Introduction, Toxicity of AsuShin and other things

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Re: Introduction, Toxicity of AsuShin and other things

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:32 am

"Shipping" is this site's version of "fake news". Just address the argument, whether or not the arguer is motivated by shipping isn't relevant.
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Re: Introduction, Toxicity of AsuShin and other things

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Postby Thomas68 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:04 pm

Both should just learn how to live with themselves before trying to think about any kind of relationship at all. If that's possible anyway.

Also, consider the huge possibility of holding a grudge for own or others past actions. In reality, very few people can leave their hatred behind them and move on, specially 14 year old kids who probably will have to deal with serious mental issues after the lulzfest that was Angel Wars and Instrumentality. Expect some therapy sessions under Xanax and Zoloft abuse. High chances of both overdosing on meds, if not shotgun mouthwash (a fitting end, might I add).

The odds of a bad blood between Shinji and Asuka rising is far greater than the odds of a "developed relationship" or "personal growth", whatever that means.

In the end, Insturmentality was nothing more than Neon Genesis Evangelion: Tang with LSD Bad Trip and Fapping Remorse.
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Re: Introduction, Toxicity of AsuShin and other things

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:44 am

View Original PostThomas68 wrote:Both should just learn how to live with themselves

They kinda did though. That was kinda what the climax of EOE was about.
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Re: Introduction, Toxicity of AsuShin and other things

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Postby C.T.1290 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:03 pm

If the whole relationship between Shinji and Asuka is toxic and hopeless, then why is it that Anno put them together in the first place? Especially towards the end? It's not like the shipping thing was his idea to begin with, nor was it his intention to go with it. I think it's certain that Shinji would be better off with another girl and for Asuka to be with another guy. At least they don't have to deal with each other. Because let's face it, their relationship was destined to fail.
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Re: Introduction, Toxicity of AsuShin and other things

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Postby Blockio » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:09 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:If the whole relationship between Shinji and Asuka is toxic and hopeless, then why is it that Anno put them together in the first place? Especially towards the end? It's not like the shipping thing was his idea to begin with, nor was it his intention to go with it. I think it's certain that Shinji would be better off with another girl and for Asuka to be with another guy. At least they don't have to deal with each other. Because let's face it, their relationship was destined to fail.

Where did you get that from?? By far not a AsuShin person myself, but its pretty clear that they dont seriously hate each other
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Re: Introduction, Toxicity of AsuShin and other things

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Postby pwhodges » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:10 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:Where did you get that from??

He has his very own thread on the matter.
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Re: Introduction, Toxicity of AsuShin and other things

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Postby CaesarMagnus » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:25 pm

C.T.1290 wrote:Then why is it that Anno put them together in the first place? Especially towards the end? .

In my opinion, Anno did a good job portraying Hedgehog’s Dilemma through the characters he created, and the case of Asuka and Shinji is a very extreme, yet clear, way of showing that dilemma. He could have chosen subtler ways of depicting it, for we all suffer of it in our daily interactions with people, according to Schopenhauer; but in Evangelion he chose to show it directly, and that’s why there’s so much tension and raw emotions that get to make us feel somehow uncomfortable (not only with Asuka and Shinji, but with Misato's case too, for instance).

As for shipping, I think many shippers consider NGE is a series of “boy meets girl”, and thus, come to the conclusion that there needs to be a romantic closure. For some reason, many people feel the necessity of giving such closure to all series and films, as if it made them feel better or filled a void in their hearts. However, Evangelion is not a romantic series whatsoever (and if it were romantic, it would be completely unconventional: “boy meets three girls and a gay alien”. No), and, as I see it, what Anno tries to convey is something very different from a rom-com: “shy boy meets other people and struggles to interact with them. He hates himself, but learns that life isn't as bad as he thought”.

