The End Times?

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The End Times?

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Postby El Squibbonator » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:35 am

In a few days' time the Federal Communications Commission will vote on whether or not to repeal its policy of treating all internet service and data provision equally--otherwise known as "net neutrality". If this is repealed, and it likely will be, it could result in only the largest, wealthiest companies having control over web traffic. Smaller service providers who cannot compete, or who the large providers decide that they simply disagree with, will have their internet service interfered with to the point that they are ineffective.
So what does that mean for us here on the Evageeks forum? Can we keep this forum afloat in this new world?
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Re: The End Times?

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Postby pwhodges » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:14 am

This forum will not signify on the radar of any company cherry-picking traffic; it will therefore remain in the default "simply works, but with no favours" category. Possible wars between major content and news providers will not involve trivia like us. At the worst there could be a slight degradation in performance because of the favouring of certain other traffic, but I see no prospect of censorship - that, if it happens, would get aimed at politically significant news groups.

If things were hugely worse than I expect, the solution would probably be as simple as rehosting outside the US - not that hard to do. If the US networks were to indulge in wholesale blocking of foreign media, then they would be seriously compromising the position of the US in the world. (Not to say that such a thing is impossible, as it's already starting in some areas of politics - though Britain's Brexit obsession is ahead on points.)
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Re: The End Times?

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:09 am

Net Neutrality as we know it has only existed in US for the past two years. And tbh, I don't remember the internet pre-2015 being so slow I couldn't connect to various websites at a decent speed. I believe Ina a sense, there is a bit of an overreaction going on. Sure, what the FCC is doing is wrong. The moron in charge leading this nonsense is probably a corporate shill, but this is what happens when federal agencies are given the power to regulate without congressional oversight.

Still, in the last two years, internet speeds haven't changed all that much, and if you think about it, those two years of regulation didn't really do anything positive or negative, I didn't even notice a difference in my connection from then until now.

So are we just overreacting (see the title of the thread, which is just shy of clickbait) or should we just wait until the rule is either affirmed or repealed and given an effective end date before we lose our collective shit. Cause honestly, I'm so tired of seeing net neutrality arguments. We didn't have it for how many years and the companies didn't screw us over. But now all of a sudden it's an issue? Come on...
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Re: The End Times?

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Postby Chuckman » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:59 pm

Net Neutrality was a formalized doctrine for two years but the “common carrier” aspect of the Internet was assumed prior to that, and several litigations over throttling and blocking of services (an ISP trying to block VOIP to force people to use their own, for example) have consistently been decided in favor of common carrier neutrality.

I posted a link to the list in the other thread. It’s not overreacting to expect companies to do shit they have literally already tried to do.

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Re: The End Times?

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Postby robersora » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:26 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:This forum will not signify on the radar of any company cherry-picking traffic; it will therefore remain in the default "simply works, but with no favours" category. Possible wars between major content and news providers will not involve trivia like us. At the worst there could be a slight degradation in performance because of the favouring of certain other traffic, but I see no prospect of censorship - that, if it happens, would get aimed at politically significant news groups.


Does that mean, this decision would enhance competition between tech giants? So at least prices for those services might fall, if nothing else.
Will the net neutrality decision affect people living in Europe using American services? Or do Netflix, Amazon, Google etc. run on different servers here in Europe?
Speaking of... Didn't the EU cancel net neutrality in exchange for abolishing roaming fees?
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Re: The End Times?

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Postby Chuckman » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:13 pm

No. They'll all pay the fee and they have enough users that they can threaten the ISPs with them. It will be a tool that the ISPs and tech giants use to pull up the ladder behind them so the next Google, Amazon etc. that is poised to take advantage of an untapped niche or unique business model/theory will only get off the ground if the tech giants and broadcast/isp megaconglomerates allow them to, which they won't. They'll either just shut them down with high fees for usable speeds or steal their idea and offer a competing service of their own without bandwith or speed caps.

It won't be an overnight process. They're not going to slam the gates down on Friday. Over the next few months/years they'll find ways to market ways for them to get more money out of consumers and providers as convenience features and when people are used to it, then they'll start charging more for/block Neflix and offer their own streaming service in its place, for example.

This is bad for the same reason it would be bad if the phone company could decide when and how often you can call a specific business and offer unlimited calling of their own.

Regulatory capture (which is what repeal of Net Neutrality is) fosters monopoly power and destroys competition. You can't compete with someone who writes the laws to benefit their existing business.

