall of Text.

I was thinking that Shinji would be silent/unresponsive to everyone and wouldnt answer any questions, so no one at WILLE knows that he blames himself for how the world is right now (assuming that WILLE knows that 3rd impact was stopped and Shinji had no idea what would happen). So, after some questioning and with a new DDS Choker and whitout any answers, they allow him to wander around under the supervision of Toji's sister. So he wanders around aimlessly, until he comes to stop at the edge of the Wunder (with a railing). He leans on it, just watching the world under them. (Depending on the global state of the world, this could be used to show that the destruction is restricted to the area around Tokyo-3, or that the problems are indeed worldwide. Assuming that the later is the case.) Shinji now has a breakdown when seeing more of the destruction he blames himself for. Before Sakura can do anything, Shinji jumps of the flying Wunder. (I think that this is more fitting than cutting himself, since it is more passive in a sense, he doesnt actually have to hurt himself in the process. If that makes sense.) But intead of falling past the Wunder to his death, he gets caught by an AT-Field which moves him towards the middle of the Wunder, where the core and thus Unit-01 is. Sakura calls Misato, who immideatly calls a Security Team to the Core, while at the same time already running herself. Next scene is Misato pushing through the afformentioned team, which can't get through a door, since it is blocked by an AT-Field. Upon reaching the door, we see Shinji on his knees infront of the head of Unit-01, seemingly looking at him, still crying and having a breakdown. Misato then realizes that the AT-Field is gone, and goes through the door, where we now see Asuka, Mari and Rei Q (who was being questioned by the others before) following her, at which point the AT-Field reappears. Before anyone can do anything, Unit-01 moves its arm as like to wipe away Shinjis tears, at which point Misato takes out the remote for the Choker and calls out to Shinji to get away from 01. Then the remote is pulled away by an AT-Field-Bubble.
After this point though I am not sure what to do, and I am also not sure how fitting this would be alltoghether. Self moving Unit-01 could be explained by Rei now also being inside Unit-01, or simply with Yui (since Berserker is still happening in the Rebuilds). Some possibilities, which could also happen after one another or not at all, are that Asuka then starts moving towards Shinji, before being stopped by Unit-01's other arm/another AT-Field, Rei Q moving forwards and looking curiously at Unit-01 which then touches her gently with a finger, which returns Reis memories by uniting the soul fragments within Rei Q and Unit-01, Shinji starting to yell and ask Unit-01 why it saved him, Rei/Asuka/Mari/Misato asking Shinji why he attempted to kill himself, and then a explanation scene, where we get to know what happend in the 14 years and that no one/none of them (Misato and Pilots) really blames Shinji.

Some of that stuff would most likely not be fitting (especially the Rei part), but that is what my brain threw at me, so there it is, something I wanted to write since I watched 3.0 months ago. I think my only real point would be that if Shinji attempted suicide, he would try to go with the most "painless" way, so cutting/suffocating himself would be out of question. (Counter argument would be that he blames himself so much that he would try to make himself suffer the most while doing it.)

For those wanting some more stuff I came up with, which would be too off-topic  SPOILER: Show
Based on the preview at the end of 3.0, and my brain wanting Shinji to successfully do some Badass stuff without fucking over everyone, as well as a theory about Gendo's hidingspot:

The Wunder is downed, unable to fly, so WILLE send out Unit-08/02, fitted with a Dual-Entry-System and piloted by Mari and Asuka, against the horde of MP-Evas. They can hold their own for now. Next Scene is inside the Wunders bridge, the staff watching everything on a screen, Misato, Ritsuko, and (redeemed/responsive) Shinji among them. Ritsuko says that they wont make it against the MPEs (as Unit-08/02 gets pinned by a replicated lance), to which Misato answers that they have nothing else left. Which is the point when Shinji says "Send me." Ritsuko immediatly goes "NO, thats too risky, the chances of you triggering another impact in Unit-01 are too high!", all while Shinji stares intently at Misato, who is looking at the ground, the shadow of her cap hiding her face. Then she looks up, at Shinji, a smirk on her features, before shooting a glance at Ritsuko and saying "Well, we never really cared about our chances, did we?" (Call back to 2.0) Cut to the next scene, where Asuka and Mari are getting informed by Misato that the Wunder is sending out reinforcements, which confuses them, since they thought they were all WILLE had left. This is followed by a callback to EOE, Shinji and Unit-01 emerging from the Wunder like they did in EOE from HQ, wings and all. But there are mutiple lances flying at the pinned Unit-08/02. Shinji snarles "NO.", extends Unit-01s arm and an AT-Field actually stops the replicas, cut to the shocked reactions from the Wunder crew and Asuka going "Shinji." with an awed expression like at the beginning of 3.0, while Mari looks at here with a knowing :3-face (as well as Gendos angry one, with Fuyutsuki smirking in the background). Shinji then proceeds to tear appart the MPEs.

Now I got multiple versions of the following part:

A) Unit-01 goes over to Unit-08/02 and picks it up in bridal carry, Asuka still going O.O, at which point Mari says "Looks like the Puppy finally rescued his Princess." which snaps Asuka out of it, with her going "Shut it, Four-Eyes!" while Shinji walks back towards the downed Wunder.

B) Unit-01 starts glowing white, like at the end of 2.0, and the portal opens. Misato is trying to open a channel with Unit-01, yelling at Shinji to stop. Outside Unit-01 lifts its arm towards the portal, before making a swiping motion downwards. That is followed by the pyramid of HQ being pulled out of the portal, with a cut to Gendo and Fuyutsuki where everything around them shakes. (Theory being that Gendo and Fuyutsuki used 4th Impact to fly into the portal.) The HQ crashed to the ground, while Unit-01 powers down before Shinji falls unconsious and Unit-01 falls over.

C) Combination of A and B, first B until the HQ is pulled out of the portal followed by A while the HQ crashes to the ground, followed by Unit-01 powering down and Shinji falling unconsious after reaching the Wunder and laying Unit-08/02 on the deck.

This was as long in the making as the more on-topic part, so I hope this wasnt too bad of a read!
Last edited by Celepito on Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Will Anno Try To Top The "Hospital Room Scene"? Can Anything Be As Messed Up?

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Postby pwhodges » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:09 am

That almost makes me want to revise my version a bit... (don't worry, I won't).
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Re: Will Anno Try To Top The "Hospital Room Scene"? Can Anything Be As Messed Up?

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Postby Joseki » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:16 am

@Celepito

I like your scenario and the callbacks to 2.0, but there are two things :

1) In 3.0 Kaworu took Shinji's DSS Choker and died for him, basically he was Shinji's personal Jesus who died for his sins, if he were to wear another choker in 3.0+1.0 Kaworu's biblical analogy will be devalued to the point of being pointless.
2) If Kaworu's death and the guilt he feels made Shinji unresponsive to the point of being unable to talk wouldn't he also be too passive to even attempt suicide?
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