EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:24 am

^

Yes: unless your friend gave him explicit permission before hand that it was okay to initiate sex with her while she was asleep, then it wasn't with her consent, and that is rape: no ifs, ands, or buts.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby Princess Asuka » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:54 pm

To be honest, I don't know if my friend gave him consent or not. But, we both agree that he's an asshole. The sad part is that I bet he's found some other girl to use, abuse, and manipulate. :irked: I also have my suspicions that he might have cheated on me with this girl who bullied me cause he once tried to ask for my permission to see her and I was like fuck no. My mom said that she once spoke with his mother and apparently this guy's whole family was fucked up and that he'll probably never end up with a normal healthy relationship.

Another question: Two years ago one of my ex boyfriends lied and cheated on me with another girl while still being with me at the time. He eventually did apologize to me for what he did and he said he felt guility about everything. Anyhow, we're friends again and we occasionally talk on facebook. The weird part is though I actually forgave him for everything which is something I thought I'd never be able to do. Is it normal to find the strength to forgive someone after they did something so bad like lying and cheating?
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby ran1 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:19 am

View Original PostPrincess Asuka wrote:Another question: Two years ago one of my ex boyfriends lied and cheated on me with another girl while still being with me at the time. He eventually did apologize to me for what he did and he said he felt guilty about everything. Anyhow, we're friends again and we occasionally talk on facebook. The weird part is though I actually forgave him for everything which is something I thought I'd never be able to do. Is it normal to find the strength to forgive someone after they did something so bad like lying and cheating?


As a serial cheater, I can tell you that people's capacity to forgive always seems to match my inability to stay faithful. I think it does take a certain degree of strength in the sense that you've got to be a strong person to take cheating on the chin (if that's really a thing that matters to you, I find that it varies from person to person) but also -- I'd caution that strength and self-harm are often mistaken for one another. It's usually best for you and for them to divest from that relationship.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:03 am

I'm going to sound like a reactionary old git here, but...

The tales that two of our younger female contributors have told demonstrate that in my lifetime we've gone from a state where girls could suddenly get away with acting like, shall we say, actresses, but still maintain an appearance of respectability to one where they are pretty much required to act that way.

Related, possibly TMI  SPOILER: Show
View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:Not to blunt but what he did to your friend was rape as if your not awake or passed out for any reason then sex is not consenting and this applies to both genders.
What if both participants are asleep at the time? That happened to me the first couple of times I shared a (narrow single)bed with a girl -- spooning + male physiology will do that sort of thing.


View Original PostTheFriskyIan wrote:I never drank before but I was thinking vodka cause I was told it doesn't have a taste and I can just mix it in with Gatorade or something.
Everybody has to learn this the hard way, but drinking to get drunk is not a good thing to do. The aftermath is bad enough when you've been parting and having fun and end up getting completely hammered without planning it, but in this sort of situation where it would essentially be solitary pity party, it would be worse. Alcohol is a depressive drug, so you'll just get into a downward spiral. Then next day you'll regain consciousness (one hopes) feeling like shit and the problems are still there.

Just cut your losses and "Next!" her, even if you don't have an immediate new prospect.

View Original Postran1 wrote:As a serial cheater, I can tell you that people's capacity to forgive always seems to match my inability to stay faithful.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby jcmoorehead » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:11 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:
Related, possibly TMI  SPOILER: Show
What if both participants are asleep at the time? That happened to me the first couple of times I shared a (narrow single)bed with a girl -- spooning + male physiology will do that sort of thing.


That is... not even remotely close to the same thing? It's not about the male body reacting, if you're spooning your partner and get an erection then that's fair enough. Things like that happen. The difference is that in this persons case the guy decided whilst he was in that state to actually engage or attempt to engage in intercourse whilst the person was sleeping.

It's not about physiology it's about how you act during the situation.

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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby silvermoonlight » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:27 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:I'm going to sound like a reactionary old git here, but...

The tales that two of our younger female contributors have told demonstrate that in my lifetime we've gone from a state where girls could suddenly get away with acting like, shall we say, actresses, but still maintain an appearance of respectability to one where they are pretty much required to act that way.


No offence intended but this an awful statement to make and as a 80's child and a girl I was taught to always be lady like even when a guy came to me even if he sexually harassed me or did heavy petting because I was told getting angry was not lady like so you had to put on a show to get rid of these kinds of people and make out you had other places to be. This is a really bad thing period because it gives bad people the rein to do what they want to you and puts you in very dangerous situations where you can't fight back, so modern girls getting mad and angry and pushing people off and telling them to fuck off like they can now is not acting its genuine anger, because that's what it takes sometimes to protect yourself.
Last edited by silvermoonlight on Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:17 am

Yeah, I'm going to have to pile on to this: you're off the base here, Tines.

