Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby Ray » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:33 pm

Amazons Adaptation Of Nihilistic Apocalyptic Superhero Comic "The Boys" Casts more members of the Seven.

https://www.cbr.com/amazon-the-boys-seven-cast/

I have a feeling that this is going to be like the film of Watchmen. In that I feel it's coming too Early. Y'see the thing with The Boys is that it's a deconstruction of Superheroes, but also a very specific brand of Superheroes. Namely DC. You're supposed to look at the character of Homelander and be shocked at how unlike Superman he is. It's supposed to contrast with how that type of character usually acts in comics.

But the thing is, Superman isn't really established as well as he was in years past as an Icon of hope and peace. and the character in the movies makes fans angry with how unlike Supeman is. So the shock of the contrast with Portrayals of that kind of character won't really resonate with the audience as well.

It'd be the film equivalent of making a Dark Gritty Deconstructionist Superhero comic in the 1940's where they hadn't been properly established as cultural icons yet.
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Postby Chuckman » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:44 pm

Ellis is a smarter Mark Millar. I'll be skipping.
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Postby El Squibbonator » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:06 pm

And Millar, in turn, is the American Mohiro Kitoh. I'll be watching.
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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby Chuckman » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:11 pm

I meant Ennis, not Ellis.I always get them mixed up.

Millar writes exploitative garbage to cash in on movie rights deals now. He used to be good.

Seriously, is there any point to this?  SPOILER: Show
Kick-Ass eventually joins 'Justice Forever', a superhero team of which his friends Marty and later Todd are members. Led by the repentant born-again Christian "Colonel Stars", the group launch a campaign against the local crime families of the city. Behind the scenes, the Red Mist (now using the code name "The Motherfucker") has begun recruiting his own group of villains using social media and his father's wealth. Together, the group (known as "The Toxic Mega-Cunts") brutally murder Colonel Stars by cutting off his head, inserting his dog's head on his body, and then launching a full-on assault upon the suburban neighborhood where Katie Deauxma (Kick-Ass's unrequited crush) lives. Nearly a hundred innocent children, police officers, and Katie's father are sadistically killed by The Motherfucker and his henchmen, who then take turns gang raping Katie. Source
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Postby Ray » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:59 pm

Jupiters Circle, Chrononauts and Starlight were awesome. Neither of them were 'edgy for edgys' sake. In fact in recent years he seems to regret the darker aspects of his earlier works such as Civil War and the Impact they had on comics and the films they inspired.

Have you ever read 'What So Funny About The American Way"? In that one he basically refutes and sticks the middle finger up to stories like The Boys. That story is basically him telling Superhero Authors. "Stop trying to make these characters 'realistic', you're ruining it for everyone. (I don't entirely agree with that assessment, but still I can respect him for it.)

It's basically an ideological conflict between Superman and characters like "The Boys" and his own "The Authority" that deconstruct his archetype and point out how a Superman couldn't possibly exist in the world. It's not exactly subtle about it either.

Basically a group of 'Superheroes' calling themselves "The Elite" (reference to Millars own "The Authority") inspired by Superman start being more pragmatic and lethal with superpowered criminals, citing things like reducing Collateral damage and civilian casualities as reason for it, though in reality they're more interested in flaunting their authority and fame than helping people. Superman disagrees with it, and stops them from killing a mentally unwell Supervillain who needs help. So in return the Elite come up with a plan to make Superman side with them, manipulating him into (supposedly) crossing a moral event horizon. All done trying to prove his pacifism and softhearted ways wrong, trying to prove that killing Supervillains and using your powers is the ONLY way to keep people from dying. They Succeed, and in return Superman loses it and kills all but one of them.

Then As he's about to kill the last one (Manchester Black) begging for his life realizing he's turned Superman into Injustice Superman. He says 'Psych" and reveals that he knew about their plan through his Superhearing and let them lead him on and 'think he had gone too far. When in reality it was all a plan, (with the help of Star Labs and the US Government) to teach them a lesson. He didn't really kill the others. It ends with him saying "I'm not like you, and will never be like you. Someone with powers like ours should never act like you."

Hell with some writing you could make this work in the DCEU w/o a Flashpoint reboot. Replace the Elite with a character like Magog, Power Girl (the clone version not the Interdimensional one), or even Peacemaker. Alter some of the dialogue about him 'learning restraint' or whatnot. That way, you address the issues people had with prior movies, have a tonally serious Superman movie, set up the new status quo, and let the audience know 'hey we're changing Superman into the one you want to see' without being intellectually dishonest about it like Justice League was.

