Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

A subforum for discussions about Film, TV, and Videos.

Moderators: New Moderators, Board Staff

Ray
Banned
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 6638
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:20 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Last night a cosmic spacefaring whale-like spirit came to me in a dream and said DC should reboot the DCCU with Tom Hanks portraying Superman.


Tom Hanks is too old. Maybe they could have him play Kingdom Come Superman.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8644
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:32 pm

I saw Black Panther this afternoon. It's a strong drama that says something about real world issues and takes some risks to do so, and a great action movie. The script is really tight and the direction and pacing are excellent. Marvel is really stepping up their game between Ragnarok, this movie, and Civil War.
the prophecy is true
The wish for respectability, observed spiritual teacher Jiddu Krishnamurti, is the greatest deterrent to selfhood and progress.

Guy Nacks
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Posts: 2943
Joined: Nov 28, 2012
Gender: Male

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:43 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:I saw Black Panther this afternoon. It's a strong drama that says something about real world issues and takes some risks to do so, and a great action movie. The script is really tight and the direction and pacing are excellent. Marvel is really stepping up their game between Ragnarok, this movie, and Civil War.


It also has the best soundtrack of any Marvel film.

Yeah, this was a blast. I particularly enjoyed the fact that there was a lot of moral ambiguity on the part of some of the "good guy" characters, plus they wrote a main villain that had probably the most justified motivation of any of the Marvel villains.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8644
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:51 pm

They took the "Marvel origin movie" formula of "Hero has badass moments, has a big fight, loses their powers, has to get them back in a moment of personal crisis, and fights a guy with the same suit/powers" and made it really fresh and well executed. Of all the 'first' Marvel movies I think this is the most solid since Iron Man. So far Black Panther is the only sub-franchise that got its feet under it right from the very start without having to work to find itself the way Thor and Cap did.

And yeah, Michael B. Jordan was phenomenal. The entire cast was on the level of Angelical Houston and Forrest Whitaker which is fucking saying something. Letitia Wright put in a fantastic performance for such a young actor.

Plus I really liked how they created a sense of a living, breathing African "Atlantis" that neither fetishes the aesthetics of African cultures nor subtly implies that being super-advanced means acting white.

Also Andy Serkis is fucking hysterical and I hope
SPOILER: Show
that his not being in frame when he was killed and never seeing his body when Killmonger delivered it means he can return.

Also, this movie actually made me take the name Killmonger seriously. That's as big a deal as if GotG 2 had made Taserface's name not sound ludicrous.
the prophecy is true
The wish for respectability, observed spiritual teacher Jiddu Krishnamurti, is the greatest deterrent to selfhood and progress.

Guy Nacks
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Posts: 2943
Joined: Nov 28, 2012
Gender: Male

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:58 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:They took the "Marvel origin movie" formula of "Hero has badass moments, has a big fight, loses their powers, has to get them back in a moment of personal crisis, and fights a guy with the same suit/powers" and made it really fresh and well executed.


SPOILER: Show
They also basically gave the villain a Batman-like origin story, and he's really only the "villain" mainly because of his grudge against our established hero's father for murdering his dad. It's fantastic, and you really feel sympathy for him.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8644
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:02 pm

SPOILER: Show
The movie is an essay on why the "dark" version of Batman etc. evinces weakness, not power.

Even though the movie ends with a duel, the ending is ultimately about a superhero who wins without fighting. Or at least does something about his signature issue without fighting.
the prophecy is true
The wish for respectability, observed spiritual teacher Jiddu Krishnamurti, is the greatest deterrent to selfhood and progress.

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8644
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:53 pm

I’m rewatching Justice League.

They just have recut the shit out of this movie. How did Bruce grow a full beard flying from Gotham City to Iceland?

Makes me really wonder what happened in the original version. Something made him stop being Batman?
the prophecy is true
The wish for respectability, observed spiritual teacher Jiddu Krishnamurti, is the greatest deterrent to selfhood and progress.

Ray
Banned
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 6638
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:59 am

What Else can you expect from WB at this point? It was f*cked from the start, and all they could do was Frankenstein it and hope it would be better received than the last one, and then move forward from there.

Not that there's likely to BE a forward to move on to.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8644
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:47 pm

Well, we can agree that it was fucked at the start. :devil:

What the can do now is do a Crisis movie and reboot. That introduces your audience to the concept of "These are the same characters portrayed by the same actors but they're different people".

Then you make a DC Universe film series where Batman and Superman have no solo films, are older than the main characters of most of the main characters, and are portrayed by seasoned actors, which the exception of Diana who is immortal and always looks the same anyway.

Instead of trying to ape Marvel with a "present at the creation" storyline where they make a movie about one superhero in a vacuum leading to the explosive birth of a universe ("I'm here to talk to you about the Avengers Initiative" style) they make some movies about new inexperienced heroes set in an existing universe.

I'd make it with a sliding time scale so that the Reeves/Donner Superman movies and Burton Batman movies are vaguely implied to be part of the backstory with no specifics confirmed, only broad strokes, and flesh out the backstory later with period piece movies if there is sufficient interest. If I had a magic wand (doubt he'd do it, but since we're speculating) I'd bring Keaton back as an ex-Batman Bruce Wayne leading a Batman initiative and supporting other superheroes while Tom Hanks portrays a Superman who is a flying, godly Fred Rogers.

