Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby Joseki » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:30 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:Not even...someone like Asuka? Or Gendo?


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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:02 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:Not even...someone like Asuka? Or Gendo?


Asuka is a 10/10 person.
Gendo is another story.
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby Ray » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:20 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:More in the Anglosphere than in Japan, I believe. This already suggests that our reactions to him are coloured by our varied social prejudices.


Male Japanese Main characters come in two flavors. Uber Masculine neatheads like Goku or Jojo who always beat the bad guy by hammering him into a bloody pulp. Or weak, ineffectual, prone to wanking off over unconscious women, and crying all the time. They themselves are usually the ones getting hammered into a pulp. and neither shall there ever be balance between the two.

To answer the original post. Shinji doesn't deserve the hate. Nor do I think he is as hated as the OP makes him out to be. I think most people see him with Sympathy, and are more frustrated that the narrative around him doesn't allow him to succeed or BE a hero like those meatheads I mentioned. They're more frustrated that his character stagnates rather than moves forward.

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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby Jersey Jimmy » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:59 pm

No, not at all. The way I see Shinji, and I'm sure a lot of others here do as well, is as a person who realistically reacts to the situation he's in like a normal person would. Not every protagonist has to be a Fearless Battle-Hardened Badass(TM).
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:00 pm

Well, I'm guessing that Shinji isn't really deserving of the hate. Not as much as some of the other characters.

Or myself even.
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby pwhodges » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:16 am

We don't know you beyond what you write here - and I know well that we only expose a little of ourselves on forums such as this. So there's no justification for anyone to agree with you, if that's what you're looking for.
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:18 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:We don't know you beyond what you write here - and I know well that we only expose a little of ourselves on forums such as this. So there's no justification for anyone to agree with you, if that's what you're looking for.

You don't have to agree with me. I'm just aware that not many people on likes me very much. Like what Gob Hoblin said to me, I was considered annoying, obstinate, and maybe just plain stupid and thick headed. He and the others seem to think that, and maybe you do as well if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby Blockio » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:03 am

View Original PostJersey Jimmy wrote:No, not at all. The way I see Shinji, and I'm sure a lot of others here do as well, is as a person who realistically reacts to the situation he's in like a normal person would. Not every protagonist has to be a Fearless Battle-Hardened Badass(TM).

Exactly the reason I think he is one of the best protagonists I have seen in a long time. Sure, he is obnoxious and when I watched NGE for the first time, I wanted to hit him for every second sentence he said (but the second part goe for basically all characters on my first watch, so it evens out), but anything else simply wouldnt fit the show and what it stands for
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:46 am

@C.T.1290
I wouldn't care too much about what others think. If they are even thinking something.

Sure, he is obnoxious and when I watched NGE for the first time, I wanted to hit him for every second sentence he said (but the second part goe for basically all characters on my first watch, so it evens out)

I loved the characters from the first time I watched the show. I guess I'm just like them. I've never felt the frustration many people seem to feel.
I also wonder if it's a cultural thing.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby neongenesisvandelay » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:42 am

In NGE, his actions were a result of Nerve 'forcing' him to pilot the Eva. When he screwed up or did something wrong, I felt sympathy towards his situation and conditions.

In the Rebuild films, it's a bit more of a gray area; he consciously made the choice to kickstart the Third Impact by saving Rei, so some of the anger is probably justified.
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby CommieOtaku » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:01 pm

I relate way too much with Shinji to be able to like him, but then again I relate quite a lot with all of them. In the end, they all have issues and by the end of the story they have their problem "solved", if that's what you want to call it. All of them develop and share their personal issues and it would be foolish of us to despise them just because we don't understand or possibly don't want to face our very own cruel reality...
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby VUX » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:45 pm

No, people say that he cries in the corner like a wimp, but I bet a lot of people would be crapping their pants if they had to fight giant monsters like he does
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby Shinji Ikari Expy » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:36 pm

Re: Shinji's supposed wimpiness, I think most fans are remembering the first episode and EoE — which is understandable, but it kind of skews your perception. In Ep 1, he's wrestling not only with fear but resentment of his father, who is asking him to do something incredibly dangerous years after abandoning him. In EoE, he's suffering a total mental breakdown, and locked out of Unit 01 by the bakelite infusion (most people don't remember the bakelite).

For most of the series, Shinji is a dutiful soldier, and even shows flashes of cockiness ala the prototypical anime mech hero — though these flashes are usually followed by reality smacking some humility back into him.

Shinji is unusually vocal about his fear, in a way that most men would frown upon. This is part of his character, but I think it's also necessary for a television show. There would be little dramatic tension if he were stoic — how would the audience know what he is thinking otherwise?

All in all, he's braver than most people but he also whines a lot. Both of those things can be true.

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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby ShonHam » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:21 am

Honestly, I don't think he does. Shinji's actions (or rather lack of in some cases) are incredibly frustrating to sit through, sometimes infuriating in fact. But I can't find it in myself to hate him - mainly because his character's core is arguably the most human of all in the cast. We are selfish, we are cowardly, we do crumble under pressure and some of us do hate ourselves for said reasons. If anything, many of his decisions and ways of acting are very close to how many people in reality would act if put in the same set of circumstances, as much as we'd like to deny it.