Millar isn't what I would call "Edgy" what he does is take a concept and takes it to it's logical conclusion. Which usually involves eventually turning aSuperhero world into a Dystopia or hellscape. Like I said. Old Man Logan is basically a world with Superheroes taken to it's inevitable end-point. Dinosaurs in the midwest eating people, Supervillains and/or Mentally damaged former Demigods ruling a chaotic world, basically "Siver Age Aesthetic as Nightmare Fuel".

EDIT:
In Regards to "Kick-Ass" Much like Watchmen. It's meant to be a dressing down of the Superhero Genre. A dark parody, that basically as I said above. Takes the Idea of Superheroes and masked Vigilantes, and puts them in a world like our own and shows what Supervillains and Superheroes would be like IRL. Namely they wouldn't be heroes, they'd be little better than Mexican Street Gangs fighting each other for territory with Innocent Civilians trapped in the middle and dying.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Postby Chuckman » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:01 pm

http://entertainmentscreen.info/steven- ... n-steel-2/

Stephen S DeKnight is interested in MoS2.

As a huge fan of some of his previous work (Spartacus) Is love to see this.
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Postby Ray » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:56 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:http://entertainmentscreen.info/steven-s-deknight-shows-interest-directing-man-steel-2/

Stephen S DeKnight is interested in MoS2.

As a huge fan of some of his previous work (Spartacus) Is love to see this.



People complain about MOS and BVS being too dark. Look into Matt Vaughn and now this guy. Who are both notorious for violence, dark tones and themes, and incredibly uncomfortable undertones. People shat all over Snyder for making Superman dark and violent. and they want the guy behind the gruesome, violent, sexually charged, DAREDEVIL Netflix series to direct? Are WB Suicidal?
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Postby El Squibbonator » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:52 am

It's not confirmed yet. A director can "show interest" in a movie" and still nothing can come of it.
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Postby Chuckman » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:52 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:People complain about MOS and BVS being too dark. Look into Matt Vaughn and now this guy. Who are both notorious for violence, dark tones and themes, and incredibly uncomfortable undertones. People shat all over Snyder for making Superman dark and violent. and they want the guy behind the gruesome, violent, sexually charged, DAREDEVIL Netflix series to direct? Are WB Suicidal?


From what I know of DeKnight I’d be curious to see what he does with it. The first season and prequel of Spartacus are some of the finest television ever made. He knows how to take something that could be merely campy and bring it beyond itself.

Also, making Daredevil violent and all doesn’t mean that’s how he’d approach another character.
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Postby movieartman » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:38 am

View Original PostRay wrote:People complain about MOS and BVS being too dark. Look into Matt Vaughn and now this guy. Who are both notorious for violence, dark tones and themes, and incredibly uncomfortable undertones. People shat all over Snyder for making Superman dark and violent. and they want the guy behind the gruesome, violent, sexually charged, DAREDEVIL Netflix series to direct? Are WB Suicidal?

Vaughn has said he would do a straight up modern version of the Reeves films, he wouldn't be making it dark or probably even serious sadly.
He did X-Men - First Class & it wasn't all that dark ether except various Magneto moments, if Vaughn can hit the tonal balance that film had and not go full silly he would have my full support. I just feel it is too big a risk, I don't want him giving it a Kingsman-ish sarcastic tone with faint hints of dark humor, also they really need to take the villain seriously, last thing we need after Jesse Lex is a KIngsman style camp villain.

My top choice for Mos2 remains Brad Bird with Gareth Edwards close behind, Bird did The Iron Giant & The Incredibles and he proved he could do great live action blockbusters with Mission Impossible 4 which IMO was the best of the franchise.

View Original PostRay wrote:Basically a group of 'Superheroes' calling themselves "The Elite" (reference to Millars own "The Authority") inspired by Superman start being more pragmatic and lethal with superpowered criminals, citing things like reducing Collateral damage and civilian casualities as reason for it, though in reality they're more interested in flaunting their authority and fame than helping people.

That may have been the case in the animated version (haven't seen) but I am looking at the comic issue right now and there is never any point were they bask in fame of any kind, they make 1 public announcement clarifying their intentions but they never even show themselves except to Superman.
The comic versions to me seem to genuinely want to protect the world from the dark rampant in it, in a later story (ending battle) it's implied Manchester was molested.

