Rebuild is shallow tangent

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

Moderators: New Moderators, Board Staff

FreakyFilmFan4ever
(In)Sufficient Director
(In)Sufficient Director
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 7569
Joined: Jun 09, 2009
Location: Playing amongst the stars
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Rebuild is shallow tangent

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:54 am

Eva's perception between the two countries was the main reason why I ended up dipping into NGE for a while, though I may have lingered there too far in order to really benefit the discussion at hand. But, before leaving NGE all together, I'll simply point out that its sexualization of the characters in the main narrative was part of the reason why it was so shocking for the prime-time airings it had. However, if it had been aired in the late-night hours, like much of the other mature anime titles are in Japan, Eva probably wouldn't have risen to quite the pop culture level of awareness as quickly as it did. This probably would have resulted in the current NTE titles being received a little differently in Japan than they are right now.

I still hold that, because of the differences in marketing and sales practices of Eva between Japan and the US, that it does cause the different audiences to relate to them in different ways, thereby having US audiences place more importance on the prominence of certain elements of the franchise than the Japanese do. (Though, Funimation is slightly better at having more genre-appropriate ads to place on their Eva video releases than ADV was.) But then, that might also be the difference between how pop culture behaves and how sub culture behaves. In Japan Eva has always been pop culture. In the US Eva has always sub culture, which, in general, tends to have audiences members who are more specific in their preferences than pop culture audiences are. So Asuka having less screen time can result in a "make-or-break" relationship with audiences in the US, while in Japan it would, at most, be seen by many audience members as a slight disappointment.

In that case, I guess it's also fair to point out that Eva is also followed by sub culture in Japan, along with its native pop culture following. And since sub cultures tend to contribute in online forums, there are probably similar internet debates held by that sub culture being had in Japanese about how Asuka's lack of screen time is a deal-breaker. The only difference between the US and Japan in that case would be that America doesn't also have its pop culture audience members enjoying Eva to off-set those sub culture viewpoints.
Last edited by FreakyFilmFan4ever on Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mr. Tines
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar
Age: 60
Posts: 19817
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
Location: This sceptered isle.
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Rebuild is shallow tangent

Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:02 pm

OK, let's try this again.
Reminder: Play nicely <<>> My vanity publishing:- NGE|blog|Photos|retro-blog|Fanfics|G+|MAL
Avatar: Ritsu-chan

kuribo-04
Arael
Arael
User avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 866
Joined: Feb 03, 2013
Location: Germany again, before that Spain
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Rebuild is shallow tangent

Postby kuribo-04 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:59 pm

"Everything people love from NGE is clearly absent here"

Wut.
It's the Rebuild with the strongest NGE feel.

Also anybody complaining about Asuka having less depth than in NGE should understand that this isn't NGE and that a character with far less screen time than the protagonist of a movie having less depth than the main character doesn't make the character or the movie bad.
Unless we want to do pointless comparisons with NGE for comparison's sake.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
"In any case, it (Kill la Kill) is the greatest work of fiction ever written and should be taught in schools." -Squigsquasher
~('.'~) (~'.')~ Dancin Kirby

Asuka'sBigBrother
Adam
Posts: 85
Joined: Oct 20, 2017
Gender: Male

Re: Rebuild is shallow tangent

Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:15 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:"Everything people love from NGE is clearly absent here"

Image

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:"
Also anybody complaining about Asuka having less depth than in NGE should understand that this isn't NGE and that a character with far less screen time than the protagonist of a movie having less depth than the main character doesn't make the character or the movie bad.
Unless we want to do pointless comparisons with NGE for comparison's sake.

What this ignores is that Asuka's relationship with Shinji gave him depth that he's now missing. A main character having well developed relationships with supporting characters can be massive for depth.

And no, "not enough screentime" isn't an excuse when you're wasting time adding a whole bunch of characters you never go anywhere meaningful with, large "bigger is better!" action scenes, and fan service.

If you're cutting for screen time, you cut what isn't important or what doesn't contribute to your story. Anno chose flashier and large action scenes, and more minor background characters, over well developed characters and a deeper story.

As he got his priorities wrong, the movie coincidentally ended up as cheapened and shallower version of itself. Screen Time doesn't get the blame for the shallower story, how Anno decided to use that screen time does.

Finally, these comparisons aren't pointless. NGE is a reboot. When you make a story which is retelling a story that's already been told, that story you're making is going to be compared to the original one.

FreakyFilmFan4ever
(In)Sufficient Director
(In)Sufficient Director
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 7569
Joined: Jun 09, 2009
Location: Playing amongst the stars
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Rebuild is shallow tangent

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:32 pm

Can you give an example where Asuka's abundant screen time in NGE gave Shinji's character arc more depth?

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:NGE is a reboot.

I think you misspoke here, unless the 1995 TV show was a reboot of an earlier title that I am unaware existed.

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 71
Posts: 9413
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Rebuild is shallow tangent

Postby pwhodges » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:41 am

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:When you make a story which is retelling a story that's already been told, that story you're making is going to be compared to the original one.

And when the comparison shows that the stories are not as similar as you initially thought, then making a big deal of it at that level starts to look misconceived.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: Sad, sad Shinji... (details); Past avatars.
Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

Asuka'sBigBrother
Adam
Posts: 85
Joined: Oct 20, 2017
Gender: Male

Re: Rebuild is shallow tangent

Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:05 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Can you give an example where Asuka's abundant screen time in NGE gave Shinji's character arc more depth?