The juxtaposition of Shinji's incredibly human state of mind in comparison to the much more 'anime' characters of the show is a make or break aspect of the series overall. But to me - he's relatable. Relatable characters are easy to sympathize with and harder to hate. I wanted to see Shinji move forward and progress, to stop hating himself and accept who he is. If you think about through this lense, he can potentially become your favourite.
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Postby Cowboy Unit-03 » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:33 pm

no.

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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby 天使 | Nyo | 天使 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:28 pm

...You freakin' kidding me!? No! Of course not! :shakehead:

Shinji was written to be as realistic and human of a character as possible. He was meant to (in GoatJesus' Words) "fling us back to a time where we're questioning how to operate in a world that treats us with cold indifference." I think it's a good thing for a writer to have their characters connect to their audience, no matter how real it is. :D

I think he gets a lot of hate for not fitting up to the cliche standards of modern anime protagonists, who are always strong, well determined to their goals, and never really seen as weak. Shinji is meant to parallel those kinds of characters, and in my opinion, is ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT because of that. He's LITERALLY the same as me (as I've stated in some of my other older posts), it's like looking into a mirror.

Just because a character is flawed, human, and admittedly weak (mentally and or physically) doesn't make them a bad character. People just have their own tastes when it becomes to anime characters.

I'm starting to feel with Anno on the Otaku "Waifu is laifu" sort of crap that's becoming more abundant in anime culture today (doesn't help that most modern-day anime lean towards this sort of crap.) :irked: That's just me though, it's been REALLY HARD getting into any other anime really SINCE Evangelion. A blessing and a curse I'd say. :lol:





Oh yeah, I may be a little biased. My favorite ship IS Shinji x Kaworu after all. :chuckles:
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby Akko » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:10 pm

People hate Shinji mostly because he acts and reacts like a real human, he's not like your typical shonen hero that will always put on a brave face, be eager to fight his enemies to get stronger or a power fantasy like Superman or Goku. He's a soldier but also a kid, a kid whose father abandoned him and now is forced to fight gigantic creatures to protect the world from ending and he's incredibly selfish and immature because he's still growing up and developing in a very unhealthy context.

People usually want to believe they're braver than they are, that they can face anything without breaking and that's why they look up to all those protagonists that reflect just that ideal so when they meet a protagonist like Shinji, they hate him because he reminds them of their own weaknesses. I don't think Shinji should be hated, he's a well written character and I feel people shoud start appreciatig realistic characters with weaknesses instead of projecting themselves onto power fantasies.
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Postby FransHalation » Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:49 pm

Yes. He's weak-willed and gets people killed because he can't move past his problems. People who defend this as being realistic always ignore that human beings have an urge to move heaven and earth for their loved ones.

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Postby Blockio » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:44 pm

I feel like there is a misunderstanding in intention here; this thread is about an out-of-universe perspective. By that reasoning, just about every character that is flawed in a narratively significant way is beyond redemption, which is obviously nonsense
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby Kendrix » Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:41 pm

View Original PostFransHalation wrote:Yes. He's weak-willed and gets people killed because he can't move past his problems. People who defend this as being realistic always ignore that human beings have an urge to move heaven and earth for their loved ones.


There are three problems with this:

a) That's the exceptional case/ survivorship bias. There are definitely always people who do better than average in sucky situations (and most protagonists tend to be such exceptional people because you generally point the camera where you have interesting unusual things going on), but most don't.
People always say they would have charged into the building guns blazing & took out the shooter, but we hear of very few cases of people actually doing it.
It's easy to say you'd do better in a chair in front of a screen, but it's much harder with your brain going into panic mode.
There's been cases of karate blackbelts being mugged or raped because they panicked & had an instinctive freeze reaction, even though they could kill with their bare hands.

The only straight-up hero is Mari (And she's a thrill-seeking adrenaline junkie, as panic-proof people tend to be IRL). in the og series Misato and Kaworu come the closest but each has their own complications, and most the character's aren't heroic at all. That's probably realistic proportions of heroes to average joes.

b) What loved ones?
He's highly isolated and doesn't have a single positive relationship that isn't somehow dubious or ambiguous.
The adults need him as a tool; His peers have their own shit going on or send mixed messages.
By the end, everyone is either dead or estranged.

Indeed, if he had a clear something or someone worth fighting for, we'd have a very different story, probably rather more like a standard shonen anime.

e) He's 14. That's still at the tail end of the range where it's perfectly normal to have childish behavior sometimes. If he was even one year older you could expect him to have full independent thought & discernment (if not very much experience) but as he is, you can expect it sometimes, but not consistently. . Like i generally tend to be in the camp that 15-year-olds are basically adults as they were considered for much of human history & should get to vote & have privacy rights; In my country Shinji could already go to jail & pick his own religion. I wouldn't say he's an uwu baby who can't help it. He definitely has some responsibility for his actions, (after all, the story is framed as his learning some lessons about himself & the world) but it makes no sense to judge him like a grown man when he's only just acquired the capacity for critical thinking.

Most well-organized countries would not put him on a battlefield, and yet he's put through the sort of shit that would give grown men PTSD & even the worst of his actions are consistent with the kind of things that happen very frequently in real wars.
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