[Game] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:08 pm

I was poking around the image files, and I had no idea that the "3 Shinjis" ending for Gendo was on the PSP version of NGE2? Could've sworn it was only on the PS2...makes me wonder how you access it :cringe:

Edit: Can you somehow access that Another World scenario (originally from the PS2 game), too, or are some of those just place-holder/left over Scenario titles? (It's St_t06.hpt etc, etc)

Interesting stuff, either way!
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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby Reichu » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:45 pm

The hosting site seems to be full of malware (my antivirus blocked at least one), and on top of that the download button (the "real one") does nothing for me (though it did say I could have the download if I put a very nice toolbar on my browser fi-- HAH, GET REAL). A quick search indicates that while people-who-aren't-me have managed to make the site work for them, it's still not without risk of infection and you have to "be careful". Could you host the file on a clean site, like Google Drive or something? It'd be greatly appreciated. Meantime I've removed the ZippyDrive link so nobody else stumbles into that mess unknowingly.

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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby pwhodges » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:16 am

I saw no problem with Zippyshare, nor have I in the past (and my malware checker is very fierce); but I know people upload dodgy files there.

I've taken the liberty of putting the file on my own server in case anyone wants a guaranteed clean download (and as the original link has been removed).
https://cassland.org/misc/eva_2_psp_pngs.zip
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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby deeRez » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:49 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:The hosting site seems to be full of malware (my antivirus blocked at least one), and on top of that the download button (the "real one") does nothing for me (though it did say I could have the download if I put a very nice toolbar on my browser fi-- HAH, GET REAL). A quick search indicates that while people-who-aren't-me have managed to make the site work for them, it's still not without risk of infection and you have to "be careful". Could you host the file on a clean site, like Google Drive or something? It'd be greatly appreciated. Meantime I've removed the ZippyDrive link so nobody else stumbles into that mess unknowingly.


Asking you to download some weird app makes me think it wasn’t the real download button you clicked. (It may have shifted around due to your screen resolution).

Or maybe when you clicked the real one it started downloading silently in the background and you perceived it as the button not doing anything?

Or if you have adblockers maybe they did a thing that if it detects ad blocking it hides the real button?

Or maybe 1 out of every 100 people that visits the site gets forced to install malware, unbeknownst to the other 99 for which it works fine.

In any case, pwhodges has provided a safe mirror!

pwhodges wrote:I've taken the liberty of putting the file on my own server in case anyone wants a guaranteed clean download (and as the original link has been removed).
https://cassland.org/misc/eva_2_psp_pngs.zip


Thank you so much, I appreciate it!
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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby Reichu » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:33 pm

@deeRez: It is quite possibly some kind of anti-AdBlocker weirdness. I had no idea what was going on and when my antivirus went off I got a bit jittery. I'm glad the site works for others, but I have no idea what the "trick" is and there are likely going to be others who have the same problem I did. So many kudos to pwhodges for providing a secure alternative! And -- I apologize for not mentioning this before -- to you especially for taking the time to rip the images. :thumbsup:

I must admit to being completely unfamiliar with GitHub lingo. I remember editing text directly from when I worked on the 3.0 translation collab, and it was quite straightforward. I'll have to look into what this master, fork, clone, etc., stuff is all about...

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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby Kira BB Yamato » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:13 am

I just downloaded the raw text files and have been editing them in Notepad++. I wish I could say I have more done than I do, but I don't. I try to chip away at it as much as I can in my spare time, but I have weekly projects this semester. Slow and steady, I guess.

It is a bit frustrating that I can't input apostrophes though. Any way around that?

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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby deeRez » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:49 am

View Original PostKira BB Yamato wrote:I just downloaded the raw text files and have been editing them in Notepad++. I wish I could say I have more done than I do, but I don't. I try to chip away at it as much as I can in my spare time, but I have weekly projects this semester. Slow and steady, I guess.


Make sure to get a GitHub account so I can add you as a collaborator!

View Original PostKira BB Yamato wrote:It is a bit frustrating that I can't input apostrophes though. Any way around that?


Sorry I forgot to explain this one! There is, you need to escape it by adding a backwards slash before the quotation mark:
\"
In and of itself, self-evident.

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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby Kira BB Yamato » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:40 pm

deeRez wrote:Make sure to get a GitHub account so I can add you as a collaborator!