I think you misspoke here, unless the 1995 TV show was a reboot of an earlier title that I am unaware existed.

Bruh, you haven't heard of the earth 2 nge? Baka :facepalm:

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:And when the comparison shows that the stories are not as similar as you initially thought, then making a big deal of it at that level starts to look misconceived.


The similarity isn't relevant. The narrative purpose of a reboot is to replace an original work of art, hence it should be compared to the work it's replacing.

And no, whether or not you can still access NGE doesn't change the significance of a reboot from a narrative perspective.
Last edited by Asuka'sBigBrother on Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Joseki
Sandalphon
Sandalphon
User avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 510
Joined: Dec 27, 2016
Location: Italy
Gender: Male

Re: Rebuild is shallow tangent

Postby Joseki » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:46 pm

Considering that the movies are not replacing anything the comparison betweent "new Evangelion" and "nothing" is kinda pointless.

Maybe we should compare the "old Evangelion" and the "new Evangelion" as two artistic creations born from Anno's desire to put himself in film. Feelings and desires doesn't get replaced, they simply change over time.
「希望は残っているよ。どんな時にもね」

29/07/2017

FreakyFilmFan4ever
(In)Sufficient Director
(In)Sufficient Director
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 7569
Joined: Jun 09, 2009
Location: Playing amongst the stars
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Rebuild is shallow tangent

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:27 pm

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:The narrative purpose of a reboot is to replace an original work of art, hence it should be compared to the work it's replacing.

And no, whether or not you can still access NGE doesn't change the significance of a reboot from a narrative perspective.

Can you provide sources for this argument, be it statements from the director or specific scenes in New Theatrical Evangelion that suggest it was meant to replace NGE?

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 71
Posts: 9413
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Rebuild is shallow tangent

Postby pwhodges » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:02 pm

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:The narrative purpose of a reboot is to replace an original work of art, hence it should be compared to the work it's replacing.

Or maybe it's meant to stand alongside it, not replace it - in which case you're still free to compare them and have your own opinion about which you prefer. But remember that other people can have a different opinion without harming you, and that some might (shock, horror!) like both works. What you shouldn't do is impute a motive to the originator of the works which they clearly do not have.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: Sad, sad Shinji... (details); Past avatars.
Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

Asuka'sBigBrother
Adam
Posts: 85
Joined: Oct 20, 2017
Gender: Male

Re: Rebuild is shallow tangent

Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:10 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Can you provide sources for this argument, be it statements from the director or specific scenes in New Theatrical Evangelion that suggest it was meant to replace NGE?

What's a reboot?
Let's look at the dictionary:

to start something again or do something again, in a way that is new and interesting:


By definition, Anno's reboot is retelling the story of NGE.

Gendo'sPapa
First Ancestor
First Ancestor
User avatar
Posts: 4388
Joined: Oct 24, 2006
Location: At the Movies
Gender: Male

Re: Rebuild is shallow tangent

Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:16 pm

Correct.
No one has denied Anno is retelling the story of Eva. That's a given. He's retelling the story in a new form after over a decade's worth of new life experiences and from a very different mindset.
But, you have been adamant in your absolute (and flawed) belief that Rebuild is replacing NGE which has never been the case.

Either way, people should stop feeding the EvaTroll.

Asuka'sBigBrother
Adam
Posts: 85
Joined: Oct 20, 2017
Gender: Male

Re: Rebuild is shallow tangent

Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:04 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:No one has denied Anno is retelling the story of Eva. That's a given. He's retelling the story in a new form after over a decade's worth of new life experiences and from a very different mindset.

But, you have been adamant in your absolute (and flawed) belief that Rebuild is replacing NGE which has never been the case.

When you retell a story, your replacing the original story with a retold version of the story. If you're going to retell a story, then it's absolutely fair for me to judge the retelling based on how it compares to the original tale.

And no, my opinion isn't absolute, however you seem to misunderstand that yours isn't. So silly posturing like "ur opinion is flawed because I say so" is rather pointless, much like the movies you're trying to defend(and yea, that's an opinion).

Whether or not NGE reruns cans still be watched doesn't change that as a narrative, NGE has ended. Hence, if you put a new version of NGE, it's taking NGE's place.
Oh yea!, well ur, ur a troll!!!!

Aw :sniffle:

Seriously though, I'm not interested in babysitting you. If grade-school name calling is all you have to offer, stop wasting my time.

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Can you give an example where Asuka's abundant screen time in NGE gave Shinji's character arc more depth?

Their instrumentality scenes, their interactions where we see Shinji get pushed out of his shell, the kiss scene where we see Shinji's fear of opening himself up, the final scene where Shinji finally expresses his grief rather than try to suppress it.

Their relationship is a key part of Shinji's characterization.
Last edited by Asuka'sBigBrother on Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sachi
Oh Daddy!
Oh Daddy!
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 9879
Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Location: Hollywoo
Gender: Male

Re: Rebuild is shallow tangent

Postby Sachi » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:48 pm

This has gone in circles for a few pages now, so maybe it's time to take a break? Putting the thread on time-out.
"Chaos is merely a human construct. The world only knows its own natural law of harmony and order."
"So you are saying it's the human heart that throws the world into confusion."


Return to “Rebuild of Evangelion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests