[Issue] - Evangelion 3.0+1.0 & Dialectic triad /Hegel and the Antithesis

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Josdavi/Armisrael
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[Issue] - Evangelion 3.0+1.0 & Dialectic triad /Hegel and the Antithesis

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Postby Josdavi/Armisrael » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:17 pm

Hi everyone. I'm Josdavi and this is my first post here in the evageek community, glad to be here.
Sorry if I can´t be understood at all, it´s about that i can't speak english fluently (my native language is spanish).


About the topic, I read the new teaser of Evangelion 3.0+1.0 and the new content of Khara's Facebook and Youtube.
So, I just would like to share my thoughts about it.

It is speculating a lot about how the Rebuild tetralogy will end, whether it is a universe independent of the original series or if it alone has an eternal loop that can not be released, and why at least one of the characters notice it .

The next trigger to this speculation is the new teaser of a couple of days ago. It has already been seen and it's message (especially in English) is very obscure and can be interpreted in many ways:


Image




I'm going to interpret it the way I see it, since there is no official explanation, we can only guess.


After that,
and
THE END.

NOT,
and
ANTI.


Evangelion:3.0+1.0

in production by studio khara




Can be translated as:


After what happened, and THE END.
The error/denial (NOT), and the ANTIthesis

Evangelion:3.0+1.0
in production by studio khara(joy)




Points to clarify:
- "After what happened"/(After that) can be understood as a continuation of a recent event.
-THE END, can be interpreted as the end of what happened in 3.0 or can also refer to THE END of evangelion.
-NOT, symbolizes an error or negation of events, the message is understood by reading the titles of the previous 3 Rebuild (NOT alone/advance/redo)
- Antithesis can be interpreted in multiple ways. Whether we talk about the original series (the opening "A Cruel Angel's (Anti) Thesis", or the mention of kaworu in episode 24 (minute: 17: 28) about Human beings are the antithesis of Adam, meaning the opposite). And also of the antithesis mentioned in Rebuild: The failures of the infinite are nothing more than a sign that humanity alienated and became an antithesis of our essence human.
Some consider the term ANTI, such as Anti AT Field, which is also valid but I see that it does not fit the message of the teaser.
-Evangelion: 3.0 + 1.0 symbolizes the new film and seen under the theme of the dialectic triad: as a synthesis.
-In production by studio khara (joy), basically describes the study (whose name symbolizes joy) that will end the tetralogy of the last 4 films of evangelion (sorry if it sounds redundant).
-> Important point to clarify. There is a very definite difference with respect to the base message (corresponding to the text located in the sky/blue color), and the title Evangelion: 3.0 +1.0(located below) of the new film (which corresponds to the color red), is another detail to add. The red color could mean a consequence of the previously seen (in the blue sky representing both NGE / THE END and the previous 3 Rebuilds.), A means to achieve synthesis. That is why the red section is very small to the Blue, it is understood that it is a new step, a continuation different from the above (blue sky) that is just beginning.


That said, I can give my interpretation of the message:

After 3.0 and THE END of evangelion (thesis).
The error/negation committed in Rebuild and
ANTITHESIS represented in the 3 Rebuilds


-> will end accordingly in a Synthesis
(Which symbolizes Evangelion 3.0 + 1.0).
As a product of achieving khara/alegría/joy



I put that logical consequence/then connector (->) as it is the remaining part of the message that is not explicitly seen.

In short, the end of the movie will mean an Evangelion Synthesis (including anime/manga/rebuild). Synthesis can be understood as an evolution of the antithesis seen in Rebuild. Synthesis connotes that we will return to an initial state (as in the series) but with the problem solved, but also denotes an end, the end of the problem expounded in Evangelion. It means a new repetition and an outcome to the problem with Evangelion.


With this I can begin the issue itself.


About the Dialectic Triad

These themes of thesis/antithesis/synthesis are seen in the dialectical triad, when we try to mention that, we can refer to Hegel (or other philosophers). Hegel was an idealistic german philosopher born in the eighteenth century.
Of the broad themes covered, I will refer only to the philosophical aspect, specifically about the dialectical triad.
Dialectics can be understood in many ways, but in the contemporary realm it is understood as the movement through a struggle of ideals or the contraposition of concepts that they trigger in their own overcoming (Marx adapted it to a struggle of social classes).

