Will Instrumentality Occur Entirely in The "Real World" of Evangelion This Time?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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unitM
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Will Instrumentality Occur Entirely in The "Real World" of Evangelion This Time?

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Postby unitM » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:10 pm

Hi,

I was re-reading old End of Evangelion scripts and noticed something particular. In Q, we know there's a number of reversals that occur:
  • Q: SEELE has changed the form of their souls. EoE: SEELE has no intentions of changing their human form.
  • Q: NERV is now in charge of SEELE and the quickening of Instrumentality. EoE: SEELE is in charge of NERV and hastens Instrumentality through force.
  • Q: SEELE dies, physically turned off before Instrumentality. EoE: SEELE survives in Instrumentality.*
* SEELE states to Gendo that "death is what you shall have", seemingly excluding themselves from death. Further, in EoE, they die with the start of Instrumentality, are tanged, and release a soul. In Q, they are visually implied to die. They don't release a soul and their deaths are implied to serve the beginning of a contract, not as part of Instrumentality's general process.

There are many other changes naturally from the Rebuild series vs. the other media adaptions, however most endings of the series have Instrumentality being a mindfuck of sorts, a collection of Shinji's worries with the collective egos of everyone else in the world. In other words, the portrayals of Instrumentality thus far have been heavily in Shinji's head, with some snippets of the physical world.

What if the final twist to Evangelion Final is that Instrumentality occurs in the real(Anime, not live action) world and not through anyone's eyes at all? I of course expect to have some metaphysical momentum through the process, but what if there is no introversion, no sand pit scenes, and no sleazy cyanotope "what if Asuka slept with Toji" setups? What if it's all Shinji being moved and transported around, along with the other characters, with all sorts of spiritual occurrences happening around them? With the strange pictures we've seen of a cave with bright lights at the end, Unit 01 marching towards it, Asuka clinging onto a rock behind it... it might not be far off.

What does everyone think?

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Re: Will Instrumentality Occur Entirely in The "Real World" of Evangelion This Time?

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Postby Reichu » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:30 pm

In EoE, Seele are very much intent on leaving their human forms behind. They just aren't doing it for the purpose of getting on an Eva-Ark; they have something different in mind.

"Asuka clinging to a rock" -- I don't think anyone actually knows what that figure is supposed to represent.
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Re: Will Instrumentality Occur Entirely in The "Real World" of Evangelion This Time?

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Postby unitM » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:40 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:In EoE, Seele are very much intent on leaving their human forms behind. They just aren't doing it for the purpose of getting on an Eva-Ark; they have something different in mind.

"Asuka clinging to a rock" -- I don't think anyone actually knows what that figure is supposed to represent.
There's a stark contrast between SEELE in EOE and in Q. SEELE to Gendo in EoE: "We have no intention of giving up our human forms simply to enter the Ark called Eva." Gendo to SEELE in Q: "Though you have all changed the form of your souls". The contrast isn't just in the soul form, it's even there with the speaker(SEELE to Gendo vs. Gendo to SEELE) and the timeline("We have no intention to give up our form to do this" vs. "Even though you've already changed your form to do this"). I think it can be argued both ways, though you're probably right. That's a minor inconvenience, though, because that point can be replaced with a number of other changes in the Rebuild series vs. other adaptations.

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Re: Will Instrumentality Occur Entirely in The "Real World" of Evangelion This Time?

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Postby Reichu » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:17 pm

I was attempting to comment on the fact that you simply write "SEELE has no intentions of changing their human form", which does not communicate what's actually going on in EoE. They don't say "change", they say "give up" or "abandon", and they also qualify it with their lack of interest in the "ark" scenario. Later on, Fuyutsuki clarifies what this means by asking if Eva-01 will be the ark by which humanity rides out Third Impact or the demon that destroys us. The former refers to the Ark (= temporary refuge) scenario that Seele have no intention of pursuing. The latter references Seele's scenario, which destroys humanity by turning it into something else, as Misato previously laid out for us.
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Re: Will Instrumentality Occur Entirely in The "Real World" of Evangelion This Time?

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Postby unitM » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:42 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:I was attempting to comment on the fact that you simply write "SEELE has no intentions of changing their human form", which does not communicate what's actually going on in EoE. They don't say "change", they say "give up" or "abandon", and they also qualify it with their lack of interest in the "ark" scenario. Later on, Fuyutsuki clarifies what this means by asking if Eva-01 will be the ark by which humanity rides out Third Impact or the demon that destroys us. The former refers to the Ark (= temporary refuge) scenario that Seele have no intention of pursuing. The latter references Seele's scenario, which destroys humanity by turning it into something else, as Misato previously laid out for us.
I've never actually looked at what Fuyu said as a distinction between Gendo and SEELE's scenario. That actually makes a lot of sense. That said, and without diverging from the topic too much, which do you think it ended up being then? The Ark or the demon? Because I can't see one or the other but only a middle ground there.

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Re: Will Instrumentality Occur Entirely in The "Real World" of Evangelion This Time?

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Postby Sachi » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:07 pm

The ark, since Eva 01 was used to ride out the wave of Third Impact and people are able to come back after.
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