If he was conscious, and he initiated sex with a sleeping partner, and she did not tell him, prior to falling asleep that it was okay: that's rape. Some partners have that agreement, that if their asleep, but they start getting frisky, go for it. That's consent.

Not consenting means sex without permission. That's rape.

And if she woke up, discovered he was having sex with her, and told him enough, and he continued doing it? Or didn't stop? I mean, she didn't sound like she enjoyed this discovery. Sex is a two-way street, and if one partner is not on board with an action that's taking place, that's a big problem.

Also, this:

women are attracted to men who are attractive to women


That's an odd thing to bring up in context of cheating, but okay: what is that? How are women attracted to men who are attractive to women? Poll the female contributors here, I'll think you'll find a large breadth of what it is they find attractive. Regardless, it's an odd thing to bring up in response to that statement.

I can tell you why it seems you're so easily forgiven, ran1: it's most likely the kind of person you seek out and find attractive is most likely the kind of person with a personality to accept or forgive cheating. That, or they don't take the relationships seriously enough to consider unfaithfulness as 'cheating.' Do that when married to someone, you might find a different outcome.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby MuscleRobo » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:59 am

View Original Postran1 wrote:As a serial cheater, I can tell you that people's capacity to forgive always seems to match my inability to stay faithful. I think it does take a certain degree of strength in the sense that you've got to be a strong person to take cheating on the chin (if that's really a thing that matters to you, I find that it varies from person to person) but also -- I'd caution that strength and self-harm are often mistaken for one another. It's usually best for you and for them to divest from that relationship.


It's usually a weak person that takes cheating. People with low self-esteem or serious number problems, cheater is a 9 the cheated on is a 6, means "I'll do what it takes to make sure they don't leave." If they knew they could just go out and grab someone else they wouldn't tolerate such a horribly scummy thing. Plus the cheater is nuking the relationship in a cowardly way anyways.

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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby ran1 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:42 am

View Original PostGob Hobblin wrote:I can tell you why it seems you're so easily forgiven, ran1: it's most likely the kind of person you seek out and find attractive is most likely the kind of person with a personality to accept or forgive cheating. That, or they don't take the relationships seriously enough to consider unfaithfulness as 'cheating.' Do that when married to someone, you might find a different outcome.


I don't think it's that easy to quantify. I get the impression that a fair deal of women (and I suppose I should clarify that my experience in matters of the heart can be essentially compressed into the following terms: urban, urbane, and mostly Mediterranean in origin) are willing to simply tolerate infidelity because it's a measure of how desirable their partner is. Tines is right in that women usually judge men in the company of their peers, and there's a great deal of confirmation and platitudes that are passed around regarding desirability. I've been on both ends of this -- growing up with a house full of women and also being just charismatic enough to get a compressed version of the conversation topics in a particular friend group that I slept my way through.

MuscleRobo wrote:It's usually a weak person that takes cheating. People with low self-esteem or serious number problems, cheater is a 9 the cheated on is a 6, means "I'll do what it takes to make sure they don't leave." If they knew they could just go out and grab someone else they wouldn't tolerate such a horribly scummy thing. Plus the cheater is nuking the relationship in a cowardly way anyways.


I can assure you I'm too much of an narcissist to be in a relationship with someone who I don't deem to be my intellectual and physical equal. It got to the point where my self-love of love drove me to Greece itself to bed to collegiate Apollos and Artemises. I'm sure those methods of exploitation exist elsewhere, but some of us liken ourselves to true Byronic heroes.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:25 pm

No, man: they really aren't.

It is likely that the personality type you find attractive, and compels you to ask a particular girl out (and begin dating) is also the one that carries with it a tendency to be a LOT more forgiving for cheating.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby ran1 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:59 pm

View Original PostGob Hobblin wrote:It is likely that the personality type you find attractive, and compels you to ask a particular girl out (and begin dating) is also the one that carries with it a tendency to be a LOT more forgiving for cheating.


Personality sits very low on my list of desired features, let me assure you. Intelligence is a trait I look for in addition to looks, passion is another, whether it be for art, knowledge, etc. Personality is just someone's level of mutability in a given social setting.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:18 pm

Personality sits very low on my list of desired features,


Personality is just someone's level of mutability in a given social setting.