While Marx spoke of a struggle between two distinct beings (the entity that dominates a subjugated being) as two distinct entities. With the dialectical triad it is explained as an internal struggle (whether of a person, nation or an ideology) driven by contradictions/oppositions, and is expressed in 3 phases: Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis.



The dialectical triad is actually a circular process:

Image

el Ser: the entity/being
la Nada: nothing
el Devenir: the becoming/what will come



Sorry again, I only find this image in english to compare/replace the (spanish) chart.

Image




Thesis: It speaks of the entity itself (be it a person/ideology/world)
- It is the initial state of being, it exists in itself and is identified as such but does not access all understanding.
- A problem was posed that has not really been solved, being considered imperfect, and therefore in way of overcoming.

Antithesis: It is the alienation of the Thesis, it denies itself seeking to solve the problem, but only comes to error again and again.
-In this path of error does not come evolution, contrary to an alienation that comes to nothing, because denying itself is derived to nothing (contrary to the thesis that if identified as such but is imperfect)
- It is a rebellious state, it is a means to reach a solution to the problem.
- Antithesis and thesis are opposites but inseparable, if the thesis disappears the antithesis will also.

Synthesis: It returns to the initial state, which accepts itself but solves the problem and is open to face new obstacles.
-It is the final state, it is the negation of the negation, which brings as a consequence to the overcoming. It is summarized as a self-reconciliation of the entity/being.
-This synthesis, automatically, becomes a thesis again. And the future of what will happen begins. (What will come/will happen or become later)





How do I relate this to Evangelion?
Well, we are going to do a comparison.

-Neon Genesis Evangelion (and the 1997 movie) correspond to being in itself, it means that it is the thesis. It raises the problem, and although apparently resolves it is actually imperfect. Here, too, I could put Sadamoto's manga, although with certain restrictions. Since the manga is being talked about in the ending on the subject of reboot/repetition, the best example about the ending is the fact that it is located in the same world and that the characters meet again (Asuka-Shinji)

If we want to include the "canon" in the subject, since NGE and manga could be located, only that both are parallel and independent universes that could lead to Rebuild. Although the manga may end up as it is and would be complete/understandable. However it can not be completely ignored as it raises the theory of restart/return that is being given in Rebuild.
One form of representation in general is that of its opening:


"A Cruel Angel's Thesis"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYZfeY8Vg0E




Rebuild of Evangelion (1.0/2.0/3.0) correspond to the state of antithesis. A constant state of paths of contradiction and error that result in a loop that does not end and is locked up without being able to get out of the problem. Try to solve the problem by identifying the root (NGE), but will not solve it. Elements of rebuild (such as the fact that Kaworu is aware of the previous events, that there are 4 adams or two spears, etc.), may have derived from the continuous repetition of evangelion, creating new elements in each repetition, since each time Repeating may occur something new and different from the previous (whether old elements such as the color of the sea, blood on the moon, etc. or new elements that were not seen before)
Much has already been theorized about this eternal return that tries to advance Rebuild through error:
Image




-Evangelion 3.0 + 1.0 is the way/path to achieve synthesis

I can not speak much of what will happen in this movie, but seen the rebuild background and teaser message we can come to many conclusions.
The fact of having placed 3.0 + 1.0 instead of 4.0, probably has to do with the Japanese conception that 4 is a number of bad luck, but there may be other meanings.
Probably in this way would conclude the antithesis, would happen the opposite to NGE, a species of "A Cruel Angel's (Anti) Thesis"
My thinking about this is the message of synthesis:
Evangelion 3.0 + 1.0 symbolizes in the first part the 3 rebuilds passed and the 1.0 symbolizes a new resolution, you can call it restart or new cycle. And at the same time it explicitly means that it is the continuation of the 3 rebuild (not having put it 4.0 previously)

What can this mean?
That the problem of the errors (NOT), will be solved in this new film, and will unchain in a synthesis. I can not speculate almost anything of what we will see in the film since I would enter in subjects that go more with the pure imagination than with the speculation/analysis.

The problem in question can be a single or multiple, can refer to Shinji's overcoming of The end of Evangelion and Rebuild 3.0. Or it can also refer to the problem of humanity with the angels and the third/fourth/fifth ... impact/instrumentalization in which it was planned to neutralize the angels and advance the human race.
The approach may be different, for example: Humanity will need the instrumentalization again?, It is only necessary to eliminate the angels and leave God in his heaven?, etc.