Will do. Think I already have one.

Sorry I forgot to explain this one! There is, you need to escape it by adding a backwards slash before the quotation mark:
\"

So, for instance, 'Shinji\'s Room'?

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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby deeRez » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:53 pm

View Original PostKira BB Yamato wrote:Will do. Think I already have one.


Once you find what it is, message me the handle so I can add yah!

View Original PostKira BB Yamato wrote:So, for instance, 'Shinji\'s Room'?


Yes!
In and of itself, self-evident.

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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby Reichu » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:09 pm

I've tried looking up this local git cloning stuff, and the amount of unfamiliar jargon is a bit much. I have no idea what any of it means, and trying to get an answer for anything requires navigating yet more jargon. You said you gave me permission to modify the master, so is there any reason in particular why I shouldn't just do that? I've submitted a commit and looks like it went through.

What do I do with stuff like n%s$?

(I have no idea how to delete a fork, BTW. I wasn't even aware I'd successfully created one...)

Kira BB Yamato: Are your edits being committed online?

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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby Kira BB Yamato » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:59 pm

Reichu wrote:What do I do with stuff like n%s$?

Pretty sure %s is a pointer to a given subject. For instance, "%sを殺す" (not an actual example) should be, say, Kill Shinji ingame. It'll point to Shinji's name since he's the subject and add it in, so you'd want to put in 'Kill %s\0'. Correct me if I'm wrong, deeRez. I'm just guessing. Without knowing what it's referring to, it's hard to say.
\n indicates a new line. It's hard to judge when to use them since I don't really know what our rough character limit per line are - Japanese is a lot more consistent than English.
Only just sent him my GitHub account name earlier today, so I haven't tried any commits.


I'm not sure this is really a translation project yet, but I need direction. Think I should leave honorifics in or strip them out? Should I type in 'Shinji-kun' or 'Shinji'? Should it be 'Misato-san' or 'Misato'? I've never been able to decide on this.

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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby deeRez » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:46 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:I've tried looking up this local git cloning stuff, and the amount of unfamiliar jargon is a bit much. I have no idea what any of it means, and trying to get an answer for anything requires navigating yet more jargon. You said you gave me permission to modify the master, so is there any reason in particular why I shouldn't just do that? I've submitted a commit and looks like it went through.


Yes I later realized that, despite how useful it might be to learn git as a skill,
your time is limited and it's best to have you doing what you do best!

I've seen the recent commits and they look great! Keep up the good work! ^_^
Any typos that pop up I'll probably fix here and there, so don't worry too much about them!

View Original PostReichu wrote:What do I do with stuff like n%s$?


View Original PostKira BB Yamato wrote:Pretty sure %s is a pointer to a given subject.

Bingo!

Think of %s like _______ on forms. It just says that something else will go there.
So yes, when you translate, transfer the %s as-is.

Reichu wrote:(I have no idea how to delete a fork, BTW. I wasn't even aware I'd successfully created one...)


This is the fork/duplicate that is no longer maintained:
https://github.com/Reichu/nge_2_re

One of the answers has a pretty good picture-by-picture example of how to delete:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/113 ... rom-github

Kira BB Yamato wrote:It's hard to judge when to use them since I don't really know what our rough character limit per line are - Japanese is a lot more consistent than English.


Regarding \n (line breaks), for now do your best to match the position in Japanese.
Later we can go back and better rebalance the positions as we see how things wrap on screen, etc.

Kira BB Yamato wrote:I'm not sure this is really a translation project yet, but I need direction. Think I should leave honorifics in or strip them out? Should I type in 'Shinji-kun' or 'Shinji'? Should it be 'Misato-san' or 'Misato'? I've never been able to decide on this.


The text in the GitHub repo is mostly used for the menus.
With that said, to not overrun the menu's edge, avoid Last-names and Honorifics.

But, later when we get to cracking IMTEXT.BIN which is the meat of the dialogue, then yes, there I think it'd be fine to use honorifics.
In and of itself, self-evident.

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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby Kira BB Yamato » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:06 am

I made a commit. Not fully familiar with GitHub. Figured I should make it a separate branch, since I wouldn't want to overwrite anybody else's work. You can merge it if you like. Fortunately, I'm quite ill at the moment, so I should be able to get a lot of the tedious bits done soon. Like when they run through every character's name again and again and again.

