Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Re: Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:11 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Can you site the source of the supplemental material?

Bro, I was talking about Evangelion in general, they always make supplemental material. Not everything happens on screen.
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Re: Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:57 pm

Fan theories especially.

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Re: Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

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Postby cyharding » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:39 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:That's weird, since Shinji has been controlled since movie 1, and Gendo didn't get the syringe until movie 2. Also, we never see the syringe used on Shinji, despite the fact that the movie spends almost it's entire time focusing on the important events of Shinji's life in that movie.


I would like to also remind everyone, that as of 3.33, Gendo still has it. I think it's the scene where he is looking at the giant Rei head that's in the middle command center. There is a shot of him holding the case that the key is in. So whatever it's meant for, it was not to be used until after the events of that film.

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Re: Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

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Postby Sachi » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:05 am

My current hypothesis is that the Key of Nebby is the final Adam. If we assume the other Adams are accounted for in the form of Mark 06, Unit-13, and Unit 01, that leaves one to be introduced in the final film.

We do know that the Key of Nebby is significant specifically for Gendo's plan, but not necessary for Seele's plan. We know this because they proceeded with their plans in 3.0 without it. The question is why. It could be because their needs were already met in the form Mark 06 during 2.0 (the "true" Evangelion), and later in the form of Unit 13 during 3.0. Both of which are Adams, so they had no use for an additional Adam in their plans. Gendo meanwhile was keeping both Unit 01 and the Key of Nebby under his sleeve. He showed his hand with Unit 01 at the end of 2.0, but kept the Key of Nebby a secret for over fourteen years.

Alright, here's where I start fanwanking. At this point, Unit 13 has absorbed Mark 06. Two of the four Adams have been consolidated into one. That leaves Unit 01 and the unknown 4th Adam. If the Key of Nebby is indeed the final Adam, which is in Gendo's possession, and if he then reacquires Unit 13 (like the concept art suggests he does), he'll have three Adams, and will no doubt set his sights on Unit 01 afterward. Gendo could be seeking to combine the Adams into one, reforming Albion/Adam Kadmon. If this is true, that would mean Gendo's plan is actually greatly divergent from Seele's. But again, this is just fanwanking.
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Re: Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

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Postby Ray » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:14 am

Makes more sense than the other theories I've had.
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Re: Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

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Postby Settie » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:00 pm

My personal fanwank regarding nebbz key is that it was what Seele used to shed their mortal bodies and is also the key ( :w00t: punny) to HIP in the NTE. It's what would allow humans to transcend and evolve beyond their humany selves. It's also why the FoI's were FoI in the first place, without the key they had no soul and therefore headless, I mean when Seele is being shut down there's a brief shot of what looks like an MRI scanned brain on the stone monoliths.

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Re: Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

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Postby Heaven Piercing Man » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:11 am

Nebby, get in the briefcase.
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Re: The Key is...

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Postby airman4 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:28 am

View Original Postqu4d wrote:Just a thought.

The Key of Nebuchadnezzer...
Image

iiiiiiiiiis...
Image
Evangelion 08!

Gendo will put the Key (being an embryo) in somebodys womb or something, resulting in the quickening of Eva 08.

And the syringe thingy?
Image
It's an early mini entry plug.

Flame on!


Probably all everybody noticed this but that key is used to build the nerves and meat of the giants ? (EVA 01,02 etc ?)

OMG

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Re: Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:49 pm

Kaji and Gendo say it's "kept as a backup" and will open the door to Human Instrumentality to unify all souls into god. My best guess is that it is or was the embryonic form of Unit 13 and was pushed into development once Mark.06 got borked during Third Impact. It having a freshly grown head would explain why it has four eyes when none of the silhouettes during Second Impact did (or there are more than four Adams which I've speculated about in the past). The big mystery is why Gendo was carrying the case when talking to Lilith's head, but I suppose it could have been put there to remind the audience that the Key existed. That was during the lead-up to Unit 13's launch and it's only present in that one scene, iirc.
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Postby Sachi » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:57 pm

The fact that Gendo is still holding onto the briefcase is a pretty clear indication that the Key of Nebby has yet to serve its purpose. It can't be Unit-13, because we see the "womb" housing Unit-13 very early in the movie, before we see Gendo still holding onto the case.
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Re: Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:42 am

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:Kaji and Gendo say it's "kept as a backup" and will open the door to Human Instrumentality to unify all souls into god. My best guess is that it is or was the embryonic form of Unit 13 and was pushed into development once Mark.06 got borked during Third Impact. It having a freshly grown head would explain why it has four eyes when none of the silhouettes during Second Impact did (or there are more than four Adams which I've speculated about in the past). The big mystery is why Gendo was carrying the case when talking to Lilith's head, but I suppose it could have been put there to remind the audience that the Key existed. That was during the lead-up to Unit 13's launch and it's only present in that one scene, iirc.

