Well they moved the embargo up a couple days. That's good news.

I'm expecting 'X-Men Apocalypse' levels of reception. it gets a 50-40% on the tomato meter. There are a few 'awesome moments' in it that people like (people went to Apocalypse purely for the Quicksilver scene), that make people give it the benefit of a doubt.

I hope.

That image of Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman is most certainly salvageable.

Critics are being allowed to express opinions on Twitter. No reviews for a while thought I think.

Consensus seems to be the movie is actually fun. Has a lot of issues - story is a complete mess, the villain is an absolute bore, the reshoots are glaringly obvious - BUT it mostly works because the cast of heroes play off each other well & they've stopped force feeding "gritty darkness" down the audience's throat.

So that's a pleasant surprise.

Heres the general rundown from Reddit.

Paul Shirley, Joblo - Mixed Positive

Kevin McCarthy - Positive

Brandon Davis, Comic Book Now - Positive

Mike R, Gamespot - Positive

Jenna Busch, ComingSoon.net - Mixed Positive

Jim Vejvoda, IGN - F U N (Mixed)

Sean Gerber, Superhero News - Mixed Positive

Frosty from Collider - Mixed

Rob Keyes, Screenrant - Mixed Positive

Mark Hughes, Forbes - Positive

Germain Lussier, Gizmodo - Mixed

Perri Nemiroff, Collider - Mixed

Dennis Tzeng, Collider - Mixed

Aaron Sagers, SyfyWire - F U N (Mixed Positive)

Josh L Dickey, Mashable - Negative

Connor Schwerdtfeger, CinemaBlend - Mixed

Haley Fouch, Collider - Positive

Roxy Striar, DC Movie News - Positive

Justin Davis, Complex - Positive

Albert Ching, Comic Book Resources - Positive

Peter Sciretta, SlashFilm - Mixed Positive

Terri Schwartz, IGN - Positive

Dan Casey, Nerdist - Mixed Positive

Brian Truitt, USA Today - Positive

Tiffany Smith, DC All Access - Positive

Jon Schnepp, Collider - Mixed Positive

Nate Braill, Heroic Hollywood - F U N (Mixed Positive)

Chris Sylvia, Regal Cinemas - Positive

Kara Warner, People Magazine - Positive

Johnny Loquasto - Positive

Adam Gertler, FX Movie Download - Positive

Ben Bateman, Afterbuzz TV - Positive

David Crow, Den of Geek - Positive

Mike Kalinowski, Collider - Positive

Xilla Valentine - Positive

Chris Nashawtay, EW - Mixed

Mark Daniell, Toronto Sun - Positive

Number of Positive (Including Mixed Positive Reactions): 29

Number of Mixed Reactions: 7

Number of Negative Reactions: 1

story is a complete mess,

What can you expect when the studio forced Zack Snyder to change it at Gunpoint? Of course it was going to be a tonally dissonant mess. The best we could hope for was 'how much of a mess'? Again, part of me would have preferred DC stick to their guns and stand by Zack rather than sell out. But if it means we don't alienate a general audience? If it means we can move on and put all this hate behind us? Fine.

Remember, despite Suicide Squad bombing with Critics they did say the characters were the saving grace of that movie and it did succeed with a general audience. When the review is released it's probably going to be the same thing. These likely aren't going to be indicative of the RT score.

Again. I'm hoping for a 50% at best. Man Of Steel level reception.

they've stopped force feeding "gritty darkness" down the audience's throat.

UUUUUUGH.

I friggin hate how DC goes out of it's way to demonize dark storylines, themes, and a 'realistic' tone the second it stops making them money. or when they mess up ONCE they attribute the failure to the tone of the story, and not to the failings of the movie itself. Batman Returns bombed? They brought in Joel Schumacher. Green Lantern bombed? They brought in Chris Nolan and Zack Snyder. New 52 bombed? They through all of it out the window with Rebirth (though that was a lot more nuanced than I thought it was going to be).

All I have to say is, thank God Logan succeeded. Because if it had bombed we'd never see a Superhero movie that takes itself seriously ever again.

Is it even possible to make a 'serious grounded' superhero movie like the Dark Knight or Logan click with a mainstream audience with a character that Isn't a character in that dark Anti-Hero archetype? I mean, can you make a "Logan-type" story with say Superman?

No, you can't tell a Logan type story with Superman.

You can tell a story about a heroic sacrifice, sure. You can tell a story about Superman facing the end of his life and making choices to define his legacy. You can tell a story about Superman confronting a world whose ideals are changing, and so on, and so forth. They don't look like Logan. They look like All-Star Superman and Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?

Wolverine is a vastly different character. You couldn't make Logan with Superman anymore than you could make Logan with a perfect man who came from the sky to do only good.

I mean, I'd get it if you wanted a more serious exploration of Superman coming to a modern, 2010's era Earth and how the cynical post-9/11 world would deal with him. I'd watch a movie where Superman tries to bring hope to the Irony Generation who use postmodernist detachment from everything to escape the crushing reality of a declining West and and uncertain future, but Logan with Superman slotted in just sounds like a terrible movie.

Superman is just the worst character to try to make dark and gritty. It's like making Santa Claus dark and gritty. It's not who he is.

Things have become incredibly muddled and been put in all or nothing terms.
So that there is no confusion.
I have never asked for a "dark & gritty" Superman film. I don't want a Logan toned Superman film.
I have probably misused the term dark before when describing what I want.
I maintain Mos & Bvs are not such.
And there is a critical difference between making Clark himself dark & gritty and inserting Clark onto a realistic earth that will inevitably be dark & gritty at times to see how he interacts with such a world.

I just want a played completely straight & seriously handled Superman film with no outright silliness in regards to how they portray the sci-fi elements of his mythos, his powers & his visual design.
Handle it like JJ Abram's Trek handled it's style, with a sleek cool authenticity.

That is absolutely do-able while still being faithful to "who the character is".
Superman Tas for example was more serious then not most of the time and was rarely all that comedic besides Lois's banter, that is the balance I want.

I just want a played completely straight & seriously handled Superman film with no outright silliness in regards to how they portray the sci-fi elements of his mythos, his powers & his visual design.

That's what I was trying to say. But it looks like we're not getting that with Justice League or any of the future movies. For better or for worse.

Maybe they'll get around to making that Superman Red Son movie someday, that will give the audience that sort of Superman in that regard. Until then? I'll take what I can get. If being just like Marvel in every regard is what we NEED to move forward? Fine. At least this way we'll get movies about DC characters other than Batman.

Ray wrote:At least this way we'll get movies about DC characters other than Batman.

Absolutely, so excited for Aquaman, sad it's a whole year away with no other Dceu films inbetween.

I've got high hopes for Aquaman as well. And I have zero knowledge of the character outside of the obvious jokes - he talks to fish who have nothing interesting to say & James Cameron directed the original Vince Chase version. James Wan has grown into a fine commercial director. Both of the two The Conjuring movies are far better than they really should be. I'm curious to see what he'll do.

Gendo'sPapa wrote:I've got high hopes for Aquaman as well. And I have zero knowledge of the character

If interested I recommend you read Geoff Johns's new 52 run on him, the new 52 in general has it's problems but people pretty universally agree Aquaman was done right during it.
They address the jokes in a meta way in the 1st issue but thankfully don't dwell on it.
Gorgeous artwork by Ivan Reis.


Graphic novel list for it is...
Vol. 1: The Trench (#1-6)
Vol. 2: The Others (#7-13)
Vol. 3: Throne of Atlantis (#0 & 14-16 + Justice League #15-17)
After that Johns leaves and the book is still solid but not quite as great.

The dude wants out. You don't talk about a "cool way to segue out" unless you've already got one foot out the door:

https://www.moviefone.com/2017/11/13/ben-affleck-on-batman-exit-i-want-to-find-a-graceful-and-cool-segue/

I think the funniest thing about Zack Snyder is how every one has pointed out that in Justice League his amazon outfits have suddenly become over sexualized and its almost like he thinks that Amazons in modern day can deflect bullets with there ripped abs even though in the Woman woman movie it clearly showed that if they get shot through there tasteful yet still attractive hoplite armour with bullets they can die. Hence in modern day they would need more not less armour to deal with harder weapons. Just couldn't believe him and the studio could make such a rookie mistake as this kind of outfit reminds me of the 90's back when Xena was a hit tv show but it's not liked as much any more and is very open to backlash.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/justice-leagues-sexy-amazon-costumes-create-uproar/
https://www.out.com/popnography/2017/11/13/course-justice-league-tried-making-wonder-woman-amazon-outfits-sexy

The Amazonian bikini models are a truly awful idea that reeks of Zack Snyder, but with Joss Whedon also in the mix I'm waiting until I see all of the bare feet before finalizing my complaints.

The exposed belly outfits are from the flashbacks with Steppenwolf's first invasion back in ancient times.
You see in the trailer when he invades in modern day, they have their WW movie outfits. The pic of them with the Batmobile is just a BTS production still, they aren't actually going to interact with the league.
Look at the difference between the colonial & modern Kryptonian outfits and you will realize them making sure to differentiate between the different eras of these races has been a consistent aspect of these films.

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:The Amazonian bikini models are a truly awful idea that reeks of Zack Snyder

No it really doesn't when you consider the outfit makers on Man of Steel asked him should they try & sexualize Faora or try and lean towards practicality and he chose practicality.

Sucker Punch is the ONLY film of his that he made a point to sexy up his characters and with that film he was trying to go for a outlandish anime tribute vibe were such is completely appropriate.

Also reminder... the Spartans in 300 had more exposed then these new Amazons do.

movieartman wrote:You see in the trailer when he invades in modern day, they have their WW movie outfits.

See...

movieartman wrote:No it really doesn't when you consider the outfit makers on Man of Steel asked him should they try & sexualize Faora or try and lean towards practicality and he chose practicality.

I just said they were awful. I did not say that they were sexy. (Because they’re not.)

Also reminder... the Spartans in 300 had more exposed then these new Amazons do.

That’s partially how I knew it reeked of Snyder and not of Whedon.

The Spartans in 300 are from Miller’s designs which intentional evoke the heroic nude of Greek pottery designs.

I don’t feel like writing the essay so I’ll summarize: The same thing can have contextual meaning. Naked yelling Spartan warriors project power, half naked Amazon warriors are reduced to their sexiness.

Chuckman wrote:The Spartans in 300 are from Miller’s designs which intentional evoke the heroic nude of Greek pottery designs.

I don’t feel like writing the essay so I’ll summarize: The same thing can have contextual meaning. Naked yelling Spartan warriors project power, half naked Amazon warriors are reduced to their sexiness.

That's spot on and Xena Warrior Princess only got away with it because it had time to build it's characters through out the series and stared well clear of leering objectified shots and the amazon talking was always a human being not a sex object and that was made really clear in every episode but movies do not have time to do this kind of character deep building due to time limits hence it can become really problematic if you have no character built up behind the sexualized outfit.

A cool HD JL gif...


New JL Mera pic...

Chuckman wrote:Naked yelling Spartan warriors project power, half naked Amazon warriors are reduced to their sexiness.

That may have been true if they were thin super model types but the majority of them are fully jacked and therefor absolutely project power.
Maybe for you people it "reduces" them, that's your problem but for me it's a addition, its just adds one more thing to like about a character, I pity you guys on this matter.
Many of them flat out look more imposing to me with their abs exposed then covered. And bellys/abs aren't inherently sexual and most casual movie goers/normies aren't attracted to muscular women regardless.