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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby deeRez » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:48 am

View Original PostKira BB Yamato wrote:I made a commit. Not fully familiar with GitHub. Figured I should make it a separate branch, since I wouldn't want to overwrite anybody else's work. You can merge it if you like. Fortunately, I'm quite ill at the moment, so I should be able to get a lot of the tedious bits done soon. Like when they run through every character's name again and again and again.


Awesome work! I was going to ask you about merging. Okay I'll merge for you into master.
I'll rebase your branch against master as well so it has the latest changes in master that Reichu did.

All you'll have to do is a git pull origin HEAD on your branch.

Naturally there are some merge conflicts so this will take me a few minutes... (so it's best that you pause modifying your branch until I get these resolved!) :P

Example of a conflict:

Code: Select all

    0x002507D8: Data(DataType.String, 16, 'Neural Connection Cut\0', "神経接続切断\0"),
    0x002507D8: Data(DataType.String, 16, 'Sever nerve links\0', "神経接続切断\0"),


Not sure of the context (is it telling you it's been cut, or asking you to cut the neural connection) - but going to go with a slight mixture of both; we can visit this later: Cut Neural Links.
A clue is that most of the other lines around that memory region are all actions the player can take, so it's most likely asking the player to cut it.

I also wasn't sure about this one:

Code: Select all

  0x00252C40: Data(DataType.String, 16, 'Open Gaghiel\'s mouth\0', "ガギエルの開口\0"),
  0x00252C40: Data(DataType.String, 16, 'Gaghiel\'s mouth opens\0', "ガギエルの開口\0"),

Keep this one in mind for later I guess!

Also regarding capitalizing every word or not, I'm thinking maybe just the Eva glossary words?
In and of itself, self-evident.

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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby Reichu » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:56 am

Are the organization names going to be ALL CAPS? I never liked this stylization because it implies they're acronyms. Dan Kanemitsu, khara's in-house translator, doesn't put them in all caps, so I think "NERV" should be reverted back to "Nerv".

"Magoroku" is the correct spelling. I believe it was that way in my commit but got overwritten.

I can't remember what was going on 神経接続切断. There is another form of it that seems to be Misato giving the actual command, so this one is probably the pop-up confirming that it's occurred.

Re: "Open Gaghiel's mouth" -- it's been forever since I played the game, but as best I can remember the Gaghiel battle ends when this option finally comes up as an action to take.

EDIT: What format for Eva designations? Eva-## or Unit-##? I prioritize "Eva-##" because it's written right on them, and so end up with:

初号機 = Eva-01
エヴァ初号機 = Eva Unit-01

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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby deeRez » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:27 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Are the organization names going to be ALL CAPS? I never liked this stylization because it implies they're acronyms. Dan Kanemitsu, khara's in-house translator, doesn't put them in all caps, so I think "NERV" should be reverted back to "Nerv".

"Magoroku" is the correct spelling. I believe it was that way in my commit but got overwritten.

I can't remember what was going on 神経接続切断. There is another form of it that seems to be Misato giving the actual command, so this one is probably the pop-up confirming that it's occurred.

Re: "Open Gaghiel's mouth" -- it's been forever since I played the game, but as best I can remember the Gaghiel battle ends when this option finally comes up as an action to take.


I think you're right, and from a visual perspective, CAPS gets jarring on the eyes, which is probably why the official translations go with first-letter capitalization. For now don't stress too much about converting the existing things into the format. It's really a quick search/replace at the end.

If I get something wrong in a merge, feel free to edit it!
(I've reverted the Magoroku spelling)

Regarding 神経接続切断, I thought I saw someone translate the other variant already but it might have been me seeing things...

Kira BB Yamato I see you went with doing full-names, that's fine. We can revisit them later if they overpass the menu. :D

Regarding:
View Original PostReichu wrote:EDIT: What format for Eva designations? Eva-## or Unit-##? I prioritize "Eva-##" because it's written right on them, and so end up with:

初号機 = Eva-01
エヴァ初号機 = Eva Unit-01


If 初号機 means Unit-01 then go with Unit-01, but ultimately in the end, depending on how things fit into the menu, we might have to revisit this to try to shorten it someway.
In and of itself, self-evident.

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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby Kira BB Yamato » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:56 am

@Reichu: I'll defer to your judgment, sensei. A big part of why my own efforts went nowhere is because I'm just not that familiar with Evangelion, and that extends to this game. If you say something should be a different way, then that's how it should be.