Maybe it was kept in backup in case the Adam and Lilith thing didn't pan out?

Maybe he's going to use the key in order to wake up Yui or maybe even join her inside the core?

Another idea that I had was that the key opens up the Chamber of guf. But I have no idea what soul he would want to retrieve.

Another possibility is that it can give him access to one of the moons or seeds that landed on Earth, or even ba catalyst 4 turning one of the Lance's of longinus into a Lance of Cassius.
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Re: Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

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Postby Cybermat47 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:19 am

Someone’s probably already bought this up, but the name Nebuchadnezzer, when translated from Akkadian to English, is “O god Nabu, preserve/defend my firstborn son”.

I doubt that this name was chosen by coincidence, so... do we have a key to preserving/defending a firstborn son?

My first thought was that the “firstborn son” is Shinji, and Gendo’s ultimate goal has something to do with protecting Shinji (in the usual fucked up Gendo way).

But then I remembered who the ultimate firstborn son is in Christianity - Adam. So perhaps the key has something to do with protecting the Adams? Does it enable the Adams to be resurrected into Evas, and has already been used multiple times for the other Adam Evas?
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Postby one-eyed » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:32 am

Cybermat47 wrote: My first thought was that the “firstborn son” is Shinji, and Gendo’s ultimate goal has something to do with protecting Shinji (in the usual fucked up Gendo way).


After all this time, I still find it incredible that there is someone in this universe who believes that Gendo ever cared for Shinji for a single second. :???:

The bizarre situation is that for several years I say that Instrumentality is a magic drug that will solve all the problems in the world. Now, I see that the key to Gendo's happiness is a magic syringe :facepalm: . I wanted to see how the psychopath will apply that to himself without appearing to be a heroin addict.

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Re: Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

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Postby Cybermat47 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:51 pm

View Original Postone-eyed wrote:After all this time, I still find it incredible that there is someone in this universe who believes that Gendo ever cared for Shinji for a single second. :???:


Which is why I said “in the usual fucked up Gendo way”, meaning that Gendo’s possible “care” results in far more harm than good.
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Re: Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

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Postby airman4 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:13 pm

At least gendo didnt pointed a Gun towards Shinji threatening his life ^_^

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Postby one-eyed » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:31 am

airman4 wrote:At least gendo didnt pointed a Gun towards Shinji threatening his life ^_^


Gendo could not be so direct because of Yui. He probably does not know her level of consciousness within Unit 01, so he used a cat's paw: the angels.

This is a biblical strategy to get rid of enemies and keep his hands clean:

King David seduced and impregnated Bathsheba while her husband, Uriah, was at war. The King called the betrayed husband and tried to deceive him so that he had sex with the woman and thought the child was his. It did not work out because he was a soldier and did not think it right to be home with his wife while his brothers in arms were fighting and dying at that moment.

Then the King sent him back to the war with a letter to the general. The letter ordered the general to send Uriah to the strongest enemies so that he would die. After Uriah died, King David married Bathsheba. A more modern version of this story you can see in The Man in the Iron Mask (1998 film) where King Louis XIV (Leonardo DiCaprio) does the same maneuver with Raoul (the son of Athos) to seduce his fiancée Christine.

In NGE, Gendo sent his son with absolutely no training for the war. He knew there was a good chance he would fight and made sure he was totally unprepared. If you do not believe me think about the fight against Gaghiel, he sent his own son, who does not know how to swim, to fight at sea with an Eva who was not equipped for underwater fighting and, the worst, he did not even know if Eva would work with him! (Note that he was not counting on Asuka, see his conversation with Kaji!)). Sometimes, I agree with a comedy Eva fanfiction in which Shinji suspects that his father thinks he is Amuro of Gundam.

Personally, I think Gendo is a fool, but a Lucky Bastard: even when he does shit, he does well, after all it's the avatar of the author, but there are those who think that Gendo is a visionary genius, a master manipulator, a brilliant scientist and a supreme strategist, that is, an invincible Mary Sue. You choose.

