Star Wars

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Postby FrDougal9000 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:10 am

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:The criticisms here involve Disney constantly being unaware of the visions of the directors they hire. This shouldn't even be a thing that happens this often since this is a movie business, and producers supposedly watch at least some the filmography of the directors they hire. I mean, three extensive, narrative-altering reshoots from the same studio within the span of three years. It's almost as though they've forgotten how to recruit filmmakers.

...This is happening way too consistently to just be standard missteps in an established film studio assembling a crew.

If I were to guess, I'd wager that some of the higher-ups in this studio have little to no experience with how the film industry is run or how one is supposed to make films, owing to the fact that they came into their current job after having left a completely different industry. This may sound baffling but (to use a comparison) some of the world's biggest video game companies have been run by people with little to no prior experience in the gaming industry.

John Riccitiello, President of Electronic Arts from 1997-2004 and then its CEO from 2007-2013, came into Electronic Arts after 15-odd years of working in consumer products. His two most recent jobs beforehand were in selling sports equipment and working at a bakery. Meanwhile, Reggie Fils-Aimé; chief executive officer of Nintendo of America and president of that division for the previous fifteen; gained most of his business experience from working in the marketing division of food and drink business (Pizza Hut, Guinness...).

Those industries offer these executives and marketing people some idea of how the business should be run, but they fail to grasp that whatever works in packaged goods might not necessarily work for video games (and considering the number of business mistakes the AAA gaming industry has made over the last few years, a lot of people running these big companies simply don't know what they're doing). I imagine there's a similar situation going on at Disney, if not one or two other places.Such as the White House.

A couple of major execs likely came into this business from somewhere completely different, such as golfing or beachwear manufacturing, and therefore don't have a great understanding of how film-making as a business, and that might be why we keep seeing major re-shoots, director changes and a general misuse of the talent they've acquired. It's not a calculated plan, it's just sheer incompetence.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:09 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Auteur theory doesn't belong in these movies. They're just like the Star Wars novels, or series genre fiction generally.

Oh, I understand that. I honestly wouldn't mind if Disney simply hired Brett Ratner to "yes man" his way through all of these movies. At least then I would know not to have any expectations. I'm just still wondering why Disney hasn't done that yet.
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Postby Sachi » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:38 pm

Ron Howard has been confirmed to finish directing the film, which I think is a solid choice. He has the chops and the versatility for me to trust that he'll deliver the film the Star Wars story group wants to have made.

Again, I don't see a huge reason to freak out about this development. People freaked out about the Rogue One reshoots last year, and yeah, a lot of the changes were obvious, but it was still a fan-freaking-tastic film and it really tickled my obsession for lore-building. I've no doubt this film will be passable in those regards as well, even if it does end up suffering due to this. I'm by no means crossing my fingers for the best Star Wars movie of all time, but I really doubt this is going to make it the worst Star Wars movie of all time (that spot is reserved for Ep II).

But that's coming from someone who is highly into both animated series and some of the canon novels, and I also have SW merch all over the house, so my opinion may be disregarded as fanatic. I'll eat up anything Star Wars, really.
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Postby C.T.1290 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:48 pm

I've been a Star Wars fan since I was a wee little lad. I remember first watching A New Hope at my cousin's place way back then.

I also remember the hype when episode I came out in theaters, and III was probably my biggest one at the time. The anticipation of the long awaited story of how Anakin became Darth Vader and the Empire's rise to power had finally paid off, and was a real treat. At long last, the saga was completed.

And when The Force Awakens was announced, I was aboard the hype train once more. Since it was a sequel series, we had no way of knowing what will happen next. I knew there was possibility that something bad might happen to one of the main characters. I still could not believe what happened to Han Solo. At the end of the film, I was elated that Rey had finally found Luke Skywalker, and it left me in anticipation of what will happen next.

I remember a lot of their merchandise from back then up to now. All the cool Lego sets I see in stores,(like the old pod racer set I used to have and the more screen accurate one I saw on display) these cross section books where it shows all the insides of the vehicles and structures, the visual dictionaries, the comic books, and the action figures. Ahhh, the good times.

And when I saw ep. VII and Rouge One in theaters, I saw some guys dressed as Stormtroopers and Mandalorians. It was pretty cool to see.

I'm excited for the next Star Wars films to come out. The trailer seems so ambiguous, and it leaves you wondering what will happen next, like if Rey is the last Jedi, or what Luke ment when he said "it's time for Jedi to end". Ohh, I'm so anticipated.

Sachi How bad was ep. II?
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Postby Gob Hobblin » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:49 pm

Answer to something Chuckman posted a while ago, but I think the bigger issue with these films is that Disney is taking a much tighter control over Star Wars than Lucasfilm ever had. Remember, Lucasfilm is the company that said, 'Make your fan films! We love them, as long as you don't make money on them!' Disney is the company that lobbied for a change in patent laws so it could continue to hold onto their license to characters for as long as possible (and succeeded).

Disney will continue to pump out Star Wars films as long as they can make a red cent on them, and they'll do it to a very specific and exact formula that they know will make money. They will be hesitant to take the kinds of risks you saw in the EU (which produced a lot of bad decisions, but also gave us some AMAZING stories), and that could cause the brand to stagnate.
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Postby El Squibbonator » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:25 pm

That's why I'm always nervous about Disney's next big acquisition. They do this to everything they touch.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:36 pm

What is there to be nervous about?

It's not like Star Wars was churning out great works of cinematic beauty or stirring emotional art before Disney acquired them though. Nor is it like Star Wars has ever really gone away except for a little while in the early 90s. Star Wars has always been a cash cow & little more. All the worthwhile things Star Wars in the past decade have just been pieces of merchandise like a solid video game every once in a while. I was born in the mid 80s & I'd argue there still hasn't been a legitimately good Star Wars movie made in my lifetime but the ones that come closest have been made recently since Disney acquired the universe. Still, 30+ years of piss poor films hasn't slowed down the merchandising juggernaut that is Star Wars nor has it halted the world from introducing a new generation to the world.

What makes the Star Wars universe stay alive is it's a playground. It's not a universe where you tell deep, nihilistic stories akin to Ingmar Bergman (though people have tried & it always blows), it's a universe where kids fall in love with cute creatures like Ewoks, cheer the good guys in light colors taking down the baddies in dark colors & dress up as Darth Vader (a murderer but who cares anymore) & frolic around swinging a red sword. The Star Wars universe is perfect for Disney. Sure, some of those fans grow up & carry an unhealthy fixation on making a kids story a dark, adult world - which sadly for most people adult does not mean intellectual ideas but more "I want an R rated Star Wars with tits & blood" - but it was never meant for that. It was meant for toys. It was a world of childish imagination.

Being at Disney, sure they're a corporation & it's easy to be super cynical about how they recycle the same things over & over again but my friends 7-year-old niece goes ga-ga every time she gets a new Star Wars toy & that's a joy to behold. That's who Star Wars is truly made for. Kids. And each generation is probably going to have their own version of that same saga & to each generation that era of Star Wars is going to be the best era.

Star Wars is never going to fade away. It never has. And if Star Wars survived the Star Wars Christmas Special, that weird fucking Ewoks cartoon & the prequels it will survive well into the future.

As for the films Disney will keep churning out, well by the law of averages at some point they'll luck into making a Star Wars movie that is truly fantastic. Even X-Men, the shittiest never ending franchise of all time has gotten it right twice (First Class & Logan, all the other X-Men movies are garbage, don't @ me). This law of averages applies to whatever else they churn out Star Wars whether it be books, games or TV shows (I've heard the one currently airing is pretty good). Most of the stuff LucasFilms made was garbage too I bet but they occasionally got lucky. So will Disney.

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Postby movieartman » Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:35 pm

Last Jedi behind the scenes video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye6GCY_vqYk

The continual use of practical effects look great & is much appreciated, Kylo's scar looks better then in the teaser trailer.

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Postby Tankred » Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:28 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:
Being at Disney, sure they're a corporation & it's easy to be super cynical about how they recycle the same things over & over again but my friends 7-year-old niece goes ga-ga every time she gets a new Star Wars toy & that's a joy to behold. That's who Star Wars is truly made for. Kids. And each generation is probably going to have their own version of that same saga & to each generation that era of Star Wars is going to be the best era.


Star Wars has massive appeal to children, there's no denying that, I was a fan since I was small. I don't care about Disney's Star Wars, by all means they can turn it into a Disney channel extravaganza for tots, but it's worrying when people my age and older are eating this regurgitation too.

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Postby Sachi » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:20 pm

What about it is worrying? Is it indicative of intellectual laziness on the part of the audience? Is enjoying Star Wars as an adult a symptom of something wrong with our culture? Is this the end times?

Personally, I feel this is the first Star Wars to appeal to my generation (and I'm 24 now). OT was before my time, and I was too young to get the most out of the prequels. This is the first time I've been aboard the hype train between movies, and to get excited about the non-film stuff coming out like books, tv shows and merch. I shower my puppy in Star Wars dog toys whenever I can. It's also a great thing to share with my parents, since they both grew up with the original trilogy; Star Wars brings our family together. I am basically Gendo'sPapa's 7 year old niece.
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Postby Tankred » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:34 am

View Original PostSachi wrote:What about it is worrying? Is it indicative of intellectual laziness on the part of the audience? Is enjoying Star Wars as an adult a symptom of something wrong with our culture? Is this the end times?

Personally, I feel this is the first Star Wars to appeal to my generation (and I'm 24 now). OT was before my time, and I was too young to get the most out of the prequels. This is the first time I've been aboard the hype train between movies, and to get excited about the non-film stuff coming out like books, tv shows and merch. I shower my puppy in Star Wars dog toys whenever I can. It's also a great thing to share with my parents, since they both grew up with the original trilogy; Star Wars brings our family together. I am basically Gendo'sPapa's 7 year old niece.


There's nothing wrong with enjoying Star Wars, but there has to be a line drawn between Disney Star Wars and Star Wars. Watching grown men who hated the prequels feel elated that they think "Star Wars is back" is disconcerting, TFA actively tries to be like the OT in such blatant fashion that it feels like I'm watching an AU gundam trying to copy Universal Century Gundam's storyline (see: Wing, SEED, Destiny, second season 00), these guys should want an out and out sequel, not stripped down Original Trilogy, it's insulting (Here's hoping they don't keep to the OT formula and maybe actually produce more content like Rogue One). TFA lacks many of the hallmarks of what Star Wars was, I'm not trying to invoke no true scotsman here, but TFA was incredibly poor at establishing itself, this was barebones worldbuilding, no risk taking at all, the one thing that George Lucas was incredibly strong at was worldbuilding, it graces even the prequels and was part of why they were able to establish so much EU, good or bad for those titles like the OT before them.

Since we're both of a similar age, I find it interesting that you've got that angle on it, because I distinctly remember how enraptured I became with Star Wars because my family loved the original trilogy, I remember how excited I used to get for game releases, the fact books and the animated series back in the early 2000's. I was a dyed in the wool star wars fan and there was no real generational gap for me, because my father got me into it and I watched and played a lot of star wars in the company of him.

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Postby Joseki » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:25 am

View Original Postmovieartman wrote:Last Jedi behind the scenes video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye6GCY_vqYk

The continual use of practical effects look great & is much appreciated, Kylo's scar looks better then in the teaser trailer.


I'm trying my best to be as spoiler free as possible this time (I knew basically everything about Episode 7 before the release) and I got a lot of Empire's vibes from this video. I just hope it's not a clear copy of it like Episode 7 was a copy of Star Wars.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:37 am

I, personally, cannot be bothered with whether or not they include practical effects. At this point even that is a calculated move by the studio to profit off of nostalgia over good story telling.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:32 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I, personally, cannot be bothered with whether or not they include practical effects. At this point even that is a calculated move by the studio to profit off of nostalgia over good story telling.

It's most likely literally calculated by some statistician to get the optimal mix of practical and CGI to profit ratio. Everything can be made into a formula if you have the patience to comb through shit tons of data.
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Postby Joseki » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:34 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I, personally, cannot be bothered with whether or not they include practical effects. At this point even that is a calculated move by the studio to profit off of nostalgia over good story telling.


Pratical effects are first of all a marketing stunt in response to the huge critics at the prequels for the CGI (Mr. Plinkett's reviews are pop culture basically).
However if the movies are good I'll gladly spend some money for the ticktets.
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Postby Tankred » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:46 am

View Original PostJoseki wrote:Pratical effects are first of all a marketing stunt in response to the huge critics at the prequels for the CGI (Mr. Plinkett's reviews are pop culture basically).
However if the movies are good I'll gladly spend some money for the ticktets.


After RLM's review of TFA and then their response to Rogue One, It kind of felt like they were just intentionally shilling TFA even though it contained everything they're shitting on Rogue One for, which might I add is largely superficial. I wish people would watch the prequels thoroughly and make up their own minds on these films instead of feeding off of RLM's showmanship, but maybe I'm wrong, as critics are about as straight as a dogs hind leg in terms of their tastes.

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Postby Sachi » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:35 pm

View Original PostTankred wrote:Since we're both of a similar age, I find it interesting that you've got that angle on it, because I distinctly remember how enraptured I became with Star Wars because my family loved the original trilogy, I remember how excited I used to get for game releases, the fact books and the animated series back in the early 2000's. I was a dyed in the wool star wars fan and there was no real generational gap for me, because my father got me into it and I watched and played a lot of star wars in the company of him.

Of course, I'd been a fan of Star Wars before the sequels. I used to watch the OT on VHS with my dad until the cassette wore out. What I mean is being present and attentitive over the course of an ongoing saga, as I was too young to be actively involved from 1999 to 2005 during the prequels (would have been ages 4-11); had I been three or so years older things might have been different. So, less a generational gap, and moreso about being around to watch things unfold. I want to experience a similar feeling of shock over a twist like what was in ESB (hopefully not too similar a twist; I have faith in Rian Johnson as a storyteller) as well as getting involved in the mysteries between films (who is Rey, what's up with Snoke, what has Luke been up to, etc.). It's exciting to be in the middle of the hype and speculation. Similar to Eva and Rebuild, although hopefully with less time in between. Before the sequels, all I really cared about were the films and some of the video games, though. This resurgence has gotten me interested in not only new canon stuff, but the old canon as well (Heir to the Empire, Old Republic era). I also think Rogue One is the best film to come out of Star Wars since arguably the original trilogy (ROTS is roughly equivalent rank, but for different reasons).
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Postby Tankred » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:16 pm

I appreciate your reasoning and optimism for the future of Star Wars, my views are noticeably bleaker. However, by all intents I hope that you're right about this, and we get something more in the calibre of at least Rogue One.

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Postby movieartman » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:29 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:This resurgence has gotten me interested in not only new canon stuff, but the old canon as well (Heir to the Empire, Old Republic era).

Same, had a ton of Star Wars novels for years but never bothered reading them until now.
Finished the recent Tarkin novel, was solid. Marvel's current Darth Vader books are good also.

I also think Rogue One is the best film to come out of Star Wars since arguably the original trilogy (ROTS is roughly equivalent rank, but for different reasons).

Absolutely. I would put it 2nd behind Empire.


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