Problems with stories like that who try and refute the idea of pragmatic/realistic superheroes who kill when needed, they always try and claim that such a hero will always end up becoming a villain (Manchester disdainfully contemplated the fact that he has become a super villain in Ending Battle) or at the least has totally un-noble motives deep down. I of course deeply disagree with such a notion.

Steve Rogers, Thor, Wonder Woman prove that wrong and to a lesser extent so does Wolverine.
Hell cops in real life and in comics also prove that wrong, Jim Gordon has killed and most people including Batman still consider him a hero.

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Postby Ray » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:07 am

People hold Superman to a different Standard than other heroes. He's a paradox. Too simple and straightforward, yet at the same time too complex and Powerful for filmmakers to make work in a film. He has to be too many things to too many people, so no matter what you do you're just setting yourself up for failure.

I've said it before. But it bears repeating. I think it speaks to Superman's relevance in today's world ( or rather lack thereof) when the most popular Critically well received non comic book thing involving him are the Injustice video games where he's the unambiguous baby roasting bad guy. People are just too cynical in a post 9/11 world to give Superman a chance.

Man of Steel just didn't have Superman learn from his mistakes in a movie that seems to try to build its morality conflicts all around making those mistakes. Was it a mistake to save all of the kids on the bus? Maybe.


Because It's not a totally legitimate fear that the government may come and take your son away to be dissected/used as a superweapon when your son actually IS an alien.

Was it a mistake to wreck the dude's truck after getting beer spilled on him? Perhaps.

It was to humble the dude for harassing the waitress. To teach him a lesson.

Was it a mistake to save everyone on the oil rig, thereby revealing his true powers to the world around him? Who knows?

Clark didn't see it as a mistake. and do you think those men who would have cared who saved them? You think they'd be any less grateful?

Was it a mistake to accidentally wreck half of Metropolis and kill Zod? Roll credits.

He didn't mean for the destruction to happen. Killing Zod? No. Not at all. But I suppose you'd rather he have lobotomized Zod like he did Doomsday in the DCAU? I'm sure THAT would have gone over much better.

I'm done arguing with you about this Freaky. We're never going to come to an accord over this. Not that it matters anyway thanks to fucking flashpoint coming over the horizon. You'll get your goofy Silver Age Superman, and i'll be left in the dust.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Postby silvermoonlight » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:07 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:I meant Ennis, not Ellis.I always get them mixed up.

Millar writes exploitative garbage to cash in on movie rights deals now. He used to be good.

Seriously, is there any point to this?  SPOILER: Show
Kick-Ass eventually joins 'Justice Forever', a superhero team of which his friends Marty and later Todd are members. Led by the repentant born-again Christian "Colonel Stars", the group launch a campaign against the local crime families of the city. Behind the scenes, the Red Mist (now using the code name "The Motherfucker") has begun recruiting his own group of villains using social media and his father's wealth. Together, the group (known as "The Toxic Mega-Cunts") brutally murder Colonel Stars by cutting off his head, inserting his dog's head on his body, and then launching a full-on assault upon the suburban neighborhood where Katie Deauxma (Kick-Ass's unrequited crush) lives. Nearly a hundred innocent children, police officers, and Katie's father are sadistically killed by The Motherfucker and his henchmen, who then take turns gang raping Katie. Source


The worst part about the kick ass 2 movie was that it just pushed that attempted rape scene on to a different female character then made it in to one of the most tasteless rape jokes ever put to screen when they should have just cut to beating her because the impact is the same and the director wanted everyone to still pat him on the back like look I'm so pro feminist I took out a rape scene despite that a rape joke of the evil guy not getting it up is just as uncomfortable to the female audience because the serious threat level is still there and you think for a moment he might ask one of his team to do it instead.
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Postby Ray » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:43 pm

Well just for the record Vaughn didn't direct that one. he only produced and even he felt that scene in the comic book went a bit too far, and keep in mind this is the same guy who had Kingsman end with an anal sex joke.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Postby Ray » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:20 pm

I found this rather interesting video talking about a problem that a lot of superhero movies seem to have. "The big gray villain problem"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R23YRN6r9aU

Are the reason I think most of the villains in these sorts of movies tend to be generic and sane looking and have a lot of the color that they had in their original comic book incarnations downgraded or bleached out. Is to allow the audience to read the fight scenes better.