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Re: The End Times?

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Postby Mr. Tines » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:47 am

Here's a bit of sanity on the USAnian net neutrality issue -- https://spectator.org/everybody-is-wron ... eutrality/

Truly the problem in the States is a lack of market forces in the consumer space for all telecommunications, with effective regional monopolies, usually based on the last-mile operators being allowed exclusivity. The break-up of Ma Bell wasn't done as well as the equivalent removal of the Post Office Telecommunications monopoly, something that bemused me when I found out about the state of mobile phone provision across the Pond back in the 80s.
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Re: The End Times?

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Postby Chuckman » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:59 pm

That article is libertarian garbage. Maybe we could act like a modern nation, and instead of trusting the companies that were already given handouts to improve our telecommunications infrastructure and just kept it (source) we could use government for its intended and natural purpose to improve the lives and commerce of the people through great collective works.

Oh, I forgot we can't do that because the government, which built the Hoover Dam, Tennessee Valley Authority, the interstate highway system, and put human beings on the fucking moon can't be trusted. We have to trust the people who take money and just keep it instead of doing the job they were paid for. If I pay some guy to do a job for me and he never shows up that's clearly a sign I'm corrupt, right?

After all, they can be trusted not to preferentially throttle traffic to strangle competition for their own services such as voice communications and streaming, offered in a horizontal monopoly structure, and other abuses. They've never been taken to court over that.

A former lawyer for Verizon would clearly have our best interests at heart and wouldn't engage in regulatory capture for his old employer.

Also, that article mentions startup ISPs, which is just laughable. Because Comcast and Verizon are going to allow a startup ISP to lay last mile cable, which they will somehow get the money for.

Oh, and another point for that article:

Oh no big tech is behind regulating ISPs!

Fucking good. Big tech is going to be the driver of the US economy going forward. Net Neutrality regulations will allow more startups to become Big Tech instead of allowing Big Tech and the ISPs to not only control and filter our communications as they see fit, but pull up the ladder behind them and shut everyone else out of that sector of the economy.

Also let's consider the source when we read that article.

The same website posted this: https://spectator.org/sex-vigilantes-trash-due-process/ and this https://spectator.org/senator-gillibran ... fake-news/ and this https://spectator.org/on-one-senator-ca ... er-a-slut/ and I present these links without comment.

One more final edit: Don't lose heart over Net Neutrality, people. The government will be taken to court over this and the FCC will have to prove that this change in rules isn't arbitrary and capricious. When that case is litigated the issue of huge numbers of fake comments from dead people, etc. will be brought to light by the state attorneys general that are working to correct this. Also, the FCC's arbitrary and unconstitutional addendum to the proposed rules that states cannot implement Net Neutrality rules of their own will also be taken to court. Washington State has already announced they will impose NN themselves.

Day 1 DLC edit: Here's a source on the NY AG filing suit: http://thehill.com/policy/technology/36 ... ity-repeal

On Disk DLC edit: The rules have been repealed. Prepare your orifices.
Last edited by Chuckman on Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The End Times?

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:22 pm

This topic seems to be straying into the SD realm. I know I'm not anything close to a mod, but it's just what I'm seeing.
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Re: The End Times?

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Postby Chuckman » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:31 pm

I make it a point not to comment on forum rules on forums where I'm not a moderator, but I will now.

If "this is straying into SD territory" is used an excuse to allow people to post libertarian bullshit from websites that slut shame senators and accusers while any reply is shut down with the "no SD" rule, then the rule is bullshit. That's all I have to say on the matter.

I'm not going to push this. I've said my piece, people can draw their own conclusions based on what's been posted and make up their own minds, and any further argumentation from me will do nothing but risk alienating people. I said what I felt needed to be said.

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Re: The End Times?

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Postby Monk Ed » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:49 am

I find these articles compelling:

https://www.wired.com/2013/07/we-need-t ... mpetition/
http://www.businessinsider.com/internet ... 017-4/#-13

I can't help but notice that they offer the same solution but frame it in opposite terms, possibly to appeal to different audiences. Me, I find the offered solution to be compatible with my ideology.

(TL;DR: echoing Tines's observation re: last-mile infrastructure.)

View Original PostChuckman wrote:If "this is straying into SD territory" is used an excuse

It won't be.
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Re: The End Times?

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Postby fukuda » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:23 pm

tbh it would be kinda better if the internet is killed
people are better off quiet than saying "im horny and suicidal"
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