Anyone else feel dislike towards EoE nowadays?

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Postby TheCarkolum » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:27 am

Cybermat47 wrote:It's the culmination of everything that was built up in NGE,

Yeah. Even though I have my problems with EoE, I have to admit that is totally true. I've never felt anything from the series left aside in EoE.
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Postby C.T.1290 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:12 pm

View Original PostCybermat47 wrote:I absolutely despise EoE because of how much I love it.

It's the culmination of everything that was built up in NGE, which means that:

- Shinji attempts suicide.
- Shinji sexually assaults Asuka.
- Shinji attempts to kill Asuka.
- Shinji tells Rei to destroy the individuality of every living being.
- Rei gets robbed of any chance of a normal life.
- Misato again loses control and makes sexual overtures to Shinji.
- Misato bleeds to death.
- Asuka is horrifically mutilated and torn apart.
- Asuka takes all the rage and anger from her experiences, and her conflicting feelings about Shinji, and takes them out on him, vocally and physically.
- Gendo reveals that he was always distant out of fear of hurting Shinji.
- Ritsuko loses everything and dies.
- Fuyutsuki has an unrequited love for Yui.
- Hyuga has an unrequited love for Misato.
- Maya has an unrequited love for Ritsuko.
- Aoba is truly alone in the world.
- Yui spends eternity in complete loneliness.
- The JSSDF and Nerv butcher each other due to a lie.

Fuck, why does this movie have to be so good? I hate it!

The bolded part is exactly the problem I have with Asuka.
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Postby barnett » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:59 pm

The first time I watched it, EoE felt almost like a betrayal. But EoE is now an integral part of Evangelion for me too, something that elevated it from being an amazing anime series to a life-changing work of art. Without EoE there is no Evangelion.
While I still appreciate it, through the years the TV ending has resonated less and less with me. EoE emerged instead as the natural conclusion of the downward spiral started in e19. It is a move that, even with all its surreal settings, remains viscerally real at an emotional level, takes no shortcuts, and gives justice to each characters.

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Re: Anyone else feel dislike towards EoE nowadays?

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Postby Joy Evangelion » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:56 pm

barnett wrote:The first time I watched it, EoE felt almost like a betrayal.


Yea, I felt the same way. It messed with my head and ruined my day the first time I watched it. But now it's my favorite flick; I do believe that's the course it takes for a lot of Evageeks.

barnett wrote:Without EoE there is no Evangelion.


I'm going to have to disagree with this though. I think Neon Genesis Evangelion works perfectly on its own without End of Evangelion. No second half of any series comes anywhere close to the second half of NGE, with episodes 22-24 being particularly fantastic. I think if we lived in a world without EoE the ending of the series would be a tad hard to swallow, but I think we'd all come to be happy with it after meditating on it for a while. And I'm saying this though my favorite episode is probably 26' and I have a strong dislike of EoTV.

barnett wrote:EoE emerged instead as the natural conclusion of the downward spiral started in e19.


Doesn't the downward spiral sort of begin with Shogouki falling into Leliel in Episode 16?

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Re: Anyone else feel dislike towards EoE nowadays?

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Postby Cybermat47 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:26 am

View Original PostJoy Evangelion wrote:Doesn't the downward spiral sort of begin with Shogouki falling into Leliel in Episode 16?


Nah, it begins as soon as the opening credits of episode 1 start.
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Postby AdamMalkovitch » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:30 am

Absolutely not. End of Evangelion is my favorite film of all time, and my favorite conclusion to any narrative, period. It's so perfect and disturbing. The only problem I have with it is the ~10 minute gap of nothing between the infamous hospital scene (which was absolutely vital to include) and the JSSDF raid. It's really just a repeat of what happened when that computery Angel tried to take over the MAGI during one of the early episodes. Another issue I have is with Unit 01's physical appearance. I didn't realize until recently, but before Until you Come to Me, we had no idea what an unarmoured Evangelion actually looks like. The only change I would make to this movie is to have Unit 01's armour melt off or something, revealing it's true, disgusting organic form after escaping Lilith's face. It's body would then have pale skin, like that of Lilith's, spread over it, and cause it to look like a hybrid of Yui and Gendo, floating through space, forever together.
I absolutely loved the disturbing, overly detailed violence in the second half of the series, and End of really cranked that up to 11. I noticed a lot of people in this thread say that they prefer the TV ending because Shinji acted like a little bitch throughout it, but if you think about it, that really makes sense. Shinji was already withdrawn and depressed before the series even began, and he's been through so much horrible shit throughout the series, it's really no wonder his will to live, or really do anything, is completely gone. He didn't decide to not pilot Unit 01, he fully intended to after Misato's sacrifice, but he physically could not get to it because of the hardened Bakelite. He only gets in after Asuka's death because Unit 01 was able to overcome it's restraints for a split second, like in the very first episode, and help her child.
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Postby TheCarkolum » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:10 pm

View Original PostJoy Evangelion wrote:I think Neon Genesis Evangelion works perfectly on its own without End of Evangelion.

A movie like EoE is the conclusion that EVA needed. In the show there were still many loose ends that we need to be resolved. I'm not saying that EoE leaves no loose ends, however not only fixes some, but it's like full-mode EVA. Elevates it to a whole level, visually and narratively. With that said, some things could be different in EoE, but it's undeniable that EoE helps EVA to be what it is.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:41 pm

View Original PostAdamMalkobitch wrote:before Until you Come to Me, we had no idea what an unarmoured Evangelion actually looks like.
Episodes 2, 3 and 21 gave a good idea, though.
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Postby Reichu » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:00 pm

View Original PostAdamMalkobitch wrote:I didn't realize until recently, but before Until you Come to Me, we had no idea what an unarmoured Evangelion actually looks like.

"No idea"? Glimpses were provided throughout the series (02, 03, 13, 19, 20, and of course EoE itself). Of course, a lot of them are mutually exclusive with one another (Eva-02 runs through no less than three different naked head designs, for example), but they are there nonetheless. I still have the reference sheets I made back in the early 00s compiling every bit of "exposure" in a binder somewhere. Good times.

The Adams in UYCTM are nonindicative of what the NGE Evas look like without armor, though the heads are clearly modeled after Eva-01's episode #20 look.

The only change I would make to this movie is to have Unit 01's armour melt off or something, revealing it's true, disgusting organic form after escaping Lilith's face. It's body would then have pale skin, like that of Lilith's, spread over it, and cause it to look like a hybrid of Yui and Gendo, floating through space, forever together.

"Disgusting" -- watch out, that's probably your ancestors' and creators' physical appearance you're unrepetantly insulting. Doubtless any FAR who were not brainwashed in acceptance by being forced to live as one of us would find us uniquely grotesque in ways we cannot even imagine.

Eva-01's skin is a delicious dark chocolate color, by the way. It only becomes pasty and white in the new movies. Anno had her literally whitewashed, and I will never forgive him.

He only gets in after Asuka's death because Unit 01 was able to overcome it's restraints for a split second, like in the very first episode, and help her child.

Eva-01 had the S2 Engine at that point, and episode 1 established that she is so acutely aware of her surroundings that she can respond in a split second to stimulae if need be. Yet, despite Shinji being present, she just sits there and does nothing until exactly the moment the Soryus are dead. Makes one think... maybe she was waiting for it.

On top of that, we see in the events that transpire that Yui denies Shinji any actual piloting control from the get-go: she emerges from Nerv HQ already berserk. The real point of getting him into the cockpit was to drag him into the nightmare of Third Impact, which might be "helping" him in Yui's four-dimensional god-logic, but I don't get the sense that's what you meant. :nyao:

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Postby AdamMalkovitch » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:18 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Eva-01 had the S2 Engine at that point, and episode 1 established that she is so acutely aware of her surroundings that she can respond in a split second to stimulae if need be. Yet, despite Shinji being present, she just sits there and does nothing until exactly the moment the Soryus are dead. Makes one think... maybe she was waiting for it.

I remember someone theorizing that Yui waited because she didn't approve of Asuka being a dick to Shinji the majority of the time.
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Postby Reichu » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:44 pm

View Original PostAdamMalkobitch wrote:I remember someone theorizing that Yui waited because she didn't approve of Asuka being a dick to Shinji the majority of the time.

Such speculation I feel arises from a fundamental misunderstanding of Yui's character. Petty resentment isn't anywhere in the picture. She's a big-picture thinker, concerned with long-term things like the survival of humanity and an eternal testament to its existence. I think she's capable of love, but that her love is very abstract and impersonal by normal human standards. Inscrutable, in a way. Any kind of hate should be similar: if it exists, it is probably in a form mostly unrecognizable to the rest of us. Sitting by and letting Asuka and Kyoko die terribly because Asuka was kind of mean to her boy is far too base and mortal in its emotional logic to be remotely Yui-like. Meaning it's almost certainly not the reason why she did nothing.

Now, what about inscrutable big-picture Yui logic? She intends to see 3I and HIP through with herself at the center of it all. Humanity will briefly be one, and then be liberated back to individualized existence and forever freed from the tampering influence of FAR technology. Consider that Asuka is intent on stopping 3I as long as Eva-02 can fight. Furthermore, Kyoko's soul cannot partake of HIP as long as Eva-02's core is intact. (Remember the MP Evas killing themselves at the same time that Lilin across the globe are being melted down?) For things to proceed, Eva-02 has to die. And all Lilin are going to briefly die via Third Impact's AATF anyway. So either Eva-01 does it herself (Shinji seems to need to actually sync with her for the purposes of the Impact -- so traumatizing him that way is probably not a good idea), or she sits back and lets things happen as they will.

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Postby zlink64 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:29 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:The bolded part is exactly the problem I have with Asuka.

This is the bold part: "Asuka takes all the rage and anger from her experiences, and her conflicting feelings about Shinji, and takes them out on him, vocally and physically."

Would it change your mind if you considered Shinji's actions towards her. Like during the coffee pot scene Asuka wants to get away from Shinji but he keeps trying to approach her. He almost comes off as unrelenting. Then in the hospital masturbation scene I imagine she doesn't want to be near anyone but Shinji shows up. No one told Shinji to go there. She does have conflicting feelings but Shinji does seem to be the one causing the literal confrontations albeit he is probably completely oblivious to what he is doing. IMO I rather not blame anyone but this Asuka pov has been on my mind recently so just mentioning it.
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Postby kuribo-04 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:04 am

Still my favourite movie. A visual masterpiece. It uses everything the series builds to the max.
I seriously think about it when I feel low.
To me it's life-affirming.
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Postby TheChosenJuan » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:27 pm

Meh, it was okay. Since the makers seem to be as much as a mental clusterfuck as the characters are it's difficult to find it better or worse, since the personal grade of any type of art comes down to someone elses liking and interpretation. And since there is no limit to interpreting anything to everything that's not a matter I consider important. It was simply the imagination of a person how things could be.
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Postby ACGT-Samael » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:52 am

I wouldn't say I dislike EoE, but it doesn't really satisfy my philosophy of "it's a movie first and an adaptation/continuation second". It does feel like if was made with cinema in mind, but if it was your first exposure to Eva then prepare to be confused beyond belief.

View Original PostJoseki wrote:I'm not a great fan of EoE as a movie. It is a product with a strong artistic value and it is a great tool to understand in what state Anno was after Neon Genesis Evangelion being so personal, but as movie it's far from perfect.
There are some objective flaws like the pacing that commits suicide after the credits, some choices and scenes I personally didn't found necessary (the pyramid scene with that horrible grain filter) but the main reason why I'm not a fan of it is because of how I feel Anno treats the character: he purposefully crush all of them in such a way that feels almost unnecessary cruel for the plot, almost as if he wanted to harm himself while making the movie.
The payoff of all this feels to me emotionally underwhelming too, the beach scene has some great visuals but it falls flat compared to the end of episode 26.
I would still rate the movie highly if I had to objectively assign a score from 1 to 10 to it, but I don't like it much.


I mean, it's not like treating the characters so brutally is out or left field. Almost everyone in the series suffered to some degree, usually psychologically, and what happens in EoE contInues on logically from there.

That said, seeing the previously scheming SEELE turn into a cadre of chanting loons was pretty jarring, as was the idea that a facility meant to keep the Angels away from Lilith not even being equipped to keep out a few terrorists, according to Aoba. And while I commend the second half for the sheer use of symbolism, the amount of exposition that comes with it can get pretty dam grating because it's so uneven.

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Postby pwhodges » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:13 pm

View Original PostACGT-Samael wrote:if it was your first exposure to Eva then prepare to be confused beyond belief.

It was; I was. But things improved from then on...
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:01 pm

The only thing I ever disliked about EoE was the hospital scene, which I'm sure others have mentioned. As for the story itself, I believe it compliments EoTV's budget conscious ending. Though in the few years since I've seen it, EoE's ending hasn't aged well with me, as it leaves more unanswered questions than EoTV's ending. Were Shinji and Asuka going to have to repopulate the Earth? Or were others supposed to come back? Considering the religious symbolism in the show, I tend to lean towards the former and assume (whether I'm correct or not) that no one else came back.
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Postby Negi Springfield » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:45 am

I've been kind of on hiatus as far as Neon Genesis Evangelion is concerned. It's a nostalgia fuel series for me, so my perspective is a bit skewed. Also an escapist thing for me. The main character is sort of like me, even as a 30 year old. I guess you could say I'm the type of person that Anno was looking at when he made End of Evangelion. My thoughts on it are pretty much the same. I think it's really good and had a lot of scenes that still come to mind, years later. Also it had the unique mix of real life and animation. The only anime that did anything nearly as interesting was (in my opinion) Serial Experiments Lain. NGE and EoE will live on as a classic, even if the Rebuilds changed the game. I think it's going to be that way because of nostalgia and how people felt when they watched it for the first time. It was quite a mind fuck. Most of us were not ready for it, despite the show having a ton of weird stuff in it already. We just weren't ready for...well damn near everything.

The Rebuilds are...visally appealing but they lack what gave EoE it's edge. The time it came out and the themes it dealt with. A lot of us were no older than Shinji when we experienced it. It's crazy to think that in 2018 we're still talking about a movie that came out in 1997. That's the power of nostalgia I suppose. It stays in our memories forever. Now, if you'll excuse me I got some vaporwave to listen to.
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Postby kuribo-04 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:05 pm

View Original PostNegi Springfield wrote: The time it came out and the themes it dealt with. A lot of us were no older than Shinji when we experienced it

I was 16 when I watched Rebuild, only a year older than when I watched NGE. To me they are very close in time.
A very subjective think.
It's crazy to think I'll watch the last film so much later, but I'm thankful I'm getting more Eva at this point.
It's crazy to think that in 2018 we're still talking about a movie that came out in 1997. That's the power of nostalgia I suppose

That, and it being a masterpiece. ;)
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Postby Blockio » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:01 pm

After lurking in this thread forever, I feel like I should give my two cents as well: No, I dont. as much as I like (over-)analyzing whatever is on screen, I also genuinely enjoy watching it.
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