Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:51 pm

Shinji is disliked by, quite possibly, a majority of fans. And I think the same could be said about the other characters, such as Gendo, Asuka, etc.

Meanwhile, he and the others get their fair amount of defense; sometimes reasonable, and other times illogical.

And let's not forget that Shinji's actions (especially in EoE) has caused quite a lot of problems with people, and sparked the fan's initial dislike towards him even more. And they also seem to be a deep seeded root of Asuka's problem with him. But despite all this, I seem to have empathized with him( but I'm still having a hard time with Asuka on this).

So, is he deserving of this, as much as Gendo and Asuka?
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby pwhodges » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:59 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:Shinji is disliked by, quite possibly, a majority of fans.

More in the Anglosphere than in Japan, I believe. This already suggests that our reactions to him are coloured by our varied social prejudices.
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby Hark » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:25 pm

Hmmm good question.
Well in my eyes i say no he does not deserve all of the hate he gets.
his mistakes along with the other characters in the show stem from a major point, that point being they are all human,
and as a part of being human we all make mistakes no matter what.
No one is an exception.

yes i think he can be a coward ,selfish ,whiny ,etc but i sympathize with him , and im sure many of us on the forums know what its like to be depressed and want to run away or feel like were being forced to do something, much like Shinji does.

I think that since we are all outsiders looking in on there universe it becomes a lot easier for us to dish-out hate or defend someones actions in the show, because for the most part we see the whole picture, and not through there eyes alone.

I do not think Shinji is a "horrible" person i do on the contrary think he is a good person as a whole , despite of his mistakes.
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Postby Shinji Ikari Expy » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:58 am

In my experience, Shinji's harshest critics aren't fans, but people who watched the show once and disliked it, or were lukewarm about it. If you don't like Shinji, it's going to be hard to like Evangelion because it's all about him.

I think most fans relate to him but also find him frustrating. I often find it painful to watch him because his weaknesses remind me of my own — avoidance of others, fear of intimacy, hunger for peer approval. I suspect that a lot of people are experiencing the same thing: Shinji makes them uncomfortable because they see their worst qualities in him, so they reject him.

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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby Hark » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:40 am

View Original PostShinji Ikari Expy wrote:
I think most fans relate to him but also find him frustrating. I often find it painful to watch him because his weaknesses remind me of my own — avoidance of others, fear of intimacy, hunger for peer approval. I suspect that a lot of people are experiencing the same thing: Shinji makes them uncomfortable because they see their worst qualities in him, so they reject him.


I couldn't of said it better myself.
I too believe that this is another big part of why he is disliked so much , unfortunately.
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby Cybermat47 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:38 am

There’s a lot wrong with Shinji. Like his Father, he’s very selfish, only ever concerned with his own issues. When Asuka is lying comatose/sedated in hospital, he doesn’t visit her out of concern for her wellbeing, but instead to ask her for help. Later on, when he strangles her, the trigger isn’t her assaulting him, but her refusal to help him. He pilots the Eva to get praise from others. The way he says “sorry”, even when something isn’t his fault, is also kimd of selfish. He’s just trying as hard as possible to get someone to say “it’s okay, Shinji”, or some other positive comment.

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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby viperzero » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:21 pm

I think people here gloss over some fairly horrible things he does. Jerk off scene the most obvious. He’s also really dependent on others. Your free to feel however you want about him but it’s not as if people only don’t like him just “cus he’s a wus!” And then this weird projection thing, people don’t like Shinji because he represents the part of themselves they hate! (Reading to much into the show?) when I think a more likely explanation is people simply don’t relate or don’t like his qualities. Again nothing wrong with liking the guy and I’ve always said you can like a character without liking them as a person but if Shinji was a real guy I wouldn’t be signing up to be friends.

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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby xanderkh » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:13 pm

Shinji has problems, yes. He can be selfish, perverted, obstinate, cowardly, and obviously a huge BRAT....but I can't really hold those behaviors against him for everything he's grown up with.

Shinji is probably a character that has a constant feeling of depression behind him, where it's always apparent in his mind that he ultimately believes he's not worthy of being happy or loved. Being abandoned at 4 with practically no explanation, having to just "exist" for 10 years with no one to challenge the belief that he's unwanted, only to be thrown into a war for the explanation that "he's useful".

When you factor all this in, of course Shinji is going to behave like he did in the series. When your parents pretty much abandon you at the drop of a hat with no explanation whatsoever, of course Shinji is going to apologize for everything, because he's AFRAID if getting the same treatment from everyone else unless he does what they want. With this feeling of fundamentally believing that you're destined to be unloved and having been cast aside with no reason, of course he's going to try to cling to any happy feeling he gets close to. No one has been considerate or helpful towards his feelings, so how would he know how to treat others when he's been always (up until Tokyo-3) been given the short end of the stick by others? Plus, it doesn't help the fact that his peers (especially Asuka, Misato, and Rei) are just as messed up as he is.

When you look at him through all this, it's hard to hate the kid. Yes, I can scold him for his behavior and choices, but I couldn't bring myself to hate him. He already hates himself enough as it is. What good would there be in adding more hate?
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby Joseki » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:23 pm

My personal opinion is that the vast majority of the Eva viewers don't actually understand it, in the anime fandom Eva is considered great in spite of its ending for example, not (also) because of the ending.

I can't imagine how it's possible to dislike Shinji and like Eva at the same time, for me Eva is Shinji, the rest of the cast is there just to add layers to his character. But that's just my opinion.
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby viperzero » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:48 pm

View Original PostJoseki wrote:My personal opinion is that the vast majority of the Eva viewers don't actually understand it, in the anime fandom Eva is considered great in spite of its ending for example, not (also) because of the ending.

I can't imagine how it's possible to dislike Shinji and like Eva at the same time, for me Eva is Shinji, the rest of the cast is there just to add layers to his character. But that's just my opinion.

Hey I like taxi driver and think Travis is a great character but I don’t plan on hanging out anytime soon!

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Postby Shinji Ikari Expy » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:07 pm

View Original Postviperzero wrote:And then this weird projection thing, people don’t like Shinji because he represents the part of themselves they hate! (Reading to much into the show?) when I think a more likely explanation is people simply don’t relate or don’t like his qualities.


I was talking more about the kinds of viewers who dismiss him because he's a "wuss" or a "whiny bitch." People tend to harshly reject weakness when they see it because it reminds them of their own vulnerability. This was my reaction after watching the first few episodes, (I changed my mind after reflecting on it), and I wouldn't be surprised if many other viewers had the same initial reaction.

I don't think anyone here glosses over the hospital room scene from EOE. Most posters here would agree that was a despicable act, regardless of Shinji's emotional instability.

I get what you're saying, though. A viewer can like a character that they dislike as a person, and there are plenty of reasons to dislike Shinji.

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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby pwhodges » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:34 pm

View Original PostShinji Ikari Expy wrote:I don't think anyone here glosses over the hospital room scene from EOE. Most posters here would agree that was a despicable act, regardless of Shinji's emotional instability.

It can be hard to categorise a victimless 'crime', though. What's worst about Shinji in that scene is his attitude towards Asuka, not what he did as a result of it - which is not the same as doing it to express those feelings, though most people here seem to see it that way.
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Postby Thomas68 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:43 pm

His whiny persona could be countered by the fact that he kinda risked his life in some episodes and the fact he had some lonely past.

But that Hospital Scene...

He pretty much fucked up on that one...

I still can't understand what was going through Anno's head or if that was some sick fuck behind the plot writing that had created the scene and the staff decided it was good idea to use that shit to try and make a shock value scene or whatever.
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Postby xanderkh » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:54 pm

The context of that scene shows just how far Shinji has descended into his own personal hell. Every relationship that he's had so far in his life, he has either been abandoned, discarded, and just recently betrayed. He doesn't know what to think of himself anymore, doesn't know who to trust, and his life has been nothing but constant pain, loss, and sacrifice.

The horrifying nature of THAT scene is not not only show how desperate Shinji is for some personal comfort, but also the effort to enforce upon himself the final nail to finally have the will to kill himself. It's already been shown that Shinji is suicidal, from the earlier episodes of the series, to the beginning of the movie, where he tried to drown himself.

It was despicable, but it's also heart-breakingly tragic what he did just to try to end his pain and have the will to kill himself.
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Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby Kisses4Katie » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:05 am

Nope!

When I first watched the series at Shinji's age (14 when it came out in US!) my fave characters were Rei and Misato. Rei was mysterious and Misato was a cool adult and lived the life I thought I'd have as an adult (single, military,no kids..) so I looked up to her. I didn't care for Shinji because he was "boring". I also thought Asuka was just too mean!

But then I rewatched it before death/rebirth and EoE. Asuka became my favorite character (still is!) because after going through my own mental issues, I was able to connect with her on a real level. I needed Asuka at that time. Misato, while I think she is a blast, is too immature and Rei, while a fascinating and necessary character, quickly fell behind for me.
I also was able to view Shinji as a much more layered character. While I specifically have issue with him when he just "gives up" and Misato literally has to drag him, I still understood.

Shinji is a kind hearted person who really is concerned about everyone's feelings. He wants the world around him to be a happy place and he finds reason to fight for that world (even though It is cruel).
Shinji exhibited some of the biggest growth across the series and yet is able to almost stay exactly the same. If only, if only, he had had more people like Kaworu to get him to open up gradually, instead of Asuka's arguing, Misato's teasing, and Rei's ambivalence. Maybe the Porcupine's Dilemma wouldn't have been such a hindrance for Shinji.
He suffers real abandonment issues and has to face an unloving parent everyday. He has mental breakdowns throughout the show and is continually tortured in a sense both mentally and physically. And even when he decides to not pilot the Eva- he realizes nobody cares and continues to do so. Yes, it is for acceptance, but I know he fights to save others. The times he really wanted to run away but someone else was in danger- Shinji stepped up to save them time and again.
I love seeing best the Shinji who walks with a smile with Toji and Kensuke. I like when he's comfortable at home bickering with Asuka. I love when he plays his string instrument.
And I think Shinji Ikari deserves love. After all, he came to the determination that life is worth living. And he deserves a happy one for once.

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:11 pm

Shinji trying to kill Asuka is a lot worse than the hospital scene tbh
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Postby Basisunterbeschuss » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:14 pm

At the same time that I can understand Shinji through personal experiences, I feel so much that he seems miserable in the eyes of other people, something that I also perceive by my own perspicacity, it is not something pleasant to look at a totally dejected human being in the end only we will discuss that people need to go through the same feelings as he does to understand it, which may become unnecessary if you accept that people are different in a very broad context.

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Postby Nespubbly1 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:21 am

my own opinion is no. it is obvious we can understand why people hate Shinji, however I don't think that such amount of hate towards him is a what he deserves. people are all different so the experience he went through can make us understand his actions, if thinking about it for a sec.

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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:07 pm

I don't think fictional characters really deserve hate.
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Re: Does Shinji deserve all the hate?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:27 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:I don't think fictional characters really deserve hate.

Not even...someone like Asuka? Or Gendo?
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