Evangelion has always been characterized by its imperfection, which led us to have The End of Evangelion (replacement/complementation of the final 2 episodes of NGE), also took us to manga (a world very similar to that of the series but with events totally Different) with its own interpretation, and finally it is leading us to rebuild and its conclusion.

What Anno would be trying to do is find a final outcome to Evangelion. But more than Evangelion is for himself. He would be using that imperfection to do it.
That's another reason to add the term antithesis, is probably a way of telling us that the end will be different from the movie of 97 and Rebuild 3.0.
You can consider it as a happy or joyful ending (Khara), in evangelion already tried to achieve joy in many ways.
Joy can not be considered only as a temporary state of happiness, that depends very much on the approach that is given. Since Khara is the denomination of joy in Greek, among them there are 3 ways (although there are more) to reach the joy and to arrive at the happiness by the Greeks.
The most well-known is the eudaimonia mainly represented by Aristoteles that encompasses the concept in itself, consists in living on the basis of morality and ethics, seeking it through internal peace. In short: do good and do no harm to anyone. Live and be happy in communion, helping each other.

Image
Image







We see that happiness can also be achieved through hedonism, that is, the pursuit of pleasure.
This can lead us to receive pleasure constantly but can become a vice.
Image




Not only does it refer to physical pleasure (whether sexual or pleasure in eating, etc.), it can also refer to pleasure in helping others as the mere fact of serving makes you necessary/useful to others and at the same time you share the Knowledge (whose subject you may be passionate about) so that they can achieve it too.


You also find joy through sacrifice, pain is part to find happiness. Keel Lorenz mentioned it.

"The fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth"
Image




The studio Khara (headed by Anno) will try to demonstrate the joy that will come when the cycle of the eternal return ends and find a new way, and also symbolizes the joy of arriving at the synthesis after finishing with the antithesis of Rebuild. It also symbolizes a message for Hideaki Anno himself.
Anno probably seeks joy by stoicism when he can conclude with Evangelion.
One could use the message of Epictetus (stoic greek philosopher) for that:

"Happiness depends on three things:
The volition,
Ideas about the events in which you are involved
And your use of those ideas. "



In order to reach stoicism, it is not necessary to pass through pleasure or joy in abundance, that is achieved when faced with adversity (psychological/schizophrenic problems, external events such as family, work, economy, etc.) is to achieve the apathy that is the acceptance of a modest and sober life.

Anno is tied to Evangelion, it is the work that most represents him and wants to conclude it in a good time to carry out new projects. Based on that background Khara (joy), in fact he sought to give an end to Evangelion to achieve freedom and to obtain happiness as a consequence. So partly the end of Evangelion also means the release of Anno and consequently achieve the expected joy for him.

With this I do not mean that 3.0 + 1.0 will have a happy ending (something like Disney or maybe the sadamanga). It will reach a state of joy, but not definitive, give rein to new problems. It will close the cycle of Evangelion and give an open ending and the basic "Thesis" will conclude, but not for a continuation if not to say that there will be new elements/problems/events that will be oblivious to the essence of evangelion.
This happened already with another series, something similar was with Madoka Magica, in the film Rebellion the problem was solved in part and the world was "reorganized" by Homura (nevertheless it was not a definitive end).

That Anno achieve this is very difficult, especially to reach the level of impact that occurred with The end of evangelion. Go to know oneself with what thing he fucks our minds for the end.

Khara recently uploaded a video dedicated to Anno.
The truth is that it's a clever way to apologize for not having done Rebuild 3.0 +1.0 in time. The above shows that Anno was again depressed and ended up receiving the moral support of his senpai Miyasaki to continue the project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqeU5a6YgCs



What I did not like is that claim to consider 3.0 + 1.0 as his top work as the "giant turnip" before it came out at least a one simple fucking trailer, when we have no idea what will come, and worse still knowing about the shortcomings in previous Rebuilds.


Finally, understanding Rebuild will not help to better understand NGE / THE END of evangelion, since they are independent of each other for the fact that one was the basis and rebuild the consequence. The hypothesis is that Rebuild (the first 3) happen in a cycle of eternal return motivated by the error of decisions. Rebuild is a consequence of NGE (and probably manga as well).