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Re: Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

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Postby airman4 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:10 am

Maybe i'm wrong and all but Maybe Gendo is what he is not because he is a fool but because of
YUI

The experimentation, the way it happened seemed to be different in NGE and NTE
One seemed to be an accident if i remember and the new one seemed to be like on purpose , Yui wanted to become "GOD" by dying and merge with Lilith soul

I dont remember correctly but i think it happened those ways , in any case the result seemed to be the same , gendo became only the way he is after that.

To me it doesnt seem to be gendo to be a psycho from the beginning but after YUI became a "GOD"
Also his behavior explains cause he wants to reunite with Yui again
Still i agree with the whole "he is not the father of the year thing"

For the treatment of his pilots, have to do probably with the budget and money, mostly in the old series , i remember Nerv was actually a bunch of amateurs for the NAVY army !



PS : And when Shinji rebelled and refused to get out of the EVA 01 (rebuild 01 i think) , he didnt actually punished Shinji as we punish rebellious soldier in real life (martial court and shoot execution afterwards for the most )

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Postby one-eyed » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:43 am

I respect your opinion, but I think you're being too romantic! You're reminding me of Littlefinger's widows! I think it's funny how the romantics see Gendo: Tragic! Complex! Confused! Hurted! Tortured by his immense love for Yui! For me, he's a very easy-to-understand character. He wanted power and was willing to do anything to get it. He approached Yui to reach Seele and later used and discarded Naoko and Ritsuko. This is a modus operandi for me. He did not use and dismissed Yui simply because he has serious mother issues and Yui was an excellent maternal figure for him, at least until Shinji was born and attempted to rob her of him.

Gendo is a bitter, arrogant sociopath whose best feature just might be his uncaring amorality in most affairs. His facade of cold, amoral cruelty hides a heart filled with... more cold, amoral cruelty. Anyone who tries to find anything else in Gendo pretty much deserves whatever she gets (see Naoko and Ritsuko, for example!). Most romantics think that Gendo likes to toy with other people emotions (Naoko, Ritsuko, Rei, Shinji, etc.), but there is no true malice in his actions — only the wicked glee of an amoral child. I think it's your right to think so. Some romantic people wonder if Gendo’s mean-spirited, gloomy, harsh exterior hides an unloved child who never truly knew warmth and could somehow be reached — through the power of true love, perhaps. These people should probably stop watching sugary teenage romances. Gendo doesn’t give a shit about consequences. He is unfettered by human morals and incapable of human empathy… which can be intensely charming to many people, so long as you’re not in his way!

For many people, good and evil is just a matter of perspective. Which ever side of the argument he is own will be the righteous side in his point of view. The winner writes the history books - books which glorify his own cause and demonize the conquered foe. Each evil act in world's history was justified by his perpetrators. Sociopaths as Gendo see themselves as the heroes of their own story. Hitler saw himself as hero/savior of Germany…

I think he's an idiot because of his insane plans worthy of a Ponzi scheme operator! Gendo's plans have no sequel and are poorly formulated:

Gendo left to summon Shinji at the last second using a piece of paper that he picked up in the trash can with a single word "Come!" What if Shinji had not come? That he had run away? I counted five different ways of Shinji dying on the way to Geofront! Gendo had not even thawed the Eva 01 for the fight!! He was posing in front of the JSDF leaders, but he had no idea what to do! It was pure luck that everything worked.

In the incident with Gaghiel was more bizarre: he knew that the angel would come after Adam and sent Misato and Shinji to the aircraft carrier in case Asuka could not fight and needed help. He did not even know if Eva 02 was compatible with Shinji. Eva was not ready to fight on the water and Shinji could not even swim! The luck was that the angel was dumber than a potato and, for plot reasons, it decided to attack Eva 02 instead of continuing the persecution of Kaji and Adam. All the angel had to do was this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I16_8l0yS-g&t=48s and it would have won!

Gendo, in the middle of the fight with Zeruel, climbed on a platform and watched the fight. Why the hell did he do that? Is he pulling aggro to help Shinji?When the blood spurt hit the bastard he should have crashed into the wall and died like an idiot, but Gary Stu self-insert need not worry about those things! The laws of physics for a self insert are just a hint of how to behave! Sometimes, I think Anno exaggerates Gendo's luck so much that I suspect the character is some kind of predestined. After all, Luck is just another name for Destiny!

