C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:45 am

Actually, no: as egomania is based upon the delusion of greatness, a hard blow to an egomaniac's ability to maintain the delusion (for themselves and others) often results in what we see with Asuka when she can no longer maintain the illusion for herself and the rest of the cast: severe depression and self-loathing.

She is basically a textbook example of an egomaniac, or mild narcissism.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby xanderkh » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:49 pm

^

Wouldn't it be more like a "Paranoid" egomaniac that's more like Asuka?

Because from what I've seen, she's an egomaniac because she has a deep-rooted fear that if she's not the best at EVERYTHING, even by a little, she'll be tossed aside and forgotten like garbage by those around her, which is actually a realistic fear. One probably orchestrated by Seele no doubt to keep her useful as a sacrifice. :P
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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:01 pm

I don't know if that's paranoid. I think that's a basic feature of being an egomaniac. At a certain level, they have to know it's a delusion, and they are consistently terrified that something will dispel it.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
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Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:59 pm

View Original PostGob Hobblin wrote:Actually, no: as egomania is based upon the delusion of greatness, a hard blow to an egomaniac's ability to maintain the delusion (for themselves and others) often results in what we see with Asuka when she can no longer maintain the illusion for herself and the rest of the cast: severe depression and self-loathing.

Ah, thanks for the info.
or mild narcissism.

Would you mind defining narcissm for me? I was under the impression narcissm means being self-centered which doesn't really fit Asuka who wholly defines herself via the expectations and wishes ofothers.
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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:16 pm

Simply put, narcissism is greatly inflating one's self worth to levels of excessive importance. It is a much more severe form of self-delusion than egomania, but fairly similar. Here are symptoms of a 'power-hungry' narcissist, taken from Wikipedia:

An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges
Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships
A lack of psychological awareness (see insight in psychology and psychiatry, egosyntonic)
Difficulty with empathy
Problems distinguishing the self from others (see personal boundaries)
Hypersensitivity to any insults or imagined insults (see criticism and narcissists, narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury)
Vulnerability to shame rather than guilt
Haughty body language
Flattery towards people who admire and affirm them (narcissistic supply)
Detesting those who do not admire them (narcissistic abuse)
Using other people without considering the cost of doing so
Pretending to be more important than they actually are
Bragging (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating their achievements
Claiming to be an "expert" at many things
Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people
Denial of remorse and gratitude

A good number of those traits easily apply to Asuka, but it's never been confirmed if she is an actual narcissist. She displays the traits, and is certainly an egomaniac, but there's a lot of similarity between the two.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
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We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:08 pm

So narcissm and egonamia apply to people's facades rather than the actuality their facades conceal?
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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:06 am

Maybe?

I think it's more that narcissism and egomania are conditions that affect how a person views themselves, and presents themselves. It's technically about a person creating a facade, but because the condition creates such a warped view of the person's own ability to accurately assess their abilities, place, and importance in the world, it's...maybe more foundational than that. So, probably.

I mean, you can be an egomaniac and have the skills to justify your egomania, but it is still an aberrant mental and emotional state: there's a world of difference between being a brilliant violinist, for instance, and thinking that you're a great violinist versus The Chosen One Bow Down Slack Jawed Mortals.

I'd say it's less about facade, and more about how a person THINKS they need to justify themselves and to interact with others. Again, an egomaniac or narcissist is usually assuming things about themselves that are wildly out of place with reality, but there are historical egomaniacs and narcissists both that were very talented in their specific fields. Their egomania and narcissism, however, creates an adverse affect on their ability to socialize, rather than enhance it.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
-Sorrow

Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:40 am

View Original PostGob Hobblin wrote:Maybe?

I think it's more that narcissism and egomania are conditions that affect how a person views themselves, and presents themselves..

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that for Shinji and Asuka, their low view of themselves affects how they project themselves to others?
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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:33 am

Almost certainly, just manifesting in different ways. I mean (in Asuka's case), egomaniacs and narcissists probably have fairly low views of themselves, and inflate their image to convince themselves, as much as others, how important they are.