Image


P.S:
I am editing. I was asked for a lv5 summary (in a spanish forum), so I will do it::
-The new movie will present a restart of Evangelion (explained in the post as synthesis), but will be one where there is no longer the eternal cyclical return that we are seeing in Rebuild. It will have an open end, and Anno the depressive will fill his pockets with money from the fanservice and drink from our tears while he rejoices that we will (not) understand a shit about the outcome. THE END.


Thats all for now, thank you for maintaining the community active, that brings a lot of topics to talk about and bring us the essence of evangelion.
Last edited by Josdavi/Armisrael on Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: [Issue] - Evangelion 3.0+1.0 & Dialectic triad /Hegel and the Antithesis

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Postby CommanderFish » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:04 pm

^Truly great and extremely interesting analysis. You've really given me a lot to think about in regards to the Rebuilds as a whole. I don't think I quite understood all of what you were trying to say, but I got the main concept and that in itself is very fascinating. Not only that; I would say it's probable. Fantastic work!
"The fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth"

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Re: [Issue] - Evangelion 3.0+1.0 & Dialectic triad /Hegel and the Antithesis

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Postby zlink64 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:55 pm

One thing I would say is that thesis+anti-thesis=sythesis can be apply to almost anything. It's why the idea is so popular. So you gotta be careful when applying it to stories imo since it's very easy to go over board or be superficial. Like Youtube channel Wise crack made a very superficial analysis of ghost in the shell using Hegel.

That being said cool analysis and yours is not superficial imo. Like given the the relation ship between the different versions of Eva and all that. The way you describe it really could end up being relevant.

3.0+1.0 title has given me the suspicion that Anno wants to say something more/new/different. Hopefully it plays out that way because it'd be cool and frankly just interesting imo.

You make that chart yourself?
hmmm

Josdavi/Armisrael
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Re: [Issue] - Evangelion 3.0+1.0 & Dialectic triad /Hegel and the Antithesis

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Postby Josdavi/Armisrael » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:57 pm

View Original PostCommanderFish wrote:^Truly great and extremely interesting analysis. You've really given me a lot to think about in regards to the Rebuilds as a whole. I don't think I quite understood all of what you were trying to say, but I got the main concept and that in itself is very fascinating. Not only that; I would say it's probable. Fantastic work!


I know, there are some thougths that i need to clarify more, but the hyphotesis about the end or the eternal cicle Is the concept itself.
Even though there are some words that i can not define exactly en english, i'm going to try to translate it better in a while. Thanks CommanderFish!

View Original Postzlink64 wrote:One thing I would say is that thesis+anti-thesis=sythesis can be apply to almost anything. It's why the idea is so popular. So you gotta be careful when applying it to stories imo since it's very easy to go over board or be superficial. Like Youtube channel Wise crack made a very superficial analysis of ghost in the shell using Hegel.

That being said cool analysis and yours is not superficial imo. Like given the the relation ship between the different versions of Eva and all that. The way you describe it really could end up being relevant.

3.0+1.0 title has given me the suspicion that Anno wants to say something more/new/different. Hopefully it plays out that way because it'd be cool and frankly just interesting imo.

You make that chart yourself?


Yes, you right. As in the post that i commented that, you can compare the thesis in almost everyrhing( human being/ideology/the world itself), and in consecuence with the dialectic triad.
I tried to make that comparison because i think that Anno could use it (finding references of Thesis and Antithesis), and so it's better understandable (at least to me), the theory that Evangelion 3.0+1.0 means a new reboot and the final state of evangelion.
-
Nope, the chart i finded it on google (i googled "hegel dialectica antitesis") and thought that that chart was very useful/simple to used as a introduccion to the dialectic triad.

The only "illustration" that i made by myself was the last draw in the end of the post, i enjoyed so much that scene in the manga. It was a couple of years ago ,i think that was a year before when 3.0 was about to arrive.

I apreciate your comment, thank you!
http://www.insubstancial.blogspot.com
Life is insubstantial
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Re: [Issue] - Evangelion 3.0+1.0 & Dialectic triad /Hegel and the Antithesis

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Postby brer rabbit » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:49 pm

What I believe what the teaser means.

After that-Neon Genesis Evangelion

THE END-The End of Evangelion

NOT-You Are (Not) Movies

ANTI-?


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