I really think he's a lucky idiot and a complete monster, but I understand that some villains do not even know they're villain, maybe that's how you see him. There is a phrase misquoted to Napoleon Bonaparte that said: "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.” This can be applied to Gendo. He came to power for political maneuvering and pure luck. His mistakes never exploded in his face and Anno does not even try to hide it. Gendo maybe is deluded through insanity, religious belief, or just stupidity. He commit horrible acts and maybe never realize what it is that he do. As a foolish villain, he might suspect that his acts and thoughts are tainted, but he’s too apathetic to try to uncover the truth. Blindly committing evil acts because it is just easier that way. The misguided fool easily become a truly sinister villain over time, continuing his evil deeds while his own perceptions veer ever farther from reality.

airman4 wrote: P.S.: And when Shinji rebelled and refused to get out of the EVA 01 (rebuild 01 i think) , he didnt actually punished Shinji as we punish rebellious soldier in real life (martial court and shoot execution afterwards for the most )


Shinji was not a soldier, not even had basic military training. Gendo guaranteed it! He did not kill him simply because he could brainwash him later. Gendo was hesitant because there was a risk that Shinji might no longer be compatible with Eva 01, but thanks to the dummy plug, he did not have to worry anymore. Even if the procedure destroyed his own son's mind, Gendo would probably make him disappear until needed again, as a lobotomized pilot, or if Shinji was lucky, to end up forgotten in some shallow grave. Unfortunately for Shinji, there was no time thanks to Zeruel's attack.

In addition, Gendo likes to see Shinji suffer. In the first episode, after making his triumphant and dramatic entrance (as befits a diva!). The asshole does the staredown ritual in Shinji to reassert his power. It was childish and stupid. In a critical situation like that, what's the point of doing that? Is Gendo only a school bully?

As for Nebuchadnezzar's Key, I think it serves the function of showing that Gendo never betrayed Seele because he was never on their side. He planned to use them and discard them as he always did with everyone.

In the original, when Kaji brings the embryo to Tokyo-3, Seele did not even discover or give importance. Only in the 21st episode we see what really culminated in that moment. Maybe we have the same opportunity to see them in NTE. Observe the sequence of events in NGE:

1 - Gendo knows Yui and uses her to approach Seele.

2 - Gendo becomes Seele's errand boy, travels to Antarctica, collects all "incomplete" research from the Katsuragi Expedition and conveniently leaves the place one day before the Second Impact. Days later (conveniently again) a nuclear bomb explodes in Tokyo and begins the construction of Tokyo-2, after Tokyo-3 and Geofronte. Gendo becomes the boss of Gehirn and makes a fortune (conveniently again).

3 - When he talk about his great and powerful plan for Fuyutsuki, curiously, he is with Naoko and not Yui. why? Because a man who lies and hides things from his wife tends to talk to his lover. He does not even tell Yui that he planned to summon the old slave eunuch!

4 - After Yui is absorbed, Gendo disappears for a week and when he returns he gives Seele the formula / Ritual of Instrumentality that no one has been able to solve. In a single week, the supposedly emotionally shaken bastard solved what Seele could not do with the world's greatest scientists and resources in four years? What is more likely is that he got rid of the garbage (Shinji!) In any hole and researched the work of Dr. Katsuragi that he had confiscated, stolen and hidden (officially the search was incomplete, but Gendo was never famous for his honesty! ) and 11 years later tried the forbidden union of Adam and Lilith that Seele did not even know.

In the current version, I thought his "betrayal" would have been to awaken Eva 01 in advance, but thanks to Kaworu's intervention and his phrase about "the promised time has come", I think Kaji was wrong (it would not be the first time, in the original he confused Lilith with Adam!). Gendo's “betrayal” was not to have eliminated the twelfth angel. For the ritual, it was necessary to eliminate all the angels and in sequence. With the twelfth angel living, the Seele ritual would not work. In addition, Kaworu broke a hidden taboo (in NGE, but not in manga) of the ritual: two angels should not be active at the same time. Kaworu has always been protected and hidden on the Moon, more than 300,000 km away. In the only time he came near another angel he became the thirteenth who was not in Seele's "holy writings." This was already armed long before Shinji even walked, Gendo cared so little about his son that he did not even bother to kill him when his usefulness was over. Is it is the respect for Yui's wishes that the sick mind of the bastard has been able to give or was he really lazy?


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