If someone feels the imperative need of shipping characters to feel better or happy, it’s their problem. But, as far as the series/film are, as you said, I don’t think that was part of Anno’s plans. In EoTV and EoE he left everything ambiguous and open, up to the audience imagination, maybe because he wasn’t sure of what kind of closure he could give to his characters. That was an excellent idea, in my opinion.

Blockio wrote:It's pretty clear that they dont seriously hate each other

I know what you mean, and it’s true that they don’t hate everything of each other. But there’s a remarkable amount of hatred, disgust and disappointment in their relationship, and that’s what makes it utterly dysfunctional and toxic towards the end. If that hatred (whether it was genuine and/or based on self-hatred) wasn't serious, things would have been very different.
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Re: Introduction, Toxicity of AsuShin and other things

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:33 am

View Original PostCaesarMagnus wrote:I
I know what you mean, and it’s true that they don’t hate everything of each other. But there’s a remarkable amount of hatred, disgust and disappointment in their relationship, and that’s what makes it utterly dysfunctional and toxic towards the end. If that hatred (whether it was genuine and/or based on self-hatred) wasn't serious, things would have been very different.

That hatred would exist with or without each other.
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Re: Introduction, Toxicity of AsuShin and other things

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:38 pm

View Original PostCaesarMagnus wrote:I know what you mean, and it’s true that they don’t hate everything of each other. But there’s a remarkable amount of hatred, disgust and disappointment in their relationship, and that’s what makes it utterly dysfunctional and toxic towards the end. If that hatred (whether it was genuine and/or based on self-hatred) wasn't serious, things would have been very different.


Well yeah, but that's also a result of their frustration at themselves for not being to able to make it work. Asuka doesn't like the fact that she's attracted to Shinji, since it goes against her façade of the proud "elite pilot", but she does it anyway. And she gets even more frustrated with Shinji rejecting her, at least in her perception, since Shinji just generally didn't know what the hell she wanted. Hell, Asuka is really bad at communicating her intentions, like when she makes a relatively obscure Biblical reference to an average Japanese middle schooler boy, in hope he'll get that the Walls of Jericho are famous for falling. Yeah, nice going, overachieving German prodigy girl.

But like I've mentioned before, the fact that it's not unambiguously hate or love it's exacly because of the way it's used to make the story work. In some earlier posts myself and some other people mention that they are simply toxic as people, not only in their relationship with each other, at least up until EoE closes their character arcs - and starts new ones. Ultimately, whether one thinks they can at the very least become friends after EoE also hinges on one's views on the show at large: if humanity is strong enough to face reality and come back from Instrumentality, then why can't Asuka and Shinji at the very least forgive each other and get along (note that at no point is romance necessary). If humanity dooms itself to stay within the fantasy world of Instrumentality, then Shinji and Asuka might as well not have learned anything and will kill each other or something. Asuka expresses her disgust (though whether it's at him or at something else is hard to say), yet she also caresses him tenderly in an open display of affection that was not only impossible if she had nothing but contempt for him, but also disarmed him by making him realize he was indeed in reality and that not only did Asuka react to him instead of serving as an object for his desires (and then we get into the whole thing of escapism and objectification, yadda yadda), but also showed him she was, indeed, capable of something besides her tsun self, and that there was the possibility of positivity (to put it mildly) to be found in the real world. Whether they can learn and grow more, again, is left to the viewer. But I think that the very fact that, after so much grotesque death and suffering, Eva still presents us with the possibility (though not the certainty) of growth, change and happiness, that it is indeed quite optimistic.

I do understand and agree with your thoughts on shipping as a phenomenon though - most often than not it just generates needless drama and infighting. In some cases, some people can get so obsessive with their ships that they become outright aggressive and toxic towards everyone else in the fanbase, and usually don't even care about anything else in that work that doesn't involve their ship, sometimes twisting everything to fit their ship, or just outright ignoring it (far more often). I can think of a few fanbases which had their level of discussion greatly lowered because you just couldn't talk about anything without people trying to make it into a certain ship. Thankfully I rarely ever see that happening in the Eva fanbase.


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