C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only.

Moderator: Board Staff

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 71
Posts: 9870
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:12 am

Or at least, consequences like or approaching those ones. And the answer is, no he didn't, and we are even shown that through the fact that Misato, for instance, didn't either until it was too late.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: Why do I have to deal with these Titans as well as Angels? (details); Past avatars.
Can't wait for 3.0+1.0? - try Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

Asuka'sBigBrother
Gaghiel
Gaghiel
User avatar
Age: 18
Posts: 363
Joined: Oct 20, 2017
Location: Nueva Yorke
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:24 pm

View Original PostGob Hobblin wrote:It's not accidental: his desires and his feelings were 100% true in that moment. The question is whether or not he knew that his feelings in that moment would have actual consequences.

didn't he say "you can all die!" before killing everyone?
Just a big bro looking out for sistah

Mess with this crew, and I'll give you a blister

C.T.1290
Banned
Age: 27
Posts: 360
Joined: Apr 22, 2017
Location: Pit of Hate
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby C.T.1290 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:35 pm

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:didn't he say "you can all die!" before killing everyone?

He did, yes. And I believed he was in the right for initiating Third Impact. Since no one ever gave a damn about him, "they can all just die!"

And I'm wondering if he would be better off being alone with no one to bother him, or to give him any troubles, or even to hurt him.
"Who dares to summon the master of masters, the deliverer of darkness, the Shogun of sorrow, Aku!?"-Aku

"KONO DIO DA!"-Dio

Asuka'sBigBrother
Gaghiel
Gaghiel
User avatar
Age: 18
Posts: 363
Joined: Oct 20, 2017
Location: Nueva Yorke
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:36 am

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:. And I believed he was in the right for initiating Third Impact.

:facepalm:
Just a big bro looking out for sistah

Mess with this crew, and I'll give you a blister

C.T.1290
Banned
Age: 27
Posts: 360
Joined: Apr 22, 2017
Location: Pit of Hate
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby C.T.1290 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:44 am

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote::facepalm:

Got something you want to say?
"Who dares to summon the master of masters, the deliverer of darkness, the Shogun of sorrow, Aku!?"-Aku

"KONO DIO DA!"-Dio

Gob Hobblin
First Ancestor
First Ancestor
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 4228
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Behind the Door of Kukundu
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gob Hobblin » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:17 am

Your misanthropy is getting exhausting, CT.

ABB: How many times, as a child, did you scream that you wanted to die, or that you wanted someone to die, or you wanted everyone to die, when you were miserable?

Children have a very loose concept of consequence: him simply saying "I want you all to die" does not mean he knew or understood that his desires or statements would lead to results, or what those results would be.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
-Sorrow

Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

Reichu
Space-Time Teratoma
Space-Time Teratoma
Posts: 23008
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Lost in Bat Country
Gender: Female
Contact:

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:40 am

By the time Shinji was thinking he wanted everyone to die, he was a puddle of sludge (again) whose relationship with reality had been completely broken. He had just been talking to a bunch of dead people and replaying memories and in a state of being where absolutely none of this insanity was being questioned. Kind of like dreaming, really, except most dreams aren't prefaced with you being psychologically and physically tortured to the point that your body spontaneously destroys itself. Then you get tortured some more.

I don't think this is a "child" thing so much as a "being very deliberately poked and prodded into providing the crucial piece of a disastrous metaphysical reaction, while being in absolutely no state to know about this on any remotely meaningful level, and hence not having any idea that gods are spelunking around in your soul for emotions they can use to power the apocalypse".

Gob Hobblin
First Ancestor
First Ancestor
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 4228
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Behind the Door of Kukundu
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gob Hobblin » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:07 am

No, I agree: Shinji was emotionally and mentally broken to the point that he was unable to be trusted with anything, even if he HAD been a paragon of good decisions prior to that.

You can't factor out the fact that he is a child, and that in and of itself also has a big effect on one's decision making ability (in terms of decisions with short-term ramifications, much less apocalyptic ones!). When combined with the breaking he received, it's really not surprising what he said. I doubt, however (based on what you said, Reichu, and what I feel regarding his maturity), that he stated that with the active intention and idea that the world would die.

It's a difference between, say, manslaughter and murder, but it does matter a huge deal.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
-Sorrow

Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

Asuka'sBigBrother
Gaghiel
Gaghiel
User avatar
Age: 18
Posts: 363
Joined: Oct 20, 2017
Location: Nueva Yorke
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:44 am

View Original PostGob Hobblin wrote:I doubt, however (based on what you said, Reichu, and what I feel regarding his maturity), that he stated that with the active intention and idea that the world would die.

This might be supported by the tv version of events. I recall some dialogue suggesting he didn't know this would be the result of him getting what he wanted.
Got something you want to say?

Being neglected by some poeple(who except for mom and dad, have no obligation to give you attention), does not justify killing everyone. That's might be the most asinine thing I've heard, well, ever.
Just a big bro looking out for sistah

Mess with this crew, and I'll give you a blister

Gob Hobblin
First Ancestor
First Ancestor
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 4228
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Behind the Door of Kukundu
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gob Hobblin » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:00 pm

This might be supported by the tv version of events. I recall some dialogue suggesting he didn't know this would be the result of him getting what he wanted.


Indeed! In fact, remember how Lilith broke through Shinji's AT Field: she used a projection of Kaworu.

