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Re: Star Trek

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Postby Bagheera » Fri May 19, 2017 10:11 am

I have no issue with the uniforms, since they look like actual military uniforms. I appreciated Enterprise for giving the crew uniforms that seemed halfway plausible, just as I appreciated the TOS movies which likewise at least gave lip service to something resembling a dress uniform. But the fact is that Starfleet seems to change up their uniforms ever few years, so this is no biggie.

Press releases have explicitly stated that this show is set in the prime timeline, so there's no point speculating about that.

As for the rest, we'll have to wait and see. It at least looks good so far, and I like what I've seen of the cast. Not much to work with beyond that.
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Postby jcmoorehead » Fri May 19, 2017 10:22 am

View Original Postcyharding wrote:Other than what we see in Generations, I thought there wasn't anymore said about B. Am I mistaken here.


There wasn't it pretty much launched and got blown up, that's why I think it'd be interesting to see how things might have panned out differently for it in the alternate timeline. Didn't really mean too much more than that really, just be interesting to see if maybe there was a knock on effect on the other Enterprise variants.

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Postby silvermoonlight » Fri May 19, 2017 10:42 am

View Original Postcyharding wrote:It's Patrick Stewart. What the hell are you are going to do? :shrug:


Use there imagination create possible new holodeck plays based on our themes and ideas which are relevant to our world in the present plus its an alternative universe Shakespeare might not be a famous writer and WW2 might not have happened world earths history could be very really different. Don't get me wrong I love Patrick Stewart and I love him in NG and I am in no way poking at him more the writers for missing an opportunity to make up new stories and creative ideas.

If there clever about it they could poke fun at fantasy literature I mean even in the originals series I always found it weird that no one wanted to fight a dragon on the holodeck like I would think if most people had a holodeck the first thing they'd want to do is play out there childhood fantasies be they killing dragons or seeing dinosaurs in the flesh.
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Re: Star Trek

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:48 pm

Well according to this article from screen rant, it appears the main character of Discovery is Spock's maternal half-sister. Now, this was the issue I had with them using a point in time so close to the original - using the big names of the TOS crew to draw in a crowd. Now, being a separate show from TOS, they had an opportunity to separate themselves from TOS and be an independent show with a new set of characters, however, they go and do this, and basically make a show about Spock's relative, which explains why the captain of the ship (whichever fucking ship they end up on anyway) isn't the main character. Total copout on their part.

Not to mention the last time we had a relative of Spock show up, the Enterprise went and met fucking God (or some such bullshit), so this is clearly not a road that should be gone down again.

Also, the fact that they're telling us the retcon will "eventually" make sense is all well and good, but that just sounds like an excuse for whatever outlandish shit they have planned. Just because Spock didn't mention a sister before means we need to add one just for the sake of marketing and getting people interested in the shown and I expect some half-assed Spock cameo sometime in the first season, whether it be a childhood Spock from a flashback, or a younger Spock from his time on the Enterprise pre-Kirk (see TOS' "The Cage" for more details). Hell, we may even see the actual pre-Kirk Enterprise with Captain Pike in command. Again, total copout.
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Re: Star Trek

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Postby Guy Nacks » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:46 pm

So, a new trailer just dropped for Discovery...and it contains a rather interesting bit of information about what we're in for:

Image

I have no idea what to make of this series having a TV-MA rating. I'm not necessarily against it, but this could be terrible if handled the wrong way.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:24 pm

Well, considering not even the movies have pushed that far, I'm expecting something like Sons of Anarchy in space. I mean, haven't all the shows been rated PG till now?

To put some current crime shows in perspective NCIS and its spin-offs, Law and Order and its spinoffs, and even the new Hawaii Five-0 all have TV-14 ratings, which include a moderate amount of blood, gore, and explosions for cable TV, and I'm fairly sure the JJ-verse has all been in the PG-13 range for ratings. Hell, even Battlestar Galactica had a TV-14 rating (barring a few scenes which were rated TV-MA). So, unless they're going to be swearing or literally gutting people in the show (which SoA had a lot of), I don't really see the need for the rating boost to cover that much. TV-14 should be plenty if they want to make it darker without going full on SoA or some other TV-MA show. I see them sort of over using this extra room and adding excessive gore to show which should be about exploration, especially considering its named Discovery, which is starting to look like a misleading title.


EDIT: I found this article online where the showrunner says they generally won't go above PG-13 (and I assume he means TV-14 but I digress...), but they want to push the envelope a bit yet still have a family friendly show. Honestly, it sounds like this show is a disaster waiting to happen, and they really don't have a solid direction yet as to what they actually want.
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Re: Star Trek

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:24 pm

So...... Star Trek Discovery.

Watched the premier, and nabbed my grandfather's CBS subscription info to give it the best shot possible, and it just falls short for me. Overall, the show has more of the feel of the JJ verse (lens flare included) than the universe its supposed to be set, and I understand that the sets and everything are being updated with the latest tech available to us, however, making the series too polished where it should be set after St: Nemesis, and not before TOS. Like cloaking devices also show up way too early, as they got those bad boys from the Romulans almost 12 years later, as does holographic communication, something that didn't appear in force until TNG. Also the visuals are heavily reminiscent of the JJ verse and the recent Star Wars movies. The rest if this post will be a filled with spoilers for the first two episodes of ST: DIS.

WARNING: MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD - READ AT YOUR OWN RISK  SPOILER: Show
The episode starts out with the Klingons, talking about needing to unite the 24 houses as Kahless once did, which makes sense, plot wise, setting up the Klingons as the baddies for the series. The show then jumps to a desert planet with Capt. Georgiou and MIchael Burnham going to save a planet by getting thier water supply back without violating the Prime Directive. Once that's done, the storm they were discussing was moving in, and apparently blocked thier communicators entirely. So, they wander around and the ship (not Discovery) eventually comes out of the clouds and beams them up. Now the issue I have with this is that the path thier two sets of tracks made was a perfect Starfleet insignia that the ship somehow picked up, even though there were clouds blocking visual contact, and then, in total disregard for the prime directive (similar to Into Darkness), where they could easily be seen by the inhabitants of the planet. Also, the mcguffin of it all that drawing a picture in the sand somehow drew the ship to them makes no sense whatsoever.

Opening title sequence was interesting, but felt like the closing credits to Iron Man wth all the schematics of the Discovery, phasers, and other such things, which didn't make it feel like the opening to Star trek like what we're used to.

After the title sequence we have what seems to be the JJ Warp effect instead of the simple flurry of quick moving stars flashing by, which is aggravating. Just because you can make warp seem fancy, doesn't mean it needs to be. The Saru character (the one that can sense death) is very annoying, as the actor seems to be trying to meld both Spock and Data, while also making a unique character, which just doesn't work. With thier discovery of an unknown object, later found out to be the Klingon ship from the first scene, is investigated by Burnham in an EVA suit. She's attacked by a Klingon, and ends up killing the guy by ramming into him and ripping open his EVA suit. This issue I have with this is that the ship is in a radiation field so bad it will begin to destroy your DNA, and the risk to Burnham's life is far too great to investigate what appears to be a relic in space. After getting knocked out, Burnham gets cooked a bit by the radiation and ends up injured.

So, after Burnham runs from sickbay to tell the Captain that he relic was Klingon, she convinces the captain to flush them out by targeting the relic, thus provoking the Klingons to decloak in front of them. So, after being told by starfleet to hold thier position and not engage the Klingons, and the Klingons lighting their relic to call the houses together, Burnham decides to nerve pinch the capital and take command, ordering an attack on the Klingons. The episode ends with the captain coming back to the bridge to stop Burnham before she really screws up, just as more Klingon ships are detected coming into range.

The second episode that was only available through streaming was difficult to play, stopping at items, and also had trouble with the initial loading. The episode breaks down Burnham's past. Her parents were killed by the Klingons, the Vulcans were the first to respond, and Sarek raised her by instilling Vulcan values on her. So, her outburst in the previous episode is a ripoff of Kirk's hatred for the Klingons killing his son. Also, with Burnham's character, she is psychically connected to Sarek through a mind meld he used to help her regain consciousness as a child after the Klingon attack. So, in true WTF fashion, she can contact Sarek mentally when she needs to, which is just... stupid.

The episode also deals with Burnham's incarceration for mutiny, and when the Klingons do attack, the brig is damaged and she uses logic to get the computer to release her, which also seems kinda stupid and nonsensical. Also, the main Klingon baddie we were led to believe would be around a while, being killed when the captain and Burnham beam over when trying to capture him as leverage. The way they beam over is extremely smart, by putting a bomb in a floating Klingon body that's recovered. This also gets the captain killed, and starts a damn war. The episode ends with the ship being abandoned with its remaining crew escaping, and Burnham being rightly convicted for mutiny, stripped of rank, and sentenced to life in prison. So, they effectively started a war, all because they couldn't leave well enough alone and not investigate a relic floating in space, and thus proving the Klingons right about the Federation, they're no good and a threat to them.

Personally having her being convicted of mutiny makes it seem almost improbable to her being released from prison to be on the Discovery, and it seems whoever Jason Issacs plays must have some serious pull to get her out. Also, this seems like a blatant ripoff of Tom Paris' storyline of being released from prison to serve on Voyager. Also, her character is all over the place. In the flashbacks, Burnham is shown to be far more in control of her emotions, to the point of seeming Vulcan. But in the present, she's somewhat irrational, letting her hatred of Klingons cloud her judgement. Also, a human acting like a Vulcan, even after being raised as one, just doesn't work. It just seems like a cheap way for CBS to get an established character a foothold in the new series. The same goes for Mudd (who I never liked in TOS anyway) getting pulled in just to get established fans of the series somewhat excited. Also, I'm not seeing the point of the TV-MA rating, there wasn't anything I saw that really pushed anything Star Trek hasn't done in the past. It seems more like a cheap hook to get people interested in what could happen in the show.

Yes, I did nitpick a bit with the show, but the show is really Star Trek in name only, as the main character really isn't that brilliant or relatable, because of what she did in the premiere. Sure, trek has a knack for opening seasons being somewhat lame, but for a series with so many production issues, it shows in the pacing and feel of the show. And for those of you that want to skip the the spoilers...

TL;DR - Star Trek Discovery is Star Trek in name only, presenting more as a JJ-verse Star Trek: Battlefront. Rating 4/10, would not recommend.
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Re: Star Trek

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Postby Sachi » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:34 pm

From what I hear, Seth MacFarlane's new sci-fi spoof, The Orville, is a more worthy Star Trek show than Discovery. I think I might check that out instead.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:30 pm

I did, and I was impressed by it. There's the McFarlane level of comedy in it, but the show itself has a good solid chance, and certainly knows how to trek through the stars in proper fashion.
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Postby Guy Nacks » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:03 pm

Of course Disco is going to feel different; it has a new creative staff. All the previous Trek shows of the last 30 years have been produced by the same people (Berman/Braga/Taylor/Piller).


I’ve only seen the first episode and I think we’ve been presented with an interesting MC who’s going to be a bit more complex and have more of a grey morality than MCs of series passed. I really enjoyed what they were able to set up and am looking forward to watching future episodes.

If you’re going to give up after 2 episodes when the entire first season of TNG was mostly terrible, well...that’s indicative that you weren’t going to give the first Trek series we’ve had in a dozen years much of a chance anyway.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:00 pm

It's not just the creative staff that's changed, its the entire feel of the show.

Every series before this one, including Enterprise, had one thing in common, a wonder for exploration and for discovery. Even in the darker parts of the series, like the Dominion War, there was always hope. This series has a pessimistic leading character, which takes the darker parts of Sisko's characterization way too far. They also have an entire race of pessimistic people who can "sense" death that think any situation is going to end in certain doom. On top of that, you have Burnham
SPOILER: Show
knocks the captain out to take command, because she believes attacking the Klingons is the only way to deal with them properly. She's clearly an unstable character who clearly believes their way is the only way. Also they killed off Captain Georgiou, who was far more interesting than Burnham.
This way of looking at things is not very Star Trek, as the Federation standard is to talk first and hold off from fighting if there are no other alternatives.

As for giving up on the series, I wanted the show to be good, with current TV, I have maybe three shows I watch (Supernatural, Archer, and one other I can't even remember at the moment), and right now, Orville is looking like the spiritual successor to what I call Star Trek. I see this change more as CBS trying to draw in a different crowd for the ratings, rather than trying to draw in the old Trekkies. I was born after TNG had come out, and to be fair, as a kid, even the crappy episodes weren't that bad. And the only series that I saw as it came out was Enterprise, and even those shitty episodes of all the different series still had the happy glint of exploration in them somewhere. This show doesn't and that's why I don't see it as worth watching, it's Star Trek in name only.
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Postby Guy Nacks » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:30 pm

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:It's not just the creative staff that's changed, its the entire feel of the show.


Well, obviously, man. That and it's been literally a dozen years since the last show was on. It has to adapt. In the very beginning of TNG, they tried to keep it as close in feel to the '60s show and it was a big part of why the first couple seasons were so horrible. You can't produce a show with 60s sensibilities in the late 80s, just the same as it's inadvisable to produce a show with mid 00s sensibilities in 2017, when the television landscape has changed to prominently feature complex characters whose morals are not so clear cut.

Even in the darker parts of the series, like the Dominion War, there was always hope.


You're saying there's already no hope 2 episodes into a 15-episode series? Jesus, man, get a grip and give the show a fair shot to do something different.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:39 pm

No, I've seen the way CBS handles reboots in recent years. Hawaii Five-0 started out great, started to decline after season 3/4, they tried MacGyver on for size... which its lead character is just flat and no where near as funny as the original. So, CBS has a poor track record when it comes to doing anything related to reboots as of late. Moral ambiguity aside, the main character had a temper tantrum when she didn't get her way. I don't see how that is a redeeming quality.

And the thing about Star Trek is this, its supposed to have hope and show what humans can accomplish in the future. And not all shows need to be the same, cookie cutter hour long drama, with the same character archetypes being put on display in every show, something should dare to be different from the norm, and the way Trek used to be would do just that. It should bring the joy of space exploration to television, not change the premise of the show to make it more gritty and edible for the masses. That's the problem with placing this show 10 years before TOS, it doesn't fit with the idealistic way Roddenberry viewed the future, or what's already been established by canon. If this show was set after Nemesis, and after the wars and conflicts already depicted on screen, then it could work, the Federation is tired of being kicked around and becomes less idealistic and more militaristic, but shoehorning it in before TOS to draw the attention of the Trekkies, while also making it more palatable for the masses, yes, I do think its a lost cause.

And its ironic mentioning a Trek show daring to be different. I beleive Enterprise tried to break the mold and show us humans before the Federation, when we could barely fight the bad guys off and how much people disliked that show. This show throws it in the opposite direction, trying to appeal to everyone just so CBS can try and get another hit show.
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Postby silvermoonlight » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:00 am

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:And its ironic mentioning a Trek show daring to be different. I beleive Enterprise tried to break the mold and show us humans before the Federation, when we could barely fight the bad guys off and how much people disliked that show. This show throws it in the opposite direction, trying to appeal to everyone just so CBS can try and get another hit show.


I remember watching Enterprise and it wasn't the change of tone that got on my nerves as I enjoyed it, what ruined it for me was the constant fan service which was there purely to boost ratings and felt really insincere and Captain Archer's constant fighting with T'Pol which gets borderline nasty at times. Now I get that the captain sometimes has arguments with crew but it was in most episodes.

They also had a great crew but they barely used them in story lines and only cared to focus on the leads and due to this I have no found memories of the show and no episodes stood out to me unlike in the other ST series. In my view CBS was not ready for dark or gritty back in early 2000's but they might be now as the playing field has changed so drastically and they have to compete with shows like Game Of Thrones and American Gods so I want to give them and the new Star Trek a chance and if its successful we could get other better spin off series.
Last edited by silvermoonlight on Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:02 am

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:If you’re going to give up after 2 episodes when the entire first season of TNG was mostly terrible, well...that’s indicative that you weren’t going to give the first Trek series we’ve had in a dozen years much of a chance anyway.

The first season of TNG is allowed to be as "terrible" as it was because it was a follow-up to a rather fun and cheesy Star Trek TV series. (The movies are really the most impressive parts of the original Star Trek series, not the show.) TNG becoming as good as it ended up being was unexpected and rather mind-blowing to its fans. To hold fans reaction to Disco to their reaction to TNG isn't being very fair to the chronology of the work.

That being said, I haven't seen Disco yet. But the stated goals of the show runners don't promise a very consistent work. The online only release is the only thing keeping me from watching it myself.


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