Sorry about the Magoroku spelling. I often skip about and translate whatever lines catch my eye when I'm out with friends. It must have slipped my mind. How embarrassing.

Regarding '神経接続切断', I believe at the time I wasn't sure, so I went with 'Neural Connection Cut'. It can be either past tense or present tense. I'm fairly sure it's past tense, but without context, even a native speaker couldn't say for certain.

@deeRez: I go with full names when the full names are on the right side, but looking at some of the context here, that shouldn't be so. I'll make some quick corrections before class here.

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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby Reichu » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:09 pm

As I've been going through rodata, I've been taking notes on what seems to be used for what. I'll update this post later, I guess. Hoping this is at least moderately helpful to Kira.

Code: Select all

0x001B1540        Yes No (scenario selection screen?)
0x001B1880 to 0x001B1D9C Scenario descriptions
0x001B1E98 to 0x001B205C Scenario titles
0x001B236C to 0x001B24D0 Location names. Unsure of function, as they seem more specific than how things are labeled in actual game. For programmers' use?
0x001B24DC to 0x001B250C Save screen stuff?
0x001B2518 to 0x001B2540 Map screen stuff?
0x001B2548 to 0x001B2598 More save screen stuff?
0x001B2B84 to 0x001B2F34 Probably for the end-of-chapter battle reports narrated by Misato.
0x001B2F60 to 0x001B3248 Probably modify dialogue with other characters, like "how are you doing?" and "what do you think of [person]?". Will need to know exact context in order to translate properly; can only put in a rough approximation for now.
0x001B3254 to 0x001B3260 Debug on / off
0x001B326C        No idea. (Fire and fighting spirit? Wha?)
0x001B328C to 0x001B330C Character names. Basic forms. Used for character relationship graphs?
0x001B334C to 0x001B3544 Labels for friendly units, hostile units, facilities, etc., in the battle mode?
0x001B3810 to 0x001B390C Character names. The label that pops up when you approach someone in the open world?
0x001B391C to 0x001B3E40 Designate the speaker of dialogue in cut scenes.
0x001B3E7C to  0x001B64D0 Item menu; item names; item descriptions; text that appears when item is used.
0x001B64F0 to 0x001B6688 Runs through basic character names, Evas, and Angels, plus something called Theta-Alpha(??). Not sure what these are for.
0x001B6690 to 0x001B6AB0 Characters/Evas/Angels being addressed in different ways. Plugged into certain kinds of dialogue depending on who's talking and being talked to.
0x001B6ABC to 0x001B6B7C Need to check my notes. Will come back to this.
0x001B6BA0 to 0x001B6CF0 Classified Information categories. Probably used for in-game actions (ex., plugged into dialogue when you ask a non-player character about a specific classified topic), and not for the Confidential Information screen.
0x001B6D00 to 0x001B6D28 CI security levels.

[whole bunch skipped for now] 

0x001C920C to 0x001C9350 Characters being addressed in different ways. Plugged into certain kinds of dialogue depending on who's talking and being talked to.
0x001D5B48 to 0x001D6568 Pertain to "Anno AI" (settings applied to every chapter after the first, based on current stats and gameplay choices), IIRC.

[more skipped stuff]

0x001D77D8 to 0x001D8120 Dialogue choices for Leliel "battle". Starts with Shinji; ends with Kaworu.


Bunch of questions/concerns:

0) I've bumped into the honorifics that Kira mentioned. These look like the pieces of dialogue that get changed depending on who's speaking and who's being spoken to (some ranges of these catalogued above). It would be nice to keep honorifics here if possible.

1) Expanding acronyms, or leaving alone?- I've seen Kira expand, for example, instances of "JA" to "Jet Alone". Should it be left as "JA"?

2) Periods in acronyms?: For short ones like JA, UN, AT, and so on. Should it be A.T. Field or AT Field? My gut says to put the periods in, if for no other reason that there's an in-game stat called "A.T." and writing it that way makes it clearer what it's supposed to be.

3) "Prog."? - The shortened form of "progressive", "prog", is regularly spoken out loud in dialogue, so I don't think the period is necessary.