:freud:
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
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We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
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Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

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Postby Princess Asuka » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:20 pm

Another question: So, last year I reconnected with a guy I met online who cut all contact with me after he got deployed. I didn't find out that he deployed until a friend of mine messaged him on facebook for me. Anyhow, last March after I got grounded for 3 months he abandoned me and blocked me on facebook again. My friend messaged him and he said to her that he thought I abandoned him. After that I never heard anything from him again. Part of me kinda misses him and wants to hear from him again. But, I really don't wanna go back to the site where I met or create a fake facebook just to talk to him. If it were up to me I'd totally be ok with giving someone my login info for the site I met him at called MaiOtaku and me telling that person what to say to him. All in all, it's a dumb idea and I'll probably end up heartbroken.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:50 am

If you're in a situation where you've actually considered creating a fake Facebook account to re-acquaint with someone, it's probably best that that relationship is done.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby Cybermat47 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:16 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:What if both participants are asleep at the time? That happened to me the first couple of times I shared a (narrow single)bed with a girl -- spooning + male physiology will do that sort of thing.


There’s a difference between nocturnal emissions and rape, mate.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:36 am

View Original PostCybermat47 wrote:There’s a difference between nocturnal emissions and rape, mate.
Do I have to draw a diagram here? It seems like it, with the number of people who have missed the point.

Or should I just quote the Stranglers here and say "Use your 20th century imagination, if you've got any"?
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Postby jcmoorehead » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:22 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Do I have to draw a diagram here? It seems like it, with the number of people who have missed the point.


And what exactly is your point? The person was talking about the fact that someone boyfriend tried to have sex with someone whilst they were were, the boyfriend was not asleep, the girl was. That is rape, no matter which way you slice it. One person is an active participant who wants it, the other is unaware and hasn't gave consent to say they do.

If both participants are asleep and something happens then that isn't unheard of but is an entirely different affair.

If a guy spoons someone and gets an erection, then that is just unfortunate for the guy. If the girl wakes up and they decide to go at it then fair enough, but if the girl doesn't want it then it's rape.

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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby ran1 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:37 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Do I have to draw a diagram here? It seems like it, with the number of people who have missed the point.

Or should I just quote the Stranglers here and say "Use your 20th century imagination, if you've got any"?


Tines, you're asking people whose logic has been thoroughly corrupted by the Anglo-American self-hating brand of mass media third-wave feminism to make serious calls about how furtive and illogical human sexuality can be. On an anime forum no less.

Various posters discussing consent


Absolute consent is an ideal created by those who live lives without passion. Is it a good general rule to strive for? Of course. But consent itself is mutable. I've been in sexual situations where consent is given at first, taken away later -- returned, etc. It's a dialogue between the two (or more) partners that has to be continuous, empathetic, and sensual. The current social orthodoxy treats every step of the sexual encounter in absolute terms -- and by doing that it strips away the emotion behind it all. Once you've been around the block enough times, with enough people, in a wide array of cultural settings -- you find that it's anything but. And for those who want a litigious scenario of consent at each stage -- you'll never experience the fires of real eros.

And we're just talking about things in the realm of sobriety.

Anyone looking for real romance basically has to leave the West at this point. We've been too thoroughly broken-in by the social scientists to ever truly stoke the flames of love.
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Postby Gob Hobblin » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:47 pm

^

Easy there, Lothario: I think it's safe to say that someone who's self-described as a 'serial cheater' might have a rather wonky view on consent.

Also:

Tines, you're asking people whose logic has been thoroughly corrupted by the Anglo-American self-hating brand of mass media third-wave feminism to make serious calls about how furtive and illogical human sexuality can be. On an anime forum no less.


Seeing as we've just...JUST...come through a massive series of scandals involving people generally taking advantage of the idea that 'consent is assumed,' and having their careers torpedoed over it, I'm going to say that this is a pretty ignorant thing to say.

So, since it's amazing that we have explain something so fundamentally basic as consent, please watch this video about...tea.

It should clarify some of that 'self-hating' crap.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
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We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
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Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

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Postby xanderkh » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:55 pm

And honestly, how does costent devalue the intamacy of a relationship? If anything, consent, where BOTH parties are willing, enhances the eros of the act of making love, and thus stirs the fires of passion.

Like Gob said Ran1, your idea of "consent" leaves me dubious about your future relationships. I'm seeing a lot of angry women and slashed tires.....
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