In defense of the Tunniel fight

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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In defense of the Tunniel fight

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Postby Blockio » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:22 pm

It has been said numerous times in various threads that Maris first appearance is unnecessary if not counterproductive for 2.0, when it actually serves as exposition for some quite major changes to NGE (on top of being brilliantly executed, but thats just personal opinion and not based on any facts):
First of all, it establishes something very important with the first look we get off Unit 05: all limbs can be replaced with mechanical prosthetics, and the Eva is still able to operate - which, as we all know, will become very important in Q with Unit 02's new mechanical arms.
Second, which becomes apparent in the Zeruel fight and in Q: Pilots are no longer strictly limited to one Evangelion Unit. This is probably the biggest change to the original series, since it basically throws everything we have learned about how an Eva works out of the window.
Third, and (if another theory of mine on the AAA WUNDER turns out to be true, but thats a topic for another day) even more important than the fact that Evas can have mechanical parts attached to them is the fact that this goes for angels as well, on top of humanity being able to detain and experiment on one in the first place without reducing it to embryonical state first - which may or may not become important in 4.0, seeing how the Wunder shows enough angelic properties to possibly be one (I have another post about this, so thats not going to be the main topic in this)
Fourth is that it is possible to deliberately trigger bersekr mode - which also a major thing that happened both in the Zeruel fight and in Q.
Last, and probably least important is that there are other branches of NERV other than first and second that have (or had) an operating Evangelion Unit.

So, all in all this scene may seem unrelated and random, maybe disappointing at first, but it actually excels at what it is supposed to do: Establishing things that are going to become important later on, foreshadowing if you will.
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Re: In defense of the Tunniel fight

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:03 pm

Having this scene deleted from the movie wouldn't help in any way. At some point we had to be introduced to Mari, and this way it creates higher expectation before the Zeruel fight, we know she'll do something crazy.
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Re: In defense of the Tunniel fight

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Postby Blockio » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:15 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:Having this scene deleted from the movie wouldn't help in any way. At some point we had to be introduced to Mari, and this way it creates higher expectation before the Zeruel fight, we know she'll do something crazy.

On top of that. I just left it out of the post, since the fight is a lot more than just character exposition for Mari
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Re: In defense of the Tunniel fight

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Postby unitM » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:38 am

I really liked the Tunniel fight, especially in the dub, it was violent and exciting. I guess if you think about it you’re right though, it showcased a lot of stuff we would see later, but would have no explanation into. Even some of the things like the different halo ability the angel used, Mari removing one of her Eva’s limbs to strengthen offense(Shinji cutting off Kaworu’s controls), and the violet religious setting where Mari killed the angel foreshadow the advancements in Q to a lesser extent.

That also makes me wonder, what happened to the other branches of NERV, did Gendo conquer them all?

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Re: In defense of the Tunniel fight

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Postby Cybermat47 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:13 am

I didn’t realise that the Tunniel fight needed to be defended. I love how it introduces Mari, the epic music, and how visually different it is from all the other fights we saw in NGE.

But before now, I never really took note of how the mechanical prostheses and the fact that Nerv captured an Angel might be. They certainly lend weight to your idea of the Wunder being an Angel (or Angel-like being).
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Re: In defense of the Tunniel fight

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:43 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:First of all, it establishes something very important with the first look we get off Unit 05: all limbs can be replaced with mechanical prosthetics, and the Eva is still able to operate - which, as we all know, will become very important in Q with Unit 02's new mechanical arms.
Second, which becomes apparent in the Zeruel fight and in Q: Pilots are no longer strictly limited to one Evangelion Unit. This is probably the biggest change to the original series, since it basically throws everything we have learned about how an Eva works out of the window.
Third, and (if another theory of mine on the AAA WUNDER turns out to be true, but thats a topic for another day) even more important than the fact that Evas can have mechanical parts attached to them is the fact that this goes for angels as well, on top of humanity being able to detain and experiment on one in the first place without reducing it to embryonical state first - which may or may not become important in 4.0, seeing how the Wunder shows enough angelic properties to possibly be one (I have another post about this, so thats not going to be the main topic in this)
Fourth is that it is possible to deliberately trigger bersekr mode - which also a major thing that happened both in the Zeruel fight and in Q.
Last, and probably least important is that there are other branches of NERV other than first and second that have (or had) an operating Evangelion Unit..

Why are any of these revelations meaningful for the story?
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Re: In defense of the Tunniel fight

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Postby Blockio » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:30 pm

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:Why are any of these revelations meaningful for the story?

First of all, theys establish that NTE will be different from NGE in more ways than updated visuals and some changes to the angels. Which was not the case in 1.0
Second, they foreshadow to some pretty major things in Q and possibly even more in Final that may become apparent in retrospect.
And third, all of those tthings had a pretty major impact on 2.0 and Q (no pun intended).
The first thing is mostly aesthetic, seeing Unit 02 with the mechanical arm and face really helps sell the feeling of Wille being at a disadvantage and not being able to simply regrow their Evas.
The second one I hopefully dont have to explain, seeing how the "one pilot per Eva" rule was one of the basic plot points of the show (yes, there are dummy plugs and the Shinji/Rei switching tests, but we all know how those played out).
The third one right now does not hold that much significance, but may become important in Final
As for the beast mode, in both 2.0 and Q it marked the point of "now sh*t is starting to go down for real", adding a lot to the overall intensity of the fights, on top of the obvious changes to what we until this point assumed was given - that the pilot can not simply let the Unit take control, but the Unit has to decide that itself.
The last point however, does not really hold any significance as of now, and I kind of doubt that this will change in Q - I just noticed it as a neat detail.

Another two things I did not mention because I purposely left Mari out of the post is that in comparison against any other way of introducing her as lighthearted and to some extent crazy character, we learn two very important things:
-she is planning something, and if she succeeds it will not end well for Nerv or the Eva Units (as confirmed by someone involved in the writen whos name I forgot in an interview)
-she knows a lot more about Evangelions that any other pilot, and possibly than anyone not directly involved in their creation
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ sadly not Mari in Q (Joseki)

What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu


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