4) JA2 vs JA Prime: The latter is some nonsense I made up years ago, prior to playing NGE2, via a very colorful misinterpretation of what the 'kai' suffix could be translated as. Got popularized because it was on the wiki for so long (and is probably still there...), but the game indicates that "Jet Alone 2" is what the thing should be called in English.

5) 心の迷宮 (kokoro no meikyuu) refers to the EoTV-style cut scenes that can be triggered when certain conditions are met. Your character sits in the dark on a folder chair and monologues introspectively. Now, two ways to translate this. Poetically, as "labyrinth of the heart", or more fluently, as "emotional maze". I honestly prefer the former but space might be a limiting factor.

6) Name order in Asuka and Kyoko: Dan Kanemitsu handles the compound surnames by putting the Japanese one first, so it'd be "Asuka Soryu Langley" and not the more familiar "Asuka Langley Soryu". Since he actually works with khara, I like deferring to his choices when possible.

7) Specifically Japanese concepts like numerous food items. Leave them alone or try to approximate? Would be a lot easier to just write "bento" than get clumsy with "boxed lunch", and so on. It's the Internet age and any dorks who end up playing this can easily look up anything that sounds too exotic.

EDIT:

@Kira BB Yamato: S-sensei? :blush: I'm honored... My knowledge of this game is mostly limited to the PS2 version, unfortunately. I played around with the PSP version a little, but not enough to have a full appreciation for all of the changes and additions. It's been years since I touched either version as well, so my memory is hazy in a lot of places. So I have a lot of brushing up to do, myself!

@All: Capitalizing every word vs. not, I think this depends stylistically on where the text is to be used. Namely, is something being labeled? (Ex. List of items or attack choices.) Or is it a sentence (or a dialogue fragment meant to be inserted into a sentence)?

As is to be expected, some of the translations are much more straightforward than others. I've made some choices that aren't strictly 1:1, some of which are obvious liberties for aesthetic reasons (translating Ritsuko's scenario as "Female Inferno" instead of something more literal), others of which are required due to "lingual dissonances" (Japanese using English words in ways that make no sense in English, for instance). When these were done intentionally rather than accidentally, I can explain the reasoning if required; just ask if you see anything that makes you scratch your head.

The scenario title シバムラティックバランス (Shibamuratikku Baransu) is something I remember from the PS2 version. It looks like quite a bit of nonsense, but best I can figure is that it's supposed to be "Shibamuratic Balance". "Shibamura" as in the surname, and "-tic" as in the suffix (like "automatic"). Web searches turned up both Eva2 and a game called Gunparade March, also by Alfa Systems, so I assume it's some kind of company in-joke.

絶倫黒マムシ飲料 (currently translated "Unrivaled Black Mamushi Drink") seems to be a joke version of the real Red Mamushi energy drink.

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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby Kira BB Yamato » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:55 pm

Indeed, that list should be pretty helpful. I'll have to keep it on hand. Thank you.

Prog. vs Prog, I have no real preference. Having the period feels more natural to me.

Yeah, it should just be JA2. And yes, it is still on the wiki.

Speaking of specifically Japanese concepts, I don't know if it's in either of these files, but another roadblock for me was stuff like いただきます, ごちしょうさま, so on. Things that are distinctly Japanese. Didn't know what to do about those. And a bento is something more specific than a boxed lunch, I'd keep it as Bento. Let's be real, if they're interested enough in Evangelion to go out of their way to play this, they probably know what a bento is. Probably.

Also, sensei, I've noticed that you're putting in \ for apostrophes. It should be \'. 'A Woman\'s Fight' vs 'A Woman\s Fight'. If that wasn't you, or if I'm totally incorrect in the first place, I apologize. I took a crack at some of the missing scenario names, and I'm going to work on the smaller file that we're 60% through.

Reichu
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Re: [GAME] Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases

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Postby Reichu » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:14 pm

I just checked the Wiki, and amazingly I actually did update it to JA-2 already. Is there another place I'm forgetting about?

Yeah, that was my bad with regard to apostrophes. I misinterpreted the instructions. :sweatdrop: Thanks for pointing it out to me! I'll run a find and replace on those instances if nobody beats me to it.

Glad the breakdown helps! I should probably do one for the other file as well -- would go nice and quick. I can keep updating the previous post and provide notice in the thread when I've done so -- or would it be more convenient if a listing was maintained at the actual repository? (Let me know what you think, deeRez!)


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