[Film] The Trailers & Upcoming Films Thread

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Re: [Film] The Trailers & Upcoming Films Thread

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Postby Chuckman » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:06 pm

I’m going to ignore the bit about legal equality, as I don’t want to turn political.

Yes, there is no problem with sexuality, with appreciating the female form, or with sexualixing women when it is appropriate. If I didn’t believe that I wouldn’t have a house full of statues of naked women and I wouldn’t have attended a literal porn convention this weekend and I wouldn’t be a former writer of pornography.

The issue is not sexuality it’s healthy vs unhealthy sexuality. A movie of Sonja displaying herself erotically would be terrible for a variety of reasons. One, it would reduce her from a character to an object of display, which makes for a bad movie. If I want porn I’ll go watch porn. I can even get plenty of Red Sonja porn if that’s what I want. Two, the twenty first century superhero film wave hasn’t handled women very well. The best examples I can think of are Diana and Gwen Stacy from Webb’s Spider-Films, and they had to crap all over a great revision of be character and a great role for her because Gwen is perpetually doomed to die because it happened once in a comic forty years ago.

The problem with the others is that they’re there as set dressing, plot points, and eye candy. They’re either sidekicks or getting captured or infected with an Infiniti stone or defining another character’s trauma or tragedy.

I’d rather have a movie with Sonja in full armor where she’s a developed character and is interesting and attractive as a person, over a cheesy t&a-fest.

As to your final comment, this isn’t about shaming men. It’s about men no longer having ownership over the sexuality of women and women characters in fiction. If Red Sonja is made as a eye candy show for the male audience it will be an embarrassment, and probably a flop.

How is she supposed to be taken seriously as a character if she’s emoting or reliving her grim past and the audience can’t get past “why aren’t her nipples chafing?”

Men being sent messages about how they look at women doesn’t override actual women’s opinions about how women are presented. It’s not shaming you for looking at women sexually. If there’s any shaming going on it’s for approaching it as:

“There’s a Red Sonja movie coming, I hope she’s in the bikini!”

That would be kind of like,

“There a Namor movie coming! I hope that green speedo is really up his crack!”

Or

“The next Batman will have Robin in it! I hope he’s in the green undies and elf shoes!”

We live in an age of hardcore porn at an instants notice on our computers or phones. Barbarella sexy costume crap is obsolete.

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Re: [Film] The Trailers & Upcoming Films Thread

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Postby movieartman » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:59 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Yes, there is no problem with sexuality, with appreciating the female form, or with sexualixing women when it is appropriate. If I didn’t believe that I wouldn’t have a house full of statues of naked women and I wouldn’t have attended a literal porn convention this weekend and I wouldn’t be a former writer of pornography.

Fair enough on that.

One, it would reduce her from a character to an object of display

Here is our critical point of disagreement, I strongly deny that it reduces them in anyway.
If a female character is well written, then she is well written... period.
Take Ripley in Aliens, say Weaver had larger breast then she does and they gave her cleavage through out most of the film (not saying that this would be preferable, just giving a example)
Absolutely nothing would change beyond her being just a little more enjoyable to see visually.
She would still be just as badass, just as motherly, just as inspiring as she is in the product we got.

I’d rather have a movie with Sonja in full armor where she’s a developed character and is interesting and attractive as a person, over a cheesy t&a-fest.

Problem is your assuming that if it's a t&a fest then there will be a absence of good characterization, and I don't think that is fair and I don't believe it's one or the other, they can do both simultaneously.

It’s about men no longer having ownership over the sexuality of women and women characters in fiction.

Sex appeal exist to please whoever it appeals too/who is attracted to it.
This crap about ownership is beyond my understanding. So you think women should hold their sex appeal hostage & out of entertainment unless we do what???

If Red Sonja is made as a eye candy show for the male audience it will be an embarrassment, and probably a flop.

Why? What would be wrong/unfair if female audiences get Wonder Woman being "safe" for them and men get a Red Sonja movie pandering to them.
Fairness & Balance.
2 groups getting what they want from 2 separate different target audience having products is the definition of equality.
How is this different then...
- Horror movies exist for horror fans.
- Comedies exist for comedy fans.

View Original PostChuckman wrote:How is she supposed to be taken seriously as a character if she’s emoting or reliving her grim past and the audience can’t get past “why aren’t her nipples chafing?”

If her acting is good & intense enough, I assure you people won't be thinking about such trivial things.
Hence why people took Maeve in Westworld seriously & praised Newton's acting even while she spent many episodes fully naked.

“There’s a Red Sonja movie coming, I hope she’s in the bikini!”
That would be kind of like,
“There a Namor movie coming! I hope that green speedo is really up his crack!”
“The next Batman will have Robin in it! I hope he’s in the green undies and elf shoes!”

The Robin comparison is invalid as both Sonja & Namor have been intended from the beginning to be outright sexually appealing, Robin has never been so (up until very recently with Dick Grayson specifically being kind of a meme sex symbol)
And I am perfectly fine with Namor or others on film being beefcakey for the female audience, we got plenty of that with Chris Pine in WW.

View Original PostChuckman wrote:If I want porn I’ll go watch porn
We live in an age of hardcore porn at an instants notice on our computers or phones. Barbarella sexy costume crap is obsolete.

Your missing the point, we want characters we are emotionally invested and get to see being ultra badass being sexualized not no-name character-less interchangeable babes.

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Re: [Film] The Trailers & Upcoming Films Thread

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Postby pwhodges » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:09 pm

View Original Postmovieartman wrote:If her acting is good & intense enough, I assure you people won't be thinking about such trivial things.

Then why put the nipples in at all?
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Postby Guy Nacks » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:16 pm

I'd just like to add that as a person who's about a 1 on the Kinsey scale, there needs to be more male full frontal in film.

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Postby Chuckman » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:29 pm

They’ve already ignored so many excuses for Thor to be naked.

It’s so warm here! The Odinson needs no clothes!

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Postby silvermoonlight » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:12 am

View Original PostRay wrote:https://deadline.com/2017/11/millennium-to-remake-female-strong-red-sonja-cinelou-1202201372/

RED SONJA movie in production.

There aint no way they're going to have Red Sonja actually wear the chain mail bikini though. I mean, not even Marvel with all the audience goodwill in the world thought they could have Ms./Captain Marvel in the lightning bolt leotard or Jessica Jones in the Skintight Jewel outfit.


I'm extremely curious to see how this pans out as I was never a fan of the 1985 movie as I didn't like the plot line changes from the comic or the insert of Queen Gedren as the typical evil lesbain villain and I always felt they missed the point about how rape victims suffer. I hope the new movie has the guts to go there and show the after effects in a serious way. I do feel that the outfit will need a resign and I hope they really take note of what was done in wonder woman as I feel that to many sleazy objectification camera shots could really hurt this movie if done poorly. That's not to say you can't have sexual shots I would just prefer that they were done tasteful and keep the focus on Sonya as a person.
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Re: [Film] The Trailers & Upcoming Films Thread

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Postby movieartman » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:26 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:They’ve already ignored so many excuses for Thor to be naked.

It’s so warm here! The Odinson needs no clothes!

If it's any consolation, I heard the Hulk shows his ass in Ragnarok.
:tongue:

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:and I always felt they missed the point about how rape victims suffer. I hope the new movie has the guts to go there and show the after effects in a serious way.

Very little chance of that.
They have gone FAR out of their way in recent years to distance the character from that origin & the whole "she only beds those who can beat her in battle thing" as is made crystal clear here...
SPOILER: Show
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:52 am

And with that, Steven Spielberg comes in with the trailer for The Post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrXlY6gzTTM&t=5s

In other film news: Kevin Spacey is down. In a surprising turn of events, Ridley Scott is getting the whole gang back together to reshoot Kevin Spacey's scenes from All The Money in the World with Christopher Plummer recast in the role. Apparently his role is small enough - Spacey only shot 8 to 10 days on the film & the story is carried by Michelle Williams character - that they plan to reshoot his scenes over two weeks & still release the movie wide on December 22. Whether this comes through will be interesting to see but Ridley Scott is boss.

http://deadline.com/2017/11/kevin-spacey-dropped-all-in-the-money-in-the-world-christopher-plummer-ridley-scott-j-paul-getty-1202204437/

Only other two Kevin Spacey projects left to be released are two finished films - Billionaire Boys Club & Gore. His role in Boys Club is by all accounts very small - practically a cameo - so expect that to be reshot. The Gore Vidal biopic has already been dropped by Netflix and most likely will be a miniscule VOD release at some point in 2018. Spacey is done.

Good.

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Postby Joseki » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:21 am

They are going to reshoot All The Money in the World because they want to arrive clean to the Oscars, it has nothing to do with ethics. :rolleyes:
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Postby silvermoonlight » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:38 am

View Original PostJoseki wrote:They are going to reshoot All The Money in the World because they want to arrive clean to the Oscars, it has nothing to do with ethics. :rolleyes:


Good luck with them arriving clean at the next Oscars because no one will believe them until real arrests are made regarding all of the issues going around right now. In my view there wading through sewage and it just keeps rising everyday and even if they do clean up I see them stinking of this foul smell for years to come as I don't think people will just forgive and forget this that easily.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:13 am

Never doubt my man, Ridley Scott.

All The Money in the World Trailer (Now 100% Kevin Spacey-less):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXHrCBkIxQQ

It's also easy to sit online and be snarky about how "they're doing it all for the Oscars" & not engage with the greater discussion. A movie is a collaborative process and no one wants to see their work undone by the actions of one person. Hundreds of people who worked on the film were about to have their jobs overlooked because of one man who was hired by the studio. Instead of accepting the situation Scott just actually went ahead and did something about it. Instead of everyone's work being "THAT Kevin Spacey Movie" he made it something more positive. Erasing Kevin Spacey from an almost finished movie, replacing with him a different actor AND keeping the release date is a flashing sign that people in the entertainment industry who do awful things CAN be removed from their projects.
Ridley Scott got dealt a bad hand - the studio wanted Spacey cause they wanted "a star" & then the timing of the revelations couldn't have been worse - and the easier thing would have been to either shelve the movie (everyone had already been paid) OR do a bunch of PR about "art vs. the artist" but instead he actually went ahead and took care of the issue.* More so when people see All The Money in the World they'll be made aware that Kevin Spacey has been punished and is no longer a part of the film. (Now the justice system needs to do their part)
It's easy to be snarky but that's a damn impressive feat Scott pulled off.

Scott's interview with EW is pretty great.
http://ew.com/movies/2017/11/29/ridley-scott-kevin-spacey-all-the-money-in-the-world-exclusive/
Especially these moments:

Where were you when you first heard about the allegations against Kevin Spacey?
RIDLEY SCOTT: I was finished with the film and was in [U.K. recording studio] Abbey Road finalizing the music. Someone was like: Guess what? And that’s where it began. I sat and thought about it and realized, we cannot. You can’t tolerate any kind of behavior like that. And it will affect the film. We cannot let one person’s action affect the good work of all these other people. It’s that simple.

Did you have to call Kevin Spacey and tell him?
No. And he didn’t call me. If he had called me and said, “Hey, look, this is the way it is and I’m really sorry,” then I’d have handled it slightly differently.

If he had called and said all that, do you think you’d still have replaced him?
Yes. I’d have still done it. I would have said, “Yes, thank you for calling, but I have to move on.”


*In a comparison of how NOT to handle a actor with a troubled public history in your film, look no further than Warner Brothers who has made Johnny Depp's character the title role in their Fantastic Beasts sequel & for the moment seem intent on keeping him on the payroll for 4 more movies. It's especially egregious when Depp was just a cameo in the original because another actor was able to play the part for the majority of the film it exists in a world capable of magical shape shifting. It would be very easy to replace Depp in that universe. Instead Warner Brothers seems intent to stick to their guns to rekindle Depp's career because they know the Potter fanbase is probably gonna pay to see the movies anyways.

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Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:09 am

Good on Ridley Scott. Spacey's casting, allegations aside, was dumb anyway and the makeup looked stupid. Much better to actually cast someone in the appropriate age range. Plummer's a legendary actor in his own right, so the film will no doubt be better off for it.


I would be remiss in any conversation about Ridley Scott if I didn't bring up this glorious moment from a recent IGN interview that was referenced by RedLetterMedia during their discussion of Blade Runner.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Postby Ray » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:00 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b_f7hqXMTo

From the man who messed up Blade III, the Dark Knight Rises, and caused pretty much every problem the DCEU is having right now.

He-Man. Directed by David S Goyer.
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Postby Chuckman » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:15 pm

I will say the same thing about He-Man I keep saying about Transformers.

If the movie isn't absurd it would be an insult to the source material.

The more recent He-Man revival series was pretty good but the original He-Man cartoon is aggressively terrible on a level that makes Generation One transformers look like Shakespeare.

And, I mean, there already is a He-Man movie and, other than Frank Langella's performance of his career, it sets a pretty low bar, all things considered.

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Postby robersora » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:40 pm

I really wonder how people can still look at superhero comic adaptions and not immediately lose all interest.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:01 am

View Original Postmovieartman wrote:I genuinely am not trying to make a personal attack but acting like male sexual attraction to the female form is somehow how morally or ethically wrong is bloody evil, misandristic & gives legitimacy to the idiots screaming about feminazis.
This is why modern "feminism" needs to go the fuck away.
Women want equal rights under the law, absolutely 100% agree, give it to them now that should be the case regardless if feminism as a movement exist.

Someone thinks that Male Gaze is thought by feminists to be inherently bad or refers only to sexuality. None of those things are true.

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Postby silvermoonlight » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:25 am

View Original PostRay wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b_f7hqXMTo

From the man who messed up Blade III, the Dark Knight Rises, and caused pretty much every problem the DCEU is having right now.

He-Man. Directed by David S Goyer.


I will say Blade 3's issues from what I've heard had a lot to do with Wesley snipe being an utter arse on set and some have stated that he was high on drugs and didn't want to do his lines hence they got passed over to the other characters and he made it difficult for the director. I have not seen the dark knight rises so I can't comment on that, all I want is for it to be better than the previous one as the whole thing with He Man going to our world sucked in my view. Oh yeah and I want the Cringer/Battle Cat in this new movie they have CGI now and puppet hybridization (Where you use a puppet then overlay CGI in places) so there's no excuse for leaving him out.
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