Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby Ray » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:00 pm

Disney find something that works and they exploit it and milk it for all it's worth until they can't be milked anymore.

See what they did when they made all of their hand drawn movies musicals about princesses in the 90s.
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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby movieartman » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:55 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:Disney find something that works and they exploit it and milk it for all it's worth until they can't be milked anymore.

See what they did when they made all of their hand drawn movies musicals about princesses in the 90s.

I just don't get WHY they would make this choice.
They let Rogue One be dark & tragic & it did well critically not far off from Doctor Strange on Rotton Tomatoes.

And there just seems like there is this revisionism of history going on with the Thor movies reception, I distinctly recall it being universally agreed that the earth bound humor was the worst parts of Thor 1 & 2 and yet now I see tons of people saying they were too serious. Like what the hell man.

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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby El Squibbonator » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:50 pm

Yeah, I'm a bit wary of it too. Probably gonna watch it anyway though. Good Marvel comedy: Guardians of the Galaxy 1 and 2, original Thor, Spider-Man Homecoming, Deadpool (yes, I know it's not MCU).
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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby Chuckman » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:59 pm

Rogue One is neither dark nor a tragedy. Dying a heroic death to deal a massive blow to the Empire is bittersweet but not tragic.

A tragedy would be if Jyn Erso had a fatal flaw (arrogance, greed, etc.) that led to her failing her mission and the Empire wiping out the rebels during the attack, for example.

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Postby Ray » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:10 pm

All of the main characters
SPOILER: Show
Die.


Not to mention Disney reshot a good part of it to make it less dark.

Like I said, Disney finds something that works and they exploit it until it can't be exploited anymore. They did it with their live action films in the 50's and 60's, they did it to their hand drawn films in the 90's, they did it with the Pirates movies in the 00's, and make no mistake they're going to do it to Star Wars and Marvel. The difference is that Marvel and Star Wars have INTENSELY loyal fans that will stick by the product do or die. So it's likely gonna be a much longer time until the bubble pops for them like it did for the aforementioned things. Assuming it ever does.
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Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby Chuckman » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:57 pm

All of the characters

SPOILER: Show
Make a heroic sacrifice that allows a crippling blow to the Empire and ultimately leads to the redemption of Darth Vader and the death of the Emperor. That is not tragic in any way.


I don't really see it as dark, either. The theme of the movie is hope.

Honestly I'm never exactly sure how you define a movie or story as dark or not.

Edit: I'm also baffled as to why you're so emotionally invested in these movies being a particular way or not being made or being made or anything else. If you think Marvel's house style is uninteresting don't see them. If you don't like the direction Disney is taking Star Wars, don't see them. I mean, let's face it: There's been eight Star Wars films, dozens of novels, multiple cartoons, and all sorts of assorted media from coloring books to happy meals, and to be blunt, maybe 20% of it, at most, is better than hot garbage.

Of course, as I always say, enjoyment of a film/book/anything but a video game really (since video games are an activity in themselves and if the activity is shit the game is too) is as much what you bring to it as what the cast/crew/director did.

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Postby Ray » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:55 pm

Look. I like Guardians of the Galaxy. Do I want EVERY Marvel movie to imitate Guardians? No! A Thor movie should be a THOR movie! Not a Monty Python self-parody of itself that only exists because the ONE time they tried to make the character semi-serious (Dark World) it underperformed.

A Thor movie should be a fantasy movie. Like Lord Of The Rings or Narnia. Lighthearted moments, but overall a serious tone given the character are literally gods.

My worry is that Marvel is seeing the success of Guardians, seeing it become the smash hit it and it's sequel did. Are going to say "how can we make the rest of our movies make the same kind of money GOTG is"? and then proceed to make EVERY movie in their stable after Infinity War like Guardians in response even if it *doesn't make sense* with the character.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:30 pm

^ Then don’t watch it. Watch a truly dark and serious movie, like Blade Runner 2049. Or Enter the Void.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:42 pm

Not shocked they went this way. After appearances in four movies Marvel noticed that the general public favors Thor when he was being sarcastic & funny as opposed to when he was being brooding & serious, a big part of that being due to Chris Hemsworth's knack for comedy, so they tailored Thor 3 to that. It looks like it will work cause it's the first time the general public seems actually excited for a Thor movie & not just duty bound by the MCU.

I have hopes for Thor 3 because Taika Waititi is super talented & a strong character driven filmmaker. There's no reason What We Do in the Shadows should work but it works like gangbusters because he has a perfect grasp on character & knew how to milk the most out of his non-budget & Hunt for the Wilderpeople is a delight! I've heard good things about Thor 3, friends I trust who have seen it say it's a superior film to Spider-man: Homecoming which is two hours of nothing. Though apparently Thor 3 suffers from the same problem all Marvel movies have IMO - any & all character the filmmaking team brings to the film is gone by the third act which is just more bland CG punchy punch moments.

Either way, Black Panther sure doesn't look like it's trying to be Guardians 3.

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Postby movieartman » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:26 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Rogue One is neither dark nor a tragedy. Dying a heroic death to deal a massive blow to the Empire is bittersweet but not tragic

Your right bittersweet, is the word I should have used. Another comparison I would make would be the end of Eva 2.22 Is akin to what I was hoping the end of this film would be.
I you haven't, read Thor - Disassembled and you will get a idea of what I was hoping for with this film, no not the semi edgy parts like Volstagg being skinny from a lack of food, but the ending with...
SPOILER: Show
Thor killing himself to gain greater wisdom (odin did it centuries before) & after gaining it letting the Asgardians die in a final honorable battle in order to break the cycle of Ragnarok & rebirth that "those who sit above in shadow" feed off of like glorified parasites.
Image
Image
Image


View Original PostChuckman wrote:Edit: I'm also baffled as to why you're so emotionally invested in these movies being a particular way

I am not, I am pretty much 90% content with everything Marvel has done before now.
I am emotionally invested in this particular film as Thor is my favorite character (2nd only to cap possibly) and I feel this will be Marvel's biggest missed opportunity for emotional weight.

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Either way, Black Panther sure doesn't look like it's trying to be Guardians 3.

Indeed, part of why it & Aquaman are my most anticipated superhero films with ease.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:36 pm

My vote for most anticipated 2018 superhero film sight unseen is probably The Incredibles 2. Black Panther is a close second, it's one of the few Marvel movies I'm actually excited though. Plus, I am genuinely interested in seeing if The New Mutants will be a genuine horror film or is just using the genre for window dressing like Marvel has before. The rest I'm indifferent on until they give me a reason to care.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:42 pm

The Incredibles 2 is the only superhero movie that has the potential to genuinely surprise me, as opposed to Marvel, who has a reputation of predictably appeasing me. We'll see.

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Postby movieartman » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:27 am

Venom started filming.
I was genuinly intrigued until I just saw...
From the writers of The Dark Tower, Amazing Spider-Man 2, The 5th Wave, and 50 Shades of Grey
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Postby silvermoonlight » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:17 am

View Original Postmovieartman wrote:Venom started filming.
I was genuinly intrigued until I just saw...
From the writers of The Dark Tower, Amazing Spider-Man 2, The 5th Wave, and 50 Shades of Grey
:unsure: :deskbang:


Oh man and here I was hoping a venom movie that had a real dark horror type feel where they show his character for what it is a violent, smart, apex predator who is not above eating people alive...but that's not gonna happen now :facepalm:
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Postby Chuckman » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:59 pm

I was hoping they'd make a horror comedy* about a violent lunatic who is trying his best to be a superhero but welp

*In a style distinct from Deadpool's self aware irony

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Postby silvermoonlight » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:18 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:I was hoping they'd make a horror comedy* about a violent lunatic who is trying his best to be a superhero but welp

*In a style distinct from Deadpool's self aware irony


Never thought about that but now that you mention it a black comedy would be a brilliant spin on Venom even more so if they could make it as self aware as the classic Gremlins movie was as it knew how to take the piss out of itself and joke around while still yanking on the horror chain when the moment was right.
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Postby Ray » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:01 pm

The problem with this movie is that Venom only makes sense within the context of an already established Spider-Man universe. Without that added context you just can't make a movie with him work. Hating Spider-Man and wanting to kill him for humiliating him is his sole motivation. You take that away there's just nothing for the reader to latch onto. Many people have tried (and most of them failed) to do something else with Venom apart from that.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Postby Chuckman » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:09 pm

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:Never thought about that but now that you mention it a black comedy would be a brilliant spin on Venom even more so if they could make it as self aware as the classic Gremlins movie was as it knew how to take the piss out of itself and joke around while still yanking on the horror chain when the moment was right.


The Gremlins feel is pretty much what I had in mind.

The character has a lot of that in his history. His solo comics -before they tried to make the Symbiote the thing, get rid of Eddie etc- tended to swing back and forth between Eddie-Venom as a tortured outcast and a violent lunatic trying to be a superhero but scaring the shit out of people with claws and teeth. There are some genuinely hilarious moments and before the character got played out and they went full 90's by introducing Carnage he was legitimately interesting- a vicious monster with a twisted sense of honor, even when dealing with Spider-Man.

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Postby movieartman » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:28 pm

WB/DC talking to Gareth Evans (the raid 1 & 2) for the Deathstroke movie.
:w00t:

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Postby Ray » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:33 pm

Assuming they don't butcher it in post like they did for Squad and JL. :irked:
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman


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