Talking about guns in Evangelion

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Re: Talking about guns in Evangelion

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Postby Snow » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:04 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Why? They were still in use in real life 2015. The primary weapon issued to US troops is an over fifty year old design and most rifles and pistols still in use are only minor improvements on the same handful of operating mechanisms. Evangelion's tech outside the Evas themselves isn't futuristic enough to call for caseless ammunition or laser pistols and they'd just copy real world designs for those anyway.


This does look like a rifle using caseless ammunition, though.
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Last edited by Snow on Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talking about guns in Evangelion

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Postby Chuckman » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:34 am

I love it when people who don't know what a gun looks like draw guns.
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Why do Evas even use firearms if they don't work?

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Postby VUX » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:05 pm

I don't understand why Evangelions are issued firearms when they don't work half the time.
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Re: Why do Evas even use firearms if they don't work?

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Postby Sachi » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:45 pm

View Original PostVUX wrote:I don't understand why Evangelions are issued firearms when they don't work half the time.

For that other half of the time that they do work. A firearm was absolutely necessary for Ramiel. A firearm took down Matarael. Good technology to have around, even if the usefulness is sporadic.
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Re: Why do Evas even use firearms if they don't work?

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Postby Hark » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:47 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:A firearm took down Matarael. Good technology to have around, even if the usefulness is sporadic.

indeed , i think the same is true for mundane weapons such as blades aswell.
best to have them around but not always needed or useful
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Re: Why do Evas even use firearms if they don't work?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:53 pm

It usually depends on how strong an angel's AT field is.

Even though they don't kill angels instantly, the pallet rifles are usually used to bring down their AT fields before destroying their cores; kinda like their health bar, so to speak. Their field can only take so much damage before it's neutralized.

Matarael's was obviously the weakest while Zeruel had the strongest one, making him the tough nut to crack.
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Re: Why do Evas even use firearms if they don't work?

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Postby Blockio » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:34 pm

Aside from Ramiel, all angels would have been possible in some way without firearms, so Id just say its to please all the military stuff who waste millions of dollars worth of ammunition on every single angel anyway.
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Re: Why do Evas even use firearms if they don't work?

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Postby AuraTwilight » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:17 am

Better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it.
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Re: Why do Evas even use firearms if they don't work?

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Postby VUX » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:30 pm

You're right, but how much do you think the weapons would cost to make?
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Re: Why do Evas even use firearms if they don't work?

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Postby Bryan » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:12 pm

Even if they weren't useful vs. the Angels, they would've been damn useful against the Seele invasion. You know, if the Evas were actually able to be used at the time.

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Re: Why do Evas even use firearms if they don't work?

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Postby Lyrical » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:59 am

They also didn't know exactly what the Angels would be like. Sure, they knew AT Fields would probably make conventional weapons pointless, but for all they know, all the Angels were gonna be like Matarael — defended, but still vulnerable to guns under the right circumstances.

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Re: Why do Evas even use firearms if they don't work?

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Postby AuraTwilight » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:24 am

View Original PostVUX wrote:You're right, but how much do you think the weapons would cost to make?


Does it matter? NERV has an infinite budget.
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Re: Why do Evas even use firearms if they don't work?

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Postby Blockio » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:29 pm

View Original PostAuraTwilight wrote:Does it matter? NERV has an infinite budget.

Acually, they dont have an infinite budget. ITs talked about multiple times in the later episodes
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Re: Why do Evas even use firearms if they don't work?

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Postby Reichu » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:58 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:Aside from Ramiel, all angels would have been possible in some way without firearms

Reminds me of my times playing NGE2 when Eva-01 would go berserk during the Ramiel fight and take it down all by herself.

But this being a cheap-skate video game, of course they aren't kind enough to actually depict such a spectacle in any meaningful way. Nope, all you get is the boring tactical map view, and 01's icon rushing repeatedly at Ramiel's icon until the latter erupts into a burning cross.

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Re: Why do Evas even use firearms if they don't work?

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Postby Tollazor » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:43 pm

Look at WW2 and how assests were used in that to give some potential answers:

Why have soldiers rush a machine gun nest when they will just get mowed down?
Why have soldiers shoot at heavily fortified bunkers whilst pushing forward, the vast majority of shots will hit nothing with the occasional hitting of a target, which can often be quickly replaced?
Why do a range of seemingly ineffective actions?

There are several reasons usually.

The main one being that it is a distractor. Even though resisting the attack is trivial, it must be responded to. If the defender was to do nothing, they would be overrun. This means some resources are being used to protect against a extremely ineffective attack.
By doing this it means the enemy cannot have complete free reign and is at least partially under control.