If you had to colorful characters fighting each other the movie runs the risk of not being able to tell which character is we're in a fight scene. Jackie Chan said he liked Clarity in his fight scenes which is why when he wears white the bad guy wears color, and when he's wearing normal clothes the bad guy is wearing black.

Problem is with superheroes you kind of have to make them colorful, and if you made the villains with a primary color palette it would make the scene harder to read.

Are there ways around this?
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Postby Chuckman » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:20 pm

https://mobile.twitter.com/ErikDavis/st ... 3786492928

Black Panther is outselling every other superhero movie in presales.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:12 am

Spider-Man: Homecoming was a dull nothing of a movie but the best part of the film is finally online - the animated end credits!

https://vimeo.com/242765729

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Postby Ray » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:46 pm

Official Synopsis for Shazam Released.

http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/02/05/shaz ... -released/

Even if it's good. the DC brand is so damaged by bad word of mouth and controversy that I fully expect it to underperform even if it is a good movie.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
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Postby El Squibbonator » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:02 pm

That might be true, but there are other factors in play here, such as the cost of those movies. To put things in a little perspective, Justice League cost $300 million (and even more once you add marketing costs), so it was pretty much doomed to not break even from the very start. It was one of the most expensive movies ever, not accounting for inflation. It's estimated that, counting marketing costs, it would have needed $750 million just to break even. Compare that to Suicide Squad. That movie earned $746 million, which still wouldn't have profitable for Justice League. But since Suicide Squad had a budget that was significantly smaller than that of Justice League, it was able to make a profit. And that was despite it coming immediately after the extremely disliked Batman vs. Superman and the divisive Man of Steel. The upcoming Aquaman movie, as a solo superhero film, has a stated budget of $160 million, and Shazam should logically be similar. If that's the case, they should be profitable even if they only end up doing Justice League numbers at the box office. A $650 million gross should be fine for Aquaman.
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Postby Ray » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:16 am

On top of that. Everything I see about Shazam fills me with either indifference or annoyance.

All the emphasis is being put on how FUNNY! and HOPEFUL! it's going to be because DC doesn't understand nuance at freaking all.

There was this DC animated movie that did a darker take on Shazam that a lot of people liked. Where they address the issue of a kid in an adults body. And how a kid deals with Trauma as opposed to an Adult. Billy in that story is still a good person despite dealing with a messed up world. But I know Shazam is going to be thematically empty to avoid falling into the same pitholes that prior DC movies did.

DC: SEE GUYS! WE CAN BE FUNNY TOO! LOVE US AGAIN! PLEASE! LOVE US AGAIN!

Audience: "why should we go see you trying be funny when Marvel IS funny? Why Should we settle for the diet brand when the real deal is in the same exact theater?" (Walks past Shazam to see Marvels Stiltman)

I'd bet money if I could. Opening weekend. Good or bad movie. That's EXACTLY how it's going to go. DC is in the Kobayash Maru.

WB should realize there's no shame in admitting defeat. Just finish Wonder Womans Trilogy. Then Shelve the entire DC Universe thing for a decade to let the hate die down and try again once the Superhero Genre comes back around to being popular again in ten years. All this is going to do is make people angry with you no matter what you do. You imitate Marvel you'll be seen as inferior imitator. You stick with the tone you refuse to commit too you'll drive audiences.

Trends only last twenty years. Iron Man and Batman Begins came out over Ten years ago. You're over the hill, and even if you can get a few good movies you'll NEVER be able to match Marvel because Superhero movies will stop making money by them. Just stop dragging these characters through the mud. You had your chance to make a DC universe that could compete. You blew it. and with the Rise of Streaming replacing theatrical releases you'll NEVER get that chance ever again. GIVE UP.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Postby El Squibbonator » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:21 pm

It's not just DC that has this problem. Having watched many, though not all, of the Marvel Cinematic Universe movies, they tend to veer towards being either very serious (though never quite to the extent of DC) or very comical. This is especially evident in recent years; their earlier movies, like the first Iron Man and the first Captain America, were a lot more balanced.
It all goes back to the issue with deconstructions that I pointed out earlier. Once a genre is "broken", so to speak, it isn't viable in its original form anymore. It has to be either super-funny or super-dark, no gray areas.
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Do you like Eva? Do you like Pokemon? Then check out Neon Genesis Evangelemon-- You Can (Not) Catch 'Em All thread/16052/Neon-Genesis-Evangelemon/


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