Shinji kind of wears it on his sleeve: he assumes he's crap, so he walks around feeling rotten and useless, while trying to convince others he's useless.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
-Sorrow

Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

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Why is Asuka such a jerk?

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Postby VUX » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:50 pm

I just don't get it, why is she such a b word to everybody when they're just trying to help, and why does she hate yet like Shinji at the same time?
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Re: Why is Asuka such a jerk?

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Postby Reichu » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:23 pm

Addressed at length here and many, many other places. Hours of entertainment at your disposal via the search tool. Topic has been rehashed so much and so recently I don't think we need another thread right now.

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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby C.T.1290 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:38 pm

Ok, new question.

How do you think Asuka would progress in, let's say, her next four years?

I think it's pretty apparent that a lot of people were a little more different from when they were fourteen. How do you think this will all apply to Asuka? Do you think she would finally let go of her troubles or whatever else may be haunting her? Or is the damage too great for her to overcome, and she'd be stuck where she is?

And also, just how much does she care for Shinji? And do you think she'd be able to fix whatever problems may be between them, or be willing to do so?
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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby pwhodges » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:10 am

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:Do you think she would finally let go of her troubles or whatever else may be haunting her? Or is the damage too great for her to overcome, and she'd be stuck where she is?

Neither. This is not an either/or proposition. Hopefully she would be able to start to come to terms with her past, but some things will probably never quite leave her - like happens, y'know, with real people in real life. Where she is able to get to between the extremes is not fixed either, it would depend on how the world around her treats her and what relationships develop in her life.

And also, just how much does she care for Shinji? And do you think she'd be able to fix whatever problems may be between them, or be willing to do so?

The reason we keep going round this again and again is the same - these things are not straight yes/no matters, and almost any outcome is conceivable depending on circumstances.

If you insist on answers, that is where the best fanfiction can help you - precisely by following up how things go in a range of possible futures and showing a range of resulting outcomes.
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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:55 am

Yeah, when you're talking about 'ifs, ands, or buts,' you could run in circles all day. We can't know, because the anime ended before that point: thus, the future is permanently unreachable and unwritten. It's what you define.

If you think she could never recover, then she doesn't. If you think she does, then she does. There are conditions that can lead to one outcome over the other, but like everything else, that's assumption.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
-Sorrow

Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby C.T.1290 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:43 pm

^So is that why Anno left the ending so open and ambiguous? To actually and deliberately let his audience come up with what would happen to them next, instead of giving these two some closure and an ending which may/may not have left the fans satisfied?
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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby pwhodges » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:33 am

Yes. It is common for stories to end with a new view of the future. After all, what is closure anyway? - the only complete closure is death, the true end of all our stories.
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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby C.T.1290 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:08 pm

Am I correct in assuming that Asuka isn't really this bratty person, as she always come off as, but rather this emotionally and mentally damaged girl who wants nothing more than to reach out to others and do some good for them? The same thing Shinji is attempting as he was shown?

Edit: Also, I'd like to know some of your guy's honest opinion about me. I can take it. Do I always come off as a bit an asshole for having such a low opinion on Asuka? Or have a bad reputation of it?
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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby CommanderFish » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:18 am

C.T.1290 wrote:Also, I'd like to know some of your guy's honest opinion about me. I can take it. Do I always come off as a bit an asshole for having such a low opinion on Asuka? Or have a bad reputation of it?

If you're wondering if you have a reputation of any sort just look at the thread title.
Personally, I enjoy your presence here. It makes things interesting.
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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:08 am

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:. I can take it.

But can you really?
:gasp:
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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby C.T.1290 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:49 am

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:But can you really?
:gasp:

I think I can.
"Who dares to summon the master of masters, the deliverer of darkness, the Shogun of sorrow, Aku!?"-Aku

"KONO DIO DA!"-Dio


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