Attempt for threat control: So firing weapons at angels requires the angels to have their AT field effectively deployed, there are many references of angels increasing/turning on/expanding their AT fields. Presumably this means it has some sort of energy cost to the angel, that it must use some amount of resource to maintain. So firing weapons at angels forces this situation to happen, a partial level on control by NERV and friends.

Distraction: By responding to the trivial threats, the angel is partially engaged, allowing for a potentially more effective engagement by the EVA's.

Information gathering: Sometimes the angels are seen engaging trivial threats and sometimes they completely ignore it. From NERV and firends perspective, they don't know what the angel is going to do so engaging with conventional weapons at least provokes some sort of response (or lack thereof) which gives some information about the angel.

There are probably more reasons, a Defense Force officer could probably go into great detail as to why these things are done.

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Re: Why do Evas even use firearms if they don't work?

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Postby Blockio » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:05 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Reminds me of my times playing NGE2 when Eva-01 would go berserk during the Ramiel fight and take it down all by herself.

But this being a cheap-skate video game, of course they aren't kind enough to actually depict such a spectacle in any meaningful way. Nope, all you get is the boring tactical map view, and 01's icon rushing repeatedly at Ramiel's icon until the latter erupts into a burning cross.

Wait, really? Seems like I have to go get that game...

Tollazor wrote:Look at WW2 and how assests were used in that to give some potential answers:

Why have soldiers rush a machine gun nest when they will just get mowed down?
Why have soldiers shoot at heavily fortified bunkers whilst pushing forward, the vast majority of shots will hit nothing with the occasional hitting of a target, which can often be quickly replaced?
Why do a range of seemingly ineffective actions?

There are several reasons usually.

The main one being that it is a distractor. Even though resisting the attack is trivial, it must be responded to. If the defender was to do nothing, they would be overrun. This means some resources are being used to protect against a extremely ineffective attack.
By doing this it means the enemy cannot have complete free reign and is at least partially under control.

Attempt for threat control: So firing weapons at angels requires the angels to have their AT field effectively deployed, there are many references of angels increasing/turning on/expanding their AT fields. Presumably this means it has some sort of energy cost to the angel, that it must use some amount of resource to maintain. So firing weapons at angels forces this situation to happen, a partial level on control by NERV and friends.

Distraction: By responding to the trivial threats, the angel is partially engaged, allowing for a potentially more effective engagement by the EVA's.

Information gathering: Sometimes the angels are seen engaging trivial threats and sometimes they completely ignore it. From NERV and firends perspective, they don't know what the angel is going to do so engaging with conventional weapons at least provokes some sort of response (or lack thereof) which gives some information about the angel.

There are probably more reasons, a Defense Force officer could probably go into great detail as to why these things are done.

Now THIS is what I call a valid argument, although I dont think all of the points mentioned can be applied here, given that infantry charges usually were pretty massive and the most Evas we ever see deployed against an angel are three, so the distraction part only really comes into play when the Evas are approaching from multiple directions (which we see like... once? Twice?). The point about testing out their strength and reaction to incoming fire however is probably the best reason given in this entire thread
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Re: Why do Evas even use firearms if they don't work?

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:33 am

If it wasn't for the guns, the human species would have went extinct early on and we wouldn't have a show.
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Re: Why do Evas even use firearms if they don't work?

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Postby Blockio » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:11 pm

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:If it wasn't for the guns, the human species would have went extinct early on and we wouldn't have a show.

I fear I dont quite get what exactly you mean by that :/
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Re: Talking about guns in Evangelion

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Postby Blockio » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:40 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Why? They were still in use in real life 2015. The primary weapon issued to US troops is an over fifty year old design and most rifles and pistols still in use are only minor improvements on the same handful of operating mechanisms. Evangelion's tech outside the Evas themselves isn't futuristic enough to call for caseless ammunition or laser pistols and they'd just copy real world designs for those anyway.

Even better example (also answers the question of "Why Iowa-class battleships?"): The primary stationary anti-aircraft gun of many countries is the Swedish Bofors 40mm, which was first built in 1931 and is still in use today on AC-130 gunships. So yes, vintage-looking weapons are completely reasonable, even when there are 80 meter tall biomechs running around.
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Re: Talking about guns in Evangelion

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:41 pm

Unit 08's handguns seem like fairly normal guns scaled up to giant size and they're able to blow the head clean off an Eva in a couple shots. But then you have that sniper rifle which looks like it has a traffic light mounted on the end of the barrel.
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