That way you can have your cake and eat it, too. You get your Batman without making it about him and you can have your Superman spectacle without dealing with all those thorny issues that hollywood is too scared to touch, like human nature or Superman fighting slum lords and corrupt senators or famines, but you get the quasi-familiarity of a character like, say, Nightwing that people can connect to but aren't walking into theaters with a pre-conceived idea of.

I'd start this new DCCU with either a Nightwing movie, a Flash movie, or a movie where Batgirl and Power Girl team up. The movies would be totally self contained stories with sequel/continuity teases at the end and culminate in a two-part Teen Titans movie where they team up solve X threat but it ends on a cliffhanger and a nice prestige scene where the full Justice League show up for some sumptuous visual spectacle. Maybe focus it around Miss Martian/White Martians.
the prophecy is true
The wish for respectability, observed spiritual teacher Jiddu Krishnamurti, is the greatest deterrent to selfhood and progress.

AdamMalkovitch
Sachiel
User avatar
Age: 19
Posts: 235
Joined: Jul 23, 2017
Location: Gino's Pizzeria
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AdamMalkovitch » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:58 pm

Saw Black Panther Sunday afternoon, and I'm still in shock. I refuse to believe how good it was, especially after hating and being burned by superhero films since the mid 2000s. The cinematography, writing, characters, pacing and effects (except for the terrible looking cg rhinos) were all spectacular. I was concerned that I would have need to have watched Civil War again to understand what was happening, but unlike the majority of other recent Marvel films, this works on it's own as a self-contained narrative. The one reference to Civil War is fully explained and even shown on-screen, so new audiences won't be confused. The only things I didn't absolutely love were the aforementioned rhinos, and the forced "what're thooooose" joke in this otherwise incredible film, and yet, I still got enjoyment out of how bad those two very small elements were because the rest of the film put me in such a good mood. I'm very glad that modern racial tensions were, for the most part, left out, and only vaguely mentioned and eluded to by Killmonger, who I still think is a great "villain" in the same way Gendo is- he's only doing what he believes is right. Sure, he's being a dick about it, but this is his personal justice, he doesn't see himself as evil. All in all, if Homecoming, Civil War, Guardians Vol. 2, and this film are indicators of Marvel's future film quality, I may have to take back what I said about every superhero film being the same, tired narrative with the same recycled story beats under a different title, always playing it safe. I can't wait for Infinity War.
I've reached a point where I just generally don't give a fuck anymore. In a good way.

Ray
Banned
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 6638
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:02 pm

I doubt anyone would be able to get the mainstream audience on board with alternate universes and the multiverses. You need to have an established baseline before you can deviate from it with those kinds of stories.

As Dr Manhattan said

" they claim their desire is to build a heaven but their Heaven is full of horrors. It's too late, always has been, always will be. Too late"

DC and more specifically Superman will never be relevant ever again.

The pillars of the DC trinity are also the albatross around their neck. Because when you mess up one or several of them the entire universe and narrative falls apart by extension.

If Superman and Batman and Wonder Woman weren't around DC could focus on making likeable human characters out of smaller lesser-known ones. Characters without the lofty expectations and fan boy anger when they are inevitably messed up like the trinity

The reason Marvel succeeds does their characters are human beings the audience to connect to maybe the exception of Batman nobody can possibly connect with DC characters because they are gods. Because human beings are allowed to make mistakes, when a writer messes up with that sort of character the audience is more willing to forgive. Because they aren't meant to represent anything greater.

But if you mess up character you're supposed to look up to and see as inspiration for anything the audience will never forgive you.

Just forget it DC should just shelled everything for a decade but they aren't going to until we're going to be condemned to see DC and everything associated with it dragged through the mud and demean forever there's no hope never has been and never will be

Edit:

Tldr?

You have to have a " present at the start" kind of story to avoid confusing the audience. It's too soon to start asking they get on board with the Multiverse when there isn't even an established version of these characters in the pop culture yet.
Last edited by Ray on Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8644
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:54 pm

View Original PostAdamMalkobitch wrote:Saw Black Panther Sunday afternoon, and I'm still in shock. I refuse to believe how good it was, especially after hating and being burned by superhero films since the mid 2000s. The cinematography, writing, characters, pacing and effects (except for the terrible looking cg rhinos) were all spectacular. I was concerned that I would have need to have watched Civil War again to understand what was happening, but unlike the majority of other recent Marvel films, this works on it's own as a self-contained narrative. The one reference to Civil War is fully explained and even shown on-screen, so new audiences won't be confused. The only things I didn't absolutely love were the aforementioned rhinos, and the forced "what're thooooose" joke in this otherwise incredible film, and yet, I still got enjoyment out of how bad those two very small elements were because the rest of the film put me in such a good mood. I'm very glad that modern racial tensions were, for the most part, left out, and only vaguely mentioned and eluded to by Killmonger, who I still think is a great "villain" in the same way Gendo is- he's only doing what he believes is right. Sure, he's being a dick about it, but this is his personal justice, he doesn't see himself as evil. All in all, if Homecoming, Civil War, Guardians Vol. 2, and this film are indicators of Marvel's future film quality, I may have to take back what I said about every superhero film being the same, tired narrative with the same recycled story beats under a different title, always playing it safe. I can't wait for Infinity War.


I didn't really feel that was left out so much as the film decided to put some thought into it rather than pander.
the prophecy is true
The wish for respectability, observed spiritual teacher Jiddu Krishnamurti, is the greatest deterrent to selfhood and progress.

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8644
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:40 pm

The Hollywood reporter is saying Whedon is off Batgirl.
the prophecy is true
The wish for respectability, observed spiritual teacher Jiddu Krishnamurti, is the greatest deterrent to selfhood and progress.

Ray
Banned
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 6638
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:11 pm

For once a DC director leaves and I'm actually okay with it.

From what I've been able to glean from the various articles about it what happened was that he was brought in to help " Salvage" Justice League and in exchange you would be given free reign on a solo DC movie. But only if the movie was a hit. And when it wasn't, both the studio and whedon lost out.

I like I said none of this matters anyway because they're doomed and they're never going to be able to compete with Marvel no matter how hard they try because they screwed the pooch so hard with JL.


Edit:
Midnight Edge gives their two cents on the whole When controversy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hMwAZX2eIio
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

Guy Nacks
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Posts: 2943
Joined: Nov 28, 2012
Gender: Male

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Guy Nacks » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:33 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:The Hollywood reporter is saying Whedon is off Batgirl.


Joss Whedon wrote:"...it took me months to realize I really didn't have a story."


This, coming from one of the most prolific script doctors of the '90s and one of the most prolific screenwriters in geekdom as a whole.

I don't know if any statement in the entertainment industry has ever been more riddled with bullshit.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

Ray
Banned
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 6638
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:16 pm

You could just do the Killing Joke except don't Paralyze her, and have her be the one to kick Jokers ass instead of Bats.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

Gendo'sPapa
God
God
User avatar
Posts: 4594
Joined: Oct 24, 2006
Location: Everywhere
Gender: Male

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:50 am

Shrug.

Whedon off Batgirl makes sense. He got the job before Wonder Woman became the biggest movie of last summer and Black Panther broke box office records last weekend. Those movies proved that not only can women & minority filmmakers handle giant blockbusters but that their presence can help make those films more appealing to broader audiences. If a white guy had directed Wonder Woman or Black Panther I really don't think either would have opened or done as well they did. By mere optics alone having a straight white male - let alone a straight white male with the recent allegations made against him - directing Batgirl instead of a female voice would have detrimentally hurt the film.

Frankly, while it might piss off Batman fanatics or people who can't look past their own myopic experiences, it should be female filmmakers who write &/or direct the first Batgirl movie. Women and minority filmmakers have always been looked over in this industry - women because they're "too fragile" or "not decisive enough" and minority filmmakers because "their ethnic views don't connect with broad (white) audiences", both arguments which have been proven to be false if the filmmaker as an individual had the vision - so it's great they're finally being Brough to the table in regards to these big jobs. Also, fyi, the toxic "This is political correctness BS, the right person should get the job" argument holds no sway because the assumption made by the person proposing it in scenarios such as this is ALWAYS that a famous straight white guy was really the best choice. Whedon exiting/being forced out of the project makes sense all things considered. He'll be fine. He'll either get another gig at DC, another film somewhere else (he did direct two movies that made north of $1.5 billion at the global box office each) or Netflix can write him a check for $300 million to make something. He'll be fine. Though if he really didn't have a story in place, it's not a good look for an industry where too few promising jobs are given to people in power who have no idea what they're doing.
Last edited by Gendo'sPapa on Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ray
Banned
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 6638
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:53 am

"This is political correctness BS, the right person should get the job" argument holds no sway because the assumption made by the person proposing it in scenarios such as this is ALWAYS that a famous straight white guy was really the best choice.


Is the 'no politics rule' not applicable anymore?

Also, while my opinion on the issues isn't exactly monochrome. I AM in opposition to what you say here. Mostly. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

Gendo'sPapa
God
God
User avatar
Posts: 4594
Joined: Oct 24, 2006
Location: Everywhere
Gender: Male

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:13 am

It's a complicated issue for sure. One that my Drunk-A-Bottle-Of-Red-Wine-Post-Intercourse-Can't-Go-To-Bed-So-I'm-Online can't approach with the correct nuance it needs and shouldn't derail the overall conversation here about comic book movies. For now though, I would say Whedon exiting Batgirl for someone else to take the gig is for the best. Regardless of whether he had a story or not.

On a lighter note, are they really going with The Untitled Deadpool Sequel as the title for Deadpool 2 cause if are did that would be AMAZING.

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8644
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:26 am

That’s a good point. Batgirl is a perfect vehicle for another female-helmed film.
the prophecy is true
The wish for respectability, observed spiritual teacher Jiddu Krishnamurti, is the greatest deterrent to selfhood and progress.


Return to “Film and Video”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests