"der Verlust" - Kyoko's Motivations

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anonymaus
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"der Verlust" - Kyoko's Motivations

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Postby anonymaus » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:46 am

I noticed some things about the sequence in Episode 22 where Arael is invading Asuka's mind and memories.
This is a big image, open it in a new tab.

https://i.imgur.com/vSyjYfP.jpg

It seems possible that Kyoko might not have thought as little of her daughter as Asuka thinks.

-

Here is a second image. I noticed the asuka-clone scene takes place in a train station. One of the 'peinlich es' images, the one depicting the dual-wielding person, also seems to depict a train station.
https://i.imgur.com/batV4Gm.jpg
Some speculations on what this means. I really haven't got a good idea. She calls out and reaches out as if the person might be Kaji. This could mean that Kaji was involved in Asuka's training for the Evangelion program, which would explain why they seem to know each other before she gets to NERV.
Last edited by anonymaus on Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.

imprimatur13
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Re: "der Verlust" - Kyoko's Motivations

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Postby imprimatur13 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:19 am

Wow... this actually kind of makes sense. Now, of course, I think general consensus doesn't assign Kyoko the role of "uncaring mother" because she participated in the contact experiment. Far as that goes, she's really no different from Yui.

However, I like this very much. It explains a particularly knotty problem (which has always confused me, and to which nobody has ever been able to offer any explanation. At all.), which is: What the hell is the "maternal portion of the soul"? And why is THAT what went?

I suppose what you're saying, is that Kyoko's feelings for her daughter were so strong at the time, that that was the part of her that was at the front of her mind/soul, and so that was what was most... available to the Eva, to be transferred. I like this theory. Thanks!
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Re: "der Verlust" - Kyoko's Motivations

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Postby Reichu » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:08 am

Attendee A suggests that mental breakdown due to the contact experiment was why Kyoko killed herself, then corrects himself and implies that there was more to it than just that. Next scene is Langley and Kyoko's doctor (eventually Langley's new wife) talking in the room next to where Asuka is watching Kyoko talk to the doll. Their conversation ends with them being intimate with each other.

The implication is that Kyoko was aware of Langley's faltering love for her. A bystander at the funeral would have been able to deduce this readily by the fact that Langley showed up at the event with his new wife. In any case, this interpretation is verified in episode 25:

Asuka'S MOTHER:
Your dad doesn't love your mom anymore.
He doesn't need me.
No, he never loved me to begin with.
He probably didn't need me from the start.
So, die with me, because your dad doesn't need us.

anonymaus
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Re: "der Verlust" - Kyoko's Motivations

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Postby anonymaus » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:23 am

You might be right about the Gehirn employees given the scene that comes right after.
Also, I still think their conversation is notable because of the starting part.
"The hypothetical became reality.
"Talk about unlucky, the proponent becoming the test subject herself."
The wording means a lot here. Hopefully the translation is literal. Is he saying Kyoko didn't mean to become the test subject?
'The hypothetical became reality.' He almost seems disbelieved about it, as if the production of EVA-02 was held up (by the lack of a soul for the core?)
It seems to me like Kyoko took a dive (heh) for the sake of her daughter and the world.

The more important part is the 'der Verlust' image. I can not tell what it depicts, other than a hand with a rolled-up sleeve touching something.
Either being dramatically thrust onto something halfspheroid, or leveraging off something to help the owner stand up.
I feel given the other images and the words ('the Loss') that there's a good chance it's Kyoko doing whatever it is that made Asuka 'lose' her.

Here is a second image. I noticed the asuka-clone scene takes place in a train station. One of the 'peinlich es' images, the one depicting the dual-wielding person, also seems to depict a train station.
https://i.imgur.com/batV4Gm.jpg
Some speculations on what this means. I really haven't got a good idea. She calls out and reaches out as if the person might be Kaji. This could mean that Kaji was involved in Asuka's training for the Evangelion program, which would explain why they seem to know each other before she gets to NERV.
Last edited by anonymaus on Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: "der Verlust" - Kyoko's Motivations

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Postby imprimatur13 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:38 am

View Original Postanonymaus wrote:This could mean that Kaji was involved in Asuka's training for the Evangelion program, which would explain why they seem to know each other before she gets to NERV.

Furiously formulates fan-theory that Kaji was the one who recruited Asuka in the first place, and was thus there at the perfect time to take on the "Father-figure" role.
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Kyoko's Melons: Currently being completely rewritten, so... if anyone liked it so far, great. I did too. But... not enough. ;)

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Re: "der Verlust" - Kyoko's Motivations

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Postby Reichu » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:33 pm

I would discourage putting so much of your post content inside giant images. If it's text, can it not be text in the post itself? That way, if a host like imgur goes down, much less information is lost.

View Original Postanonymaus wrote:"Talk about unlucky, the proponent becoming the test subject herself."
The wording means a lot here. Hopefully the translation is literal. Is he saying Kyoko didn't mean to become the test subject?

The original wording for "Talk about unlucky" is 因果なモノだな。(Inga na mono na.) Inga seems to be referring to the idea of "causality" or "cause and effect" more so than "bad luck" (something bad happening to someone for no reason). It might be more accurate to translate this as "How very karmic". See this page, and CTRL+F "inga".

I wouldn't take the flashing images too literally. You're using them to try to figure out something as specific as whether or not Kyoko was wearing a dive suit, on the basis of a deformed and abstract figure touching something that is nowhere near the size of an Eva's core.

anonymaus
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Re: "der Verlust" - Kyoko's Motivations

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Postby anonymaus » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:41 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:(...)


The size of a core doesn't necessarily have to be rigid, we see a core even split into two during the series. We see a core form a mouth in order to accept something into it. Bear in mind that only part of Kyoko's soul was taken into the core. Maybe the core size had something to do with that.
The fact that the figure is deformed/blurred/hidden makes it even more important. It's probably important information. It just reeks of concealed important info.
It seems overwhelmingly likely that this image depicts Kyoko's contact experiment, or suicide, given that the text that comes right before it is ''the Loss."

Edit: It seems that Evangelion units have a large core and two miniature cores. https://i.imgur.com/CQP4Dgv.png
One could surmise that the three aspects of a human soul, as defined by the Magi computer (the person as an aspirant, the person as a parent, and the person as a lover) are contained in each core.
For some reason only a third of Kyoko's soul was taken. Perhaps she was supposed to touch all three cores. Perhaps the only thing in her mind at that moment was love for Asuka. In any case, this can explain why the object the figure is touching appears so much smaller than a usual core.
Actually, another possibility is that Kyoko's contact experiment went exactly as planned, and this is the way they're supposed to go, only the motherly aspect being taken.
Because in episode 21', Naoko says of Yui's contact experiment: ''The irregular circumstances erased her from this world. Just as I had hoped. I'm such a terrible woman..." This makes it seem strongly like the contact experiment wouldn't have killed Yui except for Naoko sabotaging the conditions somehow, in order to get Gendo for herself.


I appreciate your translation, and here is something else to note. A German native on 4chan had this to say about the text 'peinliches':

Peinlich means embarassing, peinliches is the genitive of the adjective; it's mostly used in the phrase "es ist mir peinlich" which means it (something) is embarassing to me. Painful is a wrong translation.


So I corrected the images with this translation and yours.

It would be very useful to discover what the 'peinliches' image with the guy dual-wielding weapons depicts, and when it happens in Asuka's life.
That way we could tell if these images are in chronological order or not. If they're chronologically ordered, the 'der Verlust' image, depicting someone touching something with a rolled up sleeve, can't be Kyoko's contact experiment (because we see Mr. Langley porking her nurse right before the der Verlust image)

Other possibility for what it depicts: someone doubled over in shock after finding Kyoko hanged herself


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