EVA 2.0 OST= Kare Kano OST? WTF???

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Re: EVA 2.0 OST= Kare Kano OST? WTF???

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Postby Reichu » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:23 am

View Original PostJoseki wrote:inspired by Great Fairy's Fountain Theme from The Legend of Zelda.

Something something common chord progression.
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Re: EVA 2.0 OST= Kare Kano OST? WTF???

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Postby TheCarkolum » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:06 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Bach's Mass is unstructured, in the sense that each section is a separate setting, and he has little freedom to change what texts he sets and in what order. At any rate, he didn't get to choose the structure, any more than Sagisu chose the structure of Ha (or any of the Eva films). Musically he (Bach) can help pull it together by repeating musical parts between sections, but that has nothing to do with what we're discussing here.


It's not a total cohesive structure, but it doesn't mean it's not a structure. A soundtrack doesn't have to do anything with a Mass or a conceptual album, that was my point, so your comparison doesn't apply. A soundtrack is meant to fit a movie or a series, so it has no structure per se. But a Mass or a conceptual album such as the Dark Side of the Moon has a global overtone, and if you don't believe me you can search how many critics say that Bach gives the Mass a global tone, and the same with TDSOTM. A soundtrack doesn't.

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:But if you don't do it because you're lazy, but because you feel that the music selected is a good fit for the film, then why is that not all right?

It's so obvious that is laziness. First of all it's not a good fit, it's an OK fit. Kare Kano songs fit better, in some places the music is not needed, like when Misato sees Kaji through the glass, it seems like an an unnecessary auditory gag. Second, how in the Earth it's not laziness filling with SO MANY Kare Kano songs and SO MANY variations of the same song you "stole" in the first place. "It's an homage". No, it's not. It's an excuse to add different tracks using the same "homage".

Why not, if the music is in any case otherwise appropriate?


Weeey, here comes the excuse again...

That's accusing Anno (since he asked for this) of compromising his film to accommodate the music he wanted. I'd need to see actual evidence of that before giving it any credence whatsoever. If you can't substantiate that point then your last argument is worthless.


I'm not saying he planned to put the Kare Kano music from the beginning, but can you discard the theory? I bet you can't. I mean, first Kare Kano, then Nadia, maybe another one in 3.0 + 1.0... It seems a little suspicious, don't you think?

What I meant by that is you can't take a song from a situation and put it in another situation because they resemble the same mood, so to speak. "Oh! There's a song in a family situation. Well, let's put it in this situation, because is more or less familiar". It's not that it was planned, but it seems like an excuse because you feel like putting it forcibly.
Last edited by TheCarkolum on Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:16 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: EVA 2.0 OST= Kare Kano OST? WTF???

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Postby Joseki » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:06 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Something something common chord progression.


I remember reading somewhere that it was a confirmed inspiration but I can't find it now so it was probably my mind mixing my favorite anime with my favorite videogame.
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Re: EVA 2.0 OST= Kare Kano OST? WTF???

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Postby pwhodges » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:51 am

View Original PostTheCarkolum wrote:but can you discard the theory? I bet you can't.

I can discard a theory for which there is no evidence as easily as you can propose it.

I mean, first Kare Kano, then Nadia, maybe another one in 3.0 + 1.0... It seems a little suspicious, don't you think?

What's suspicious? He wanted to do that; end of. What I was saying is that he would not have compromised or adjusted the films themselves to fit the music, which you had previously suggested.
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Re: EVA 2.0 OST= Kare Kano OST? WTF???

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Postby robersora » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:44 am

Rearranging old music is not lazy at all. Just because the base melody and chord progression is the same doesn't mean that there's not a ton of work going into it.

Anno also used the Hallelujah Chorus and Ode zur Freude in Neon Genesis. He also used a song children in Japanese Kindergarten sing in 2.22. And he used music of Shiro he liked, because he thought it'd fit. I fail to see the problem with that approach. If you're saying that using something old again is lazy, then I wonder what you think of NTE as a whole. Or every new version of... let's say... Romeo and Juliet.
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Re: EVA 2.0 OST= Kare Kano OST? WTF???

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:38 am

^ I am more inclined to think that a standard, archetypal "Hero's Journey" narrative is more lazy than a Romeo and Juliet adaptation. I guess the same thing goes to the music usage in Eva.
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Re: EVA 2.0 OST= Kare Kano OST? WTF???

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Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:21 am

Here's a hot take:

Sagisu's soundtracks have gotten notably worse over time. And by worse, I mean more overblown, overdramatic and cringingly cheesy. His choral work is particularly egregious in this regard. His 80s-90s work is far more beautiful-sounding than the stuff he's been producing lately.

But then again, I have a nostalgia boner for those late 80s soundtracks with heavy use of Roland synths combined with practical instruments. Still way better than a constipated male chorus.
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Re: EVA 2.0 OST= Kare Kano OST? WTF???

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:10 pm

Okay. That's, like, your opinion, man...

I have a hard time complaining about Sagisu's supposed over-produced orchestral scores when A) They're awesome, and B) Evangelion Q has only 4 or 5 real examples of that. Outside of the few loud and crazy moments surrounding Wille, most of Eva Q's score is simply a cascade of one beautiful piano track after another. (The one time he does pull a male coir sans Wille's presence it still sounds subdued and minimalistic.) Also, he wrote only about 4 new melodies total for Shin Godzilla. Everything else was Akira Ifukube's "over-produced" orchestral scores from the real retro days of the 50's, 60's, and 70's. The examples of the kinds of bombastic Sagisu scores you're referring to are few and far between in his latest Anno-directed film scores.
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Re: EVA 2.0 OST= Kare Kano OST? WTF???

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Postby CommanderFish » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:01 pm

Guy Nacks wrote:Sagisu's soundtracks have gotten notably worse over time. And by worse, I mean more overblown, overdramatic and cringingly cheesy. His choral work is particularly egregious in this regard. His 80s-90s work is far more beautiful-sounding than the stuff he's been producing lately.

Yeah. While I can't say that I dislike the Rebuild OSTs, I can say that many of the BIG CHANTING CHOIR songs have kinda lost their initial feeling of "epicness" from when I first heard them, instead becoming something a little cheesier. This track is about the only one that has still retained its original flavor for me.

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:most of Eva Q's score is simply a cascade of one beautiful piano track after another.

While I don't think it's "most" of Q's OST, you are correct in that these piano-central pieces cannot be overlooked. Quatre Mains is fantastic.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:45 pm

Track wise, the soundtrack is split right down the middle. About 17 piano tracks and 17 fully orchestrated tracks, not all of which have the men's choir.

So, yeah. Objectively and unarguably there are less men's choir tracks in Q than there are other tracks. You can still think that they're over dramatic and cheesy. (That's, like, your opinion, man.) But they are the minority.
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Postby Reichu » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:06 am

After that hideous choral version of Angel Attack in the first movie (which I find even more intolerable than "Blood and Guts" from the Berserk Golden Age scores... somehow), things have only been going uphill.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:24 am

I... don't remember a choral version of that tune. Maybe I'm thinking of a different song? It's not the one that plays during the first angel attack in the movie, is it?

Edit: Wait! I remember. It played during the second Angel battle in the movie. That one did seem a little off to me as well.
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Postby CommanderFish » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:32 pm

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Track wise, the soundtrack is split right down the middle. About 17 piano tracks and 17 fully orchestrated tracks, not all of which have the men's choir.

I don't know why I didn't just look up the actual OST before saying anything. You're totally right.
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Postby cyharding » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:32 pm

View Original PostCommanderFish wrote:Yeah. While I can't say that I dislike the Rebuild OSTs, I can say that many of the BIG CHANTING CHOIR songs have kinda lost their initial feeling of "epicness" from when I first heard them, instead becoming something a little cheesier. This track is about the only one that has still retained its original flavor for me.


I should point out that the Outtakes of Evangelion CD has a version of that song without the choir (track 8 I believe) and several other songs do the same thing. It makes me wonder if Sagisu recorded a couple of versions of a song and perhaps Anno or someone else said the one with the choir was better.

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Postby Joseki » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:50 pm

View Original PostCommanderFish wrote:I don't know why I didn't just look up the actual OST before saying anything. You're totally right.


Probably because most of the soundtrack is really subtle and sparce while the bombastic battle music tend to be easily remebered. This probably works better than this in the movie but I'm pretty sure that the viewer remembers only the latter. I have the OST too and I easily forget most of the non battle tracks.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:47 pm

The piano tracks become very noticeable after you rewatch episode 24 and experience their absence. You get to the scene where Kaworu and Shinji hang out for the night, and your mind is like "0 out of 10, needs more pianos."
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