That means she still had to convince Shinji to let down his guards, which indicates he was not truly suicidal, or intent on bringing about an act of destruction. He demonstrated a wish, but with no clear idea of it's consequences.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
-Sorrow

Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

C.T.1290
Banned
Age: 27
Posts: 360
Joined: Apr 22, 2017
Location: Pit of Hate
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby C.T.1290 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:39 pm

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:Being neglected by some poeple(who except for mom and dad, have no obligation to give you attention), does not justify killing everyone. That's might be the most asinine thing I've heard, well, ever.

It is justified when some people, regardless of whom, has done nothing but made him miserable, so he chose to share his misery with others.

No one gave a damn about him. He was despised by everyone, similar to how I was being despised by everyone on this site right now as of late.

So, because of that, and seeing how none of the characters were that great anyway, he made the right choice to end everything and everyone. Plus, I don't think I really like the characters as I used to, so why should we care if they were killed off?

But never mind what this dumb, obstinate, unpleasant, and annoying person has to say, he doesn't matter to anyone anyway.
"Who dares to summon the master of masters, the deliverer of darkness, the Shogun of sorrow, Aku!?"-Aku

"KONO DIO DA!"-Dio

Guy Nacks
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Posts: 2935
Joined: Nov 28, 2012
Gender: Male

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:04 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:No one gave a damn about him. He was despised by everyone


Rei II and III despised him?
Misato despised him?
Maya despised him?
Ritsuko despised him?
Kaji despised him?
Aoba despised him?

Side note: Asuka doesn't really despise him inasmuch as she despises herself for having romantic feelings for him. She despises the fact that he doesn't take the initiative and "man up" to make more romantic overtones towards her.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

C.T.1290
Banned
Age: 27
Posts: 360
Joined: Apr 22, 2017
Location: Pit of Hate
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby C.T.1290 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:13 pm

^Her having romantic feelings for him?

That's laughable.
"Who dares to summon the master of masters, the deliverer of darkness, the Shogun of sorrow, Aku!?"-Aku

"KONO DIO DA!"-Dio

Guy Nacks
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Posts: 2935
Joined: Nov 28, 2012
Gender: Male

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:22 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:^Her having romantic feelings for him?

That's laughable.


If you come away from the show thinking that Asuka is not attracted to Shinji, then you failed to read the subtext, or even the outright text of what's onscreen, such as:

-the "Wall of Jericho" scene, where she clearly wanted him to come over to her side of the room and sleep with her, or at least make some kind of an advance.

-She applauds him and is charmed by his cello playing, which culminates in the very next scene of her wanting to kiss him. Her saying that she's bored is merely a way of her obscuring her true feelings for him--again, like the "Wall of Jericho" scene, she is giving him an opportunity to make a move and take their relationship to a higher level.

The above two points are confirmed in 22' when she expresses frustration in her mindrape sequence that he did not take her up on the romantic advances that she was offering him. Shinji was most likely too clueless and/or scared to recognize them as romantic advances and thus didn't "hold her" or "help her".

There's also the scene in EOE where she says to him: "If I can't have you all to myself, then I don't want anything from you!"
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

Gob Hobblin
First Ancestor
First Ancestor
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 4228
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Behind the Door of Kukundu
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gob Hobblin » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:23 pm

Her hatred of Shinji was because it seemed he didn't reciprocate her feelings: she wanted him to help her, and he never did.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
-Sorrow

Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

C.T.1290
Banned
Age: 27
Posts: 360
Joined: Apr 22, 2017
Location: Pit of Hate
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby C.T.1290 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:32 am

View Original PostGob Hobblin wrote:Her hatred of Shinji was because it seemed he didn't reciprocate her feelings: she wanted him to help her, and he never did.

Would things turn out differently if he did take the initiative? And things would have been better between them?
"Who dares to summon the master of masters, the deliverer of darkness, the Shogun of sorrow, Aku!?"-Aku

"KONO DIO DA!"-Dio

Mr. Tines
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar
Age: 60
Posts: 20060
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
Location: This sceptered isle.
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:47 am

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:The above two points are confirmed in 22' when
Anno got the ideas for Asuka he added into the DC retcon from a doujin he read. The original is, I believe intentionally, much more ambiguous.
Reminder: Play nicely <<>> My vanity publishing:- NGE|blog|Photos|retro-blog|Fanfics|G+|MAL
Avatar: Etoh Mei (b. 9-May-2018)

Asuka'sBigBrother
Gaghiel
Gaghiel
User avatar
Age: 18
Posts: 363
Joined: Oct 20, 2017
Location: Nueva Yorke
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:21 am

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:It is justified when some people, regardless of whom, has done nothing but made him miserable, so he chose to share his misery with others..

All people are responsible for some people's actions?

And why should his misery trump everyone else's interests?

Just stop CT.
Just a big bro looking out for sistah

Mess with this crew, and I'll give you a blister

Blockio
Clockiel
Clockiel
User avatar
Age: 19
Posts: 407
Joined: Dec 03, 2017
Location: the Land of NERV's third branch
Gender: Male

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Blockio » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:27 am

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:
Just stop CT.

Thank you.
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ sadly not Mari in Q (Joseki)

What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu

Guy Nacks
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Posts: 2935
Joined: Nov 28, 2012
Gender: Male

Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Guy Nacks » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:00 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Anno got the ideas for Asuka he added into the DC retcon from a doujin he read. The original is, I believe intentionally, much more ambiguous.


Holy shit. I must've missed this during the yearlong sabbatical I took from the forums.

Looking at this, it becomes apparent that Anno pretty much directly lifted certain cuts from this doujin and used them in 22'. I love the doujin imagery that has Asuka routinely coming up against AT-field barriers against other people, particularly that of the dividing wall between her and Shinji from episode 9.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996


Return to “Evangelion Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests