What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby Reichu » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:49 am

I guess the point I inadvertently made is that I should have double-checked what my memory was telling me before asking you to waste your time.

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Postby dexissex111 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:42 am

I didn't like how much of a bitch Asuka was yea you had a tragic backstory but it did get a bit too much at times

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:25 pm

Hmmm.
The masturbation scene and the corresponding dialogue at the end of the movie.

A. For the scene itself:

Simply put, it distracts from the story and the narrative themes was going for. I get they wanted to have Shinji do something terrible to Asuka, but that was already handled with him strangling her. Or him perceiving he's hurt her by failing to save her.

Not to mention there's better ways to "hurt someone" like...

1. Physically trying to force Asuka awake by strangling her(which would have also been a fantastic parallel for the ending)

2. Violently shaking her awake

The act of masturbation while totally messed up and sh!t, only hurts her because she ends up melding with Shinji's mind. If the point is "love is destructive", shouldn't that hold true regardless of whether external forces are causing Asuka and Shinji to mind meld?

It also seems out of place as perversion was never a developed part of Shinji's character. The story being told otherwise never makes any mention of this. If you want perversion to be part of Shinji's internal struggles, then you should probably touch upon this somewhere through the duration of the series first.


But honestly, while it seems out of place to me, it's not like it affects the rest of the story in any real way.

b. My main issue is the ending dialogue, "how disgusting" or "I feel sick":

The first problem is that when you are watching the movie, unless you happen to hear Asuka's voice actor explain what it was referring to, you'd think it was referring to Shinji crying, instrumentality in general, or just some characteristic snark to endear the viewer. The masturbation scene has already been followed up by Asuka during instrumentality. How's the viewer supposed to know it's specifically in reference to Shinji's masturbation?

The second problem, it detracts from the ending. You're brining up a scene that happened several scenes ago, and already was followed up and reflected on several scenes ago. This line doesn't belong in the ending and distorts and confuses whatever. You don't need to tell us they've hurt each other, you've just dedicated a significant amount of screen time specifically highlighting that during instrumentality. We just saw Asuka kick Shinji down, Shinji choke Asuka, him do it again, and then Shinji cry like a baby. We see them hurt each other multiple times, there's no need to tell us that again.

Sometimes less is more, and frankly I think just letting the movie end without dialogue would have been more powerful than adding some complication you've already gone in length about.
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Postby RamielBestGirl » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:02 pm

Too much unnecessary, cringey sexual humor in the first half of the series. The entire opening of episode 7 was pretty bad. Having some sexual themes works for developing Shinji but a fair amount of the time it was just needless "comedy". I think this is my only real complaint about the series as of right now, really, though I still need to reconcile some stuff about EoE. But that'll probably take me years to do.

I also really fucking hated Kensuke but that's objectively irrational and not a flaw of the series. Dude just annoyed me.

And I wish Toji had died at the end of episode 18 for maximum impact, or at least had fallen into a state of catatonia from the sheer trauma of what happened to him. For a 14-year-old guy who dealt with the feeling of having his entire head smashed and his body torn open for something he hated to begin with, he recovered too quickly.

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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby Guy Nacks » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:30 pm

View Original PostRamielBestGirl wrote:And I wish Toji had died at the end of episode 18 for maximum impact, or at least had fallen into a state of catatonia from the sheer trauma of what happened to him. For a 14-year-old guy who dealt with the feeling of having his entire head smashed and his body torn open for something he hated to begin with, he recovered too quickly.


To be fair to Anno, though, he was forbidden from killing any of the children in the series by King Records.

Here's the key excerpt from Schizo/Parano, which was published in '97:
Anno: No, um, I made a certain promise, though I think now I should have broken it. At the very beginning, when [we] drew up the plan [for Eva], [I met] with the producer, from King Records, who told me, "I will approve the plan you submit, whatever it is, because I have faith in you. However, there will be two conditions. The first one is that you will remain with me for five years. You cannot, for example, do a film version with another [producer]. The additional condition is that you will not kill any children. The adults can die, but I don't want children dying." Because of that condition I couldn't kill [Toji].


Sadamoto corrected this in the manga version, though.
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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby RamielBestGirl » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:02 am

Yeah, I did hear about that (though hadn't heard the quote directly, thanks for sharing it) so I just kinda internally pretend he did die.

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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby silvermoonlight » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:52 am

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:Hmmm.
The masturbation scene and the corresponding dialogue at the end of the movie.

A. For the scene itself:

Simply put, it distracts from the story and the narrative themes was going for. I get they wanted to have Shinji do something terrible to Asuka, but that was already handled with him strangling her. Or him perceiving he's hurt her by failing to save her.

Not to mention there's better ways to "hurt someone" like...

1. Physically trying to force Asuka awake by strangling her(which would have also been a fantastic parallel for the ending)

2. Violently shaking her awake

The act of masturbation while totally messed up and sh!t, only hurts her because she ends up melding with Shinji's mind. If the point is "love is destructive", shouldn't that hold true regardless of whether external forces are causing Asuka and Shinji to mind meld?

It also seems out of place as perversion was never a developed part of Shinji's character. The story being told otherwise never makes any mention of this. If you want perversion to be part of Shinji's internal struggles, then you should probably touch upon this somewhere through the duration of the series first.


I agree with this as there are other ways to hurt people that don't involve sexual acts and in the manga he does try to shake her awake and no sexual acts are involved and its just as traumatic and I won't spoil as you may not have read it yet. Also Shinji's act has a knock on effect because you loose faith in him with in the first few minutes because he's no longer the struggling mentality troubled hero but has crossed a line that villains normally cross in to. They could have still kept this masturbation scene but instead moved it to a bathroom out side Asuka's hosbital room where you might still hear him but not see what he's doing as he's ashamed off it as it still has the same impact but sedated Asuka is not hurt in the process.
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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby Geometer » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:46 am

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:b. My main issue is the ending dialogue, "how disgusting" or "I feel sick":

The first problem is that when you are watching the movie, unless you happen to hear Asuka's voice actor explain what it was referring to, you'd think it was referring to Shinji crying, instrumentality in general, or just some characteristic snark to endear the viewer. The masturbation scene has already been followed up by Asuka during instrumentality. How's the viewer supposed to know it's specifically in reference to Shinji's masturbation?

The second problem, it detracts from the ending. You're brining up a scene that happened several scenes ago, and already was followed up and reflected on several scenes ago. This line doesn't belong in the ending and distorts and confuses whatever. You don't need to tell us they've hurt each other, you've just dedicated a significant amount of screen time specifically highlighting that during instrumentality. We just saw Asuka kick Shinji down, Shinji choke Asuka, him do it again, and then Shinji cry like a baby. We see them hurt each other multiple times, there's no need to tell us that again.

Sometimes less is more, and frankly I think just letting the movie end without dialogue would have been more powerful than adding some complication you've already gone in length about.


Pretty much very similar to the thoughts I have. EoE is obviously a very "dark" or at least bittersweet movie with extra bitter. We see Shinjij fuck up on a colossal scale and then after much suffering he finally makes a step in the right direction. Showing some hope after all the brutal violence, psychological trauma, and alien imagery that covered most of the movie. But then after this we get beach scene which in of itself is a another mix of mostly grim imagery with a bit of hope (Asuka's caress of Shinji), but the very last line of the movie is a nasty one no matter how you look at it. I mean sure its realistic thing for her to say but its like the movie is saying "there is hope but not really". Which I suppose you can say is the message of the film but the scenes prior where so much more optimistic it doesn't match

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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:06 pm

View Original PostGeometer wrote: I mean sure its realistic thing for her to say but its like the movie is saying "there is hope but not really". Which I suppose you can say is the message of the film but the scenes prior where so much more optimistic it doesn't match

IIRC, the voice actor or Anno explained the intent was to connect back to the masturbation scene and to have Asuka's reaction regarding it.

It's worth noting it can also be translated to "I feel sick"
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Postby Geometer » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:06 am

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:IIRC, the voice actor or Anno explained the intent was to connect back to the masturbation scene and to have Asuka's reaction regarding it.

It's worth noting it can also be translated to "I feel sick"

To me the most important evidence is always in the actual work, and Asuka gives Shinji a look of contempt, similar to kitchen scene, as she says this so it doesn't give a positive vib for me

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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:54 pm

View Original PostGeometer wrote:To me the most important evidence is always in the actual work, and Asuka gives Shinji a look of contempt, similar to kitchen scene, as she says this so it doesn't give a positive vib for me

The actual work is not the same as an interpretation of the actual work.

Regardless, it'snot supposed to give a positive vibe, more a reminder that there's still real issues, I just don't think that reminder was necessary.
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Postby AdamMalkovitch » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:50 am

I think my biggest problem with Neon Genesis is how slowly it starts after Ep2. The first two episodes are absolutely fantastic, and some of my favorites in the series, but after Sachiel's defeat, and especially after Asuka's introduction the series becomes much more light-hearted until about episode 16. I totally get why this was done, Anno wanted to draw in the weebs and then call them out later in the series, but rewatching the series is always hard to do in the beginning. I'll usually just skim over episodes 7-14 to get to the more horror aspects of the series.

I have way, WAY more issues with New Theatrical, however. It's hard to tell exactly what's going on in the action sequences sometimes because they're TOO flashy and over the top. I only just recently noticed that during Unit 02's debut fight in Break, that after the Angel transforms and Unit 02 fires a bunch of spikes at it, Asuka then USES THE TOP SPIKE to break through a perfectly balanced tower of spikes, rip through the AT field AND the Angel, and destroy it's core. Mari in general. The final volume of the Neon Genesis manga was released well after Prelude, and has a bonus chapter where Mari appears, 16 years old and attending a college with Yui and Gendo. She's revealed to have a sort of Asuka-Shinji type relationship with Yui; Mari hates her because of how much better she perceives Yui to be than her, but also loves her. After an exchange where Mari steals Yui's glasses out of jealousy, the two talk and come to understand each other, while Yui fixes Mari's hair, changing her character design to that seen in the New Theatrical films, shortly before Mari is transferred to another college. It seems like there was so much more planned for Mari's character in New Theatrical, but was left out and scrapped like so much we've seen before in Neon Genesis. She goes from a jealous character with a personality that seems like a combination of Shinji and Asuka's personalities, to a lifeless husk who lives only to kill Angels.

My biggest issue with New Theatrical, is that it goes against everything Neon Genesis was about. Of course, not to the level of Angelic Days or Shinji Ikari Raising Project, but the fact that Neon Genesis seems to have been tossed aside by Khara in favor of this shell is downright insulting. It tries so hard to be like other modern anime, whereas Neon Genesis threw that out the window, and essentially redefined the entirety of Japanese pop culture. Characters are shadows of their former selves, everything feels so fake. The only way this can be redeemed is if 1.0+3.0 calls the previous three films out and acts as a sort of End of Evangelion film to New Theatrical.
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Postby pwhodges » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:57 pm

The merits and demerits of NTE are already discussed at great length in the section of the forum dedicated to it. Opinions are sharply divided between those who would agree with you and those who attempt to judge it as an item in its own right rather than simply to be compared with NGE.
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Postby StrokeMeGoat » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:46 pm

View Original Postdexissex111 wrote:I didn't like how much of a bitch Asuka was yea you had a tragic backstory but it did get a bit too much at times

While I can agree, especially thinking the exact same ting about Risuko, NGE wouldn't be NGE if the various major personality and psychological issues and dysfunctionality with living of at least one of the characters didn't annoy or even repulse you. The two most frequently being Asuka and her proclivity to be a bitch or Shinji just being an utterly whiny pathetic little pussy.

The funny thing about that is, even though all of the character's flaws are quite abstractly and even at times, directly connected or related to one another in nature, Asuka and Shinji being the same as the only one to be explicitly recognized or stated to be that way during the beginning of HIP in EOE. The point I was originally going to make at the beginning of my post about how Asuka's reaction to her personal traumas being the one that bothers/annoys/upsets/disgusts you probably says something quite interesting about yourself and your perception of yourself that you perhaps aren't yet consciously aware of.

Remember that Shinji's proclamation that she and him are the same during HIP is a response to her exclaiming that he makes her sick and that she can't stand even the site of him... all because they are in fact the same. Any time I get rather intense negative emotional reactions to others or characters in shows, the first thing I do is acknowledge that the fact I dislike them and the specific qualities about them that drive me nuts is that I hate those very same qualities in myself or how I already am.

I used to really hate Ritsuko for some time and believed I'd never find a way to like her on any level or even respect her as a person at all, but after viewing and analyzing my emotional reactions to others and the things they do the way I outlined, I came to accept her as a person worthy of the same respect any other human deserves and even note some redeeming qualities of hers.

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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby Kisses4Katie » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:41 am

Haha, I can't think of anything to change- but I do wish it was easier to share with people! My family has never understood Eva (or really anime..) but even the husband, who I watch anime with, can't follow more than a fight scene without an hour long discussion from me.

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Postby Blockio » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:20 pm

Only two things really:
First, Asuka's introduction in NGE was somewhat poorly executed. I get it, budget and everythng, but for supposedly being native Germen, her German is really basic and her pronounciation is horrible to be honest to the point where I could barely make out what she was trying to say, even with subtitles on

And second, aside from Unit 00, 01 and 02 (and 08 in NTE), basically all Evas are completely exchangeable plot devices with the dedicated goal of dying more or less spectacularily, instead of actually serving a purpose.
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Postby kuribo-04 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:00 pm

That it ended.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby imprimatur13 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:06 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:Only two things really:
First, Asuka's introduction in NGE was somewhat poorly executed. I get it, budget and everythng, but for supposedly being native Germen, her German is really basic and her pronounciation is horrible to be honest to the point where I could barely make out what she was trying to say, even with subtitles on

Well, I always found Miyamura's German hilarious... ^_^
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Re: What You Did NOT Like About Evangelion

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Postby Julius » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:34 am

I dislike the fact that no character is an hero, but then again, you could say the same thing about every modern anime.

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Postby kuribo-04 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:52 am

And about most real life people.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
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