All Evageeks should watch HBO's True Detective

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Postby backseatjesus » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:52 pm

I didn't necessarily mean what happens was underwhelming, but how they handled it was underwhelming. It all came off as so predictable.

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Postby NemZ » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:38 am

View Original Postbackseatjesus wrote:Welp, that might be the most underwhelming finale I have seen to a television series.


Yup. After all that running around it's just money, drugs, and sex, the end. Bad guys win but nobody worth remembering. Nothing cultish actually happened, nothing at all about the mysterious guy in the photo, and we don't even get to find out what was on the damn hard drive? LAME.
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Postby Kazuki_Fuse » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:59 am

The hard drive was just pictures/videos that Caspere had secretly taken at the sex parties in order to later blackmail Vinci higher-ups.

I'll admit I predicted most of the plot points a couple minutes before they happened but I still enjoyed it a lot.

SPOILER: Show
Really wish Ray had made it out though :sniffle:
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Postby Blue Monday » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:10 am

Everyone knew it wasn't going to end well, but damn, that was still heartbreaking. At least there's still that thread that everything will eventually come to light. Eventually.

SPOILER: Show
Two favourite scenes: Frank's walk and when Ray looks up at the trees and all the music fades away. Just perfect. Gave me goosebumps.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:07 pm

I enjoyed Season 2 overall. Is it flawed? Absolutely. Almost all the problems with Season 2 stem from Nic Pizzolatto's ego & HBO's decision to move the production away from one filmmaker telling an 8 hour story (or 8 1/2 hour in this case) to being a regular series with a roster of directors doing their job. I'm positive having one person in the director's chair is what this series needs to make it work as they'd be further removed from the story then Pizzolatto is & would be able to see the areas that need improvement (i.e. maybe let the Osterman twins have one scene between them so we slightly care about their sibling relatiomship). The 6 director's HBO hired to tell the story all did a fine job with their individual episodes but this isn't a traditional TV show where a filmmaker just doing what they're hired to do. I really hope when HBO does Season 3 - and they will, despite all the people bitching about it being the "worst show ever" it did gangbuster viewing numbers for HBO - they have Pizzolatto work with a team of writers & also spend the money to have one filmmaker tell the story from beginning to end.

All in all though I really liked Season 2 once it got going. The start was very rusty & it was flawed throughout but I still love the anthology format & think Season 2 was a success when all is said & done. Once Vince Vaughn dropped the act of being a legitimate businessman suddenly he came alive both in performance & action (was all the talk of Vaughn sucking intentional?). Colin Farrelll & Rachel McAdams were both the MVP's of the season for me & I hope both actors get a ton of work due to this series. A Farrellassaince? A McAdamsassaince? Weak link of the chain was Taylor Kitsch as Paul Woodrugh but that was always a given.

Though seeing people complain (AGAIN) that the finale/season sucks because the ending plays to convention makes me question if people are ever concious of what show they're watching. True Detective is just well-made pulp fiction. Stories of hard drinking detectives who get sucked up in tales of dead women, murdered politicians & missing children. It's a part of the form to end in classic convention - the murderer was a weird lawnmower man all along or the evil political conspiracy was made of the suspects you most expected - & not go fantastical. True Detective is never going to end with the killer being Cthulhu or aliens or some occult community that has opened a gate to a dimension of demons. Enjoy the show for what it is. Don't hate it for what it isn't.

A year or so ago Nic Pizzolatto said his grand vision for True Detective was for it to last three seasons. He even joked that the third season might be in the vein of "The Big Lebowski". I kind've hope that's the route they go with. More than three seasons & they run the risk of overly repeating themselves unless they really go to some inventive places. True Detective: Medieval Dicks? True Detective: Baby Cops? And going out on a final third season that is intentionally part parody seems like the perfect ending to me.

So I'll have my fingers crossed for a final season of True Detective coming out in late 2016/early 2017. I'll also hold out the hope for a Nicolas Cage casting announcement.

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Postby NemZ » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:33 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:True Detective is never going to end with the killer being Cthulhu or aliens or some occult community that has opened a gate to a dimension of demons. Enjoy the show for what it is. Don't hate it for what it isn't.


That would be fine if they'd stop pretending otherwise then failing to deliver. Remember when season 2 was teased as "the secret occult history of the United States transportation system"? Yeah, not so much.
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"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

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Postby Blue Monday » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:09 pm

That statement was publicly retracted months before S2 aired though in favour of a more character focused study...


@GP: Completely agree with everything you said, man. All S2 needed more was the singular force of one director. Hopefully they do this for the next series, but it's unlikely they'll find someone who's keen to direct the equivalent of three or four movies in a row, back-to-back. I know Fukanaga and company pulled it off with the first but I remember reading they said "never again".
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:13 pm

Finding a filmmaker willing to do the job won't be the problem. Filmmakers love work. Hell, I'd take the job but I'm far from qualified to do the gig. I'd do a terrible job by the way.
The bigger issue is finding the right person for the job & HBO willing to spend the extra time & money to get it right. I've talked to a few peers at HBO & management is set on only spending money for the right projects from now. HBO is focused on spending top dollar on shows like "Games of Thrones" & then keeping production costs down on comedies & contemporary time set series like "Girls", "Ballers" & "True Detective".
It's why I'm not surprised to read HBO killed their TWO new shows - "Utopia" & "Video Synchronicity" - that they were doing with David Fincher. Neither of the two shows really called for giant, fantasy set, production design budgets like Game of Thrones or "Boardwalk Empire" but both shows had massive budgets because of how Fincher works.

True Detective needs to be treated by HBO as an 8 hour standalone film & needs to be made on the pace it requires & not rushed to hit a deadline.

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Postby backseatjesus » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:56 am

The only problem I had with season 1's ending was that the green paint thing was a bit ridiculous.

And I don't think season 2 as a whole is terrible, I just feel some of the writing could've been much better, as well as the pacing. I liked episode 7 almost as much as I did an episode from season 1, despite it having faults.

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Postby NemZ » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:08 pm

View Original Postbackseatjesus wrote:The only problem I had with season 1's ending was that the green paint thing was a bit ridiculous.


Just as bad as suddenly remembering the set photographer from months ago who was a total nobody and connecting him to a photo of a kid taken years ago that honestly looks nothing like him at all. I get the whole 'one clue can crack the case' deal but come on, that's terrible.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

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Postby Falcon_of_the_Sun » Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:51 pm

I have rewatched season one for the third time. I've re-read the topic plus some other analysis.

SEASON 1 SPOILERS
SPOILER: Show

Regarding the Cohle side of the story, I agree with who said before that it is about him having developed his brand of nihilism and emotional detachment as a consequence of failing to come to terms with the death of his daughter.

Cohle wants to be seen as somebody who reached a logical conclusion, some kind of enlightenment about "the secret fate of all life". He wants to show no weaknesses, either logically or emotionally, other than being obsessive about the job, which I guess would be the last bit of "programming" he didn't manage to erase. Being a detective for homicide and before a narco is the way to be exposed to some of the worst that human race can offer, which in turn fortifies his nihilism. It's the logical "place to be" in order to self-preserve and reinforce the identity he assumed after his daughter's death.

However, Marty is the first one to spot an inconsistency with Rust: he's too keen to be right, he's too keen to let you know he's got it all figured out

Well, I don't use $10 words as much as you, but for a guy who sees no point in existence, you sure fret about it an awful lot, and you still sound panicked.

In that same episode, the third, Cohle is briefly shown admitting the possibