If Evangelion had a clearer approach, would it lose its charm?

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If Evangelion had a clearer approach, would it lose its charm?

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Postby The Flying Fortress » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:35 pm

I watched Evangelion in its entirety on 3 occasions, yet many mysteries were only discovered by me through research in wikia's on the internet. My point is, I'm not the only one who shares this feeling, even feeling guilty when I realize That other people understand their mysteries and for these reasons this series is so acclaimed, my reasons why I like Eva seem so simplistic, sometimes I get the impression that people who like this anime are experts in psychology, symbolism, religions etc. . Evangelion has a VERY qualified mass of fans do not you think? . So I value myself, I'm a casual viewer, most viewers of anime are likely to be too, so Evangelion is so acclaimed by these "so cultured" people, they spread the reasons why the anime should be praised, but I I do not feel represented in most of them, mainly as a casual viewer I could not even detect them. But Evangelion is a franchise, so I had the opportunity to consume the same story on a different platform, the manga, it offered me a glimpse of how Eva can be clear without losing her arguments, I wondered why the anime could not have been a More accessible show where more people can enjoy it without having to solve mysteries practically indecipherable, as if we were forced to enter the game that the author proposed to understand the story completely.

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Re: If Evangelion had a clearer approach, would it lose its charm?

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Postby imprimatur13 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:42 pm

I think it would have, to some extent. Because, Eva has a compelling cast of characters. This makes the viewer interested in their world. Keeping all this info subtly hinted to, rather than explicit, is nice. The show's making you work for it. And the effort and time you invest into figuring it out, only makes you more attached.
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Re: If Evangelion had a clearer approach, would it lose its charm?

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Postby The Flying Fortress » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:56 pm

↑ This is the common guide for someone to enjoy any anime, things start to get strange when I need to resort to other means that are not anime to understand the story.

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Re: If Evangelion had a clearer approach, would it lose its charm?

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Postby TheCarkolum » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:13 pm

I wouldn't say EVA has a tough approach. It's not an easy approach sometimes, but that's because the amount of themes involved in the series. Lain, Texhnolyze, Boogiepop Phantom, these have a much more tough approach. EVA makes it easier because the Angels and the gradual characterization. If EVA lost all the iconography and all, maybe. I think that EVA has a fame of being cryptic and difficult to grasp just because EoE's fault (also because ep 25 and 26). If you're asking if EoE could have been done clearer, yes, yes I think so. The ending is perfect for me thou. Would lose his charm? Mmm I don't think so. Maybe some reputation, but who cares about fame in anime? Just look SAO :D :D
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Re: If Evangelion had a clearer approach, would it lose its charm?

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:23 pm

Well, it depends, how clear are we talking? Like everything is explained in immaculate detail leaving no questions unanswered like Star Trek technology is, or a more RDM BSG where the big and medium shit is explained in a fair amount of detail while some stuff is either partially explained, ignored, or left to your imagination?
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Re: If Evangelion had a clearer approach, would it lose its charm?

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Postby StrokeMeGoat » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:04 pm

In general, i think intellectual properties benefit more when their creators/authors respect their audience's intelligence. There's definitely a way to be too obscure with your themes and intended meanings, but assuming you can keep from doing that, I find myself infinitely more likely to enjoy works where things are shown or presented in ways besides having them otherwise explicitly stated.

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Re: If Evangelion had a clearer approach, would it lose its charm?

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Postby Shinji Ikari Expy » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:59 pm

Don't confuse complexity with unclear writing. Evangelion has plenty of both.

It's complex in many ways — in terms of themes, characterization and plot. This is what makes it such a great series because you can re-watch it many times over and notice something new each time.

But there are parts of the story of NGE that were either underdeveloped or simply not explained. There's still a ton of theory and speculation about Gendo's agenda for Instrumentality, for example, and what exactly he had planned besides reuniting with his wife — couldn't he have done this by following SEELE's scenario? The story behind the ancestral race, the seeds of life and the black moon wasn't even explained until the classified files in NGE 2 (correct me if I'm wrong here), and yet these things were featured prominently in EoE.

Certain things are best left ambiguous. The final scene of EoE is a good example — we're left to interpret what's in front of us without having it explained through stilted dialog. There's a difference, though, between creating a scenario that could be interpreted in many ways and leaving the audience in the dark about the plot.

But the short answer to your question is "yes." Part of Eva's charm is the mystery and it is definitely better as it is than it would be with a lot of drawn-out exposition. Despite its imperfections, I'm not sure I'd change it.

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Re: If Evangelion had a clearer approach, would it lose its charm?

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Postby CommanderFish » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:02 pm

^Very good points here.

Also, if Evangelion had a clearer approach, I'm guessing about half the threads in this section ("Evangelion Discussion") wouldn't even exist.
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Re: If Evangelion had a clearer approach, would it lose its charm?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:29 pm

I don't think that the show could have been any more clear, honestly. I mean, all of the characters in EoTV literally sit down and spell out exactly what's happening. It couldn't get anymore clear than that.

The fact that all EoE had to do was remind audiences of what was discussed amongst the Comittee way back in Ep 1 and visually show the mechanics of 3I in order for Eva to become "clearer" simply shows how important visual story-telling is to film.
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Re: If Evangelion had a clearer approach, would it lose its charm?

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Postby TheCarkolum » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:31 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I don't think that the show could have been any more clear

Oh, cmon. You got to admit, a lot of things concerning the plot could have been established a lot better in order to make things more clarified, such as the mechanics of souls, the mechanics of Impacts, etcetera.
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Re: If Evangelion had a clearer approach, would it lose its charm?

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Postby pwhodges » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:59 am

Yeah, but most of that stuff is just mechanics which are not of any real relevance to the ultimate theme of the show.
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Postby TheCarkolum » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:05 am

^But the mechanics of souls are Impacts are relevant to the plot that unfolds. Maybe we could have been gotten a better understanding of the third impact if the information were a bit more abundant throughout the show...
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Re: If Evangelion had a clearer approach, would it lose its charm?

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Postby imprimatur13 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:52 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Yeah, but most of that stuff is just mechanics which are not of any real relevance to the ultimate theme of the show.

Exactly. The important themes of the show are the interpersonal, and intrapersonal ones. For all I care, the whole "plot" could've just been a dream in Shinji's mind. As long as the aforementioned themes are there, nothing else matters. (Which is what I thought upon completing EoTV. I don't CARE that they left out the MPEs... EoTV was so good, that the whole show could be justified simply as a way to get to EoTV.)
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Re: If Evangelion had a clearer approach, would it lose its charm?

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Postby Reichu » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:41 pm

View Original Postimprimatur13 wrote:As long as the aforementioned themes are there, nothing else matters.

Stories are and always have been far more than the sum of their themes, so in what way does "nothing else matter"? The vehicle, for instance, is just as important as the message it's conveying -- if it weren't, there wouldn't be any need for the vehicle in the first place.
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Re: If Evangelion had a clearer approach, would it lose its charm?

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Postby imprimatur13 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:01 pm

I'll rephrase, then :). What I mean is, the fact that I had no knowledge of the FAR (beyond Gendo's comment to Fuyutsuki), or the details of Impact-mechanics, or anything else that I later spent hours reading Evageeks on; did not, at all, detract from my enjoyment or appreciation of the show and its message.
Obviously, because I spent time reading about it, I found it interesting (and I am eternally grateful to you, Reichu, and everyone else who put the wiki together, and answered my many questions on these matters; I had more fun talking to everybody than I did watching it ^_^ ); but the fact that all that info was not made clear to me from the start did not adversely affect my enjoyment of the show.

I accepted that these things were intentionally unclear, and so I didn't really focus on them. I figured that the reason they were unclear, is that they were just in the background to what was actually important; that is, Shinji & Asuka & Rei & Gendo & Misato and everyone else. "The cast of flawed and separate beings that makes Evangelion so compelling." :wink:

Of course I respect the vehicle, but I just preferred not to focus on it. I hope I'm getting my point across here... Kinda hard to put it into words.

By now, however, I've come to appreciate the vehicle for what IT is, as well. I guess I've (or my ability to appreciate this sort of thing) matured a bit :).
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Re: If Evangelion had a clearer approach, would it lose its charm?

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:40 pm

NGE is a classic case of "Lighting in a Bottle". That magic moment when the right artists at the right age - Anno & his peers where all young & thirsty for success after some tough years - are all congregated in the right space - Gainax - at the right time - mid 90s - and had the right freedoms and limitations placed on them - Freedom: They were telling a new story removed from any preconceived expecations/ Limitations: Budget & time meant they had to go Go GO - to create something truly special.

It can't be replicated. Even Rebuild of Evangelion - which I love completely & will cherish for decades to come - understands that and is not trying to repeat that magic but go down a different route and act as a compliment/dialogue to the original.

Had Eva taken a clearer approach with more focus on a tight three-act narrative & less focus on pure character work it probably would still be a popular series but I don't think it would be the timeless classic it is today.

And it won't be copied.
But neither will any of those other "lighting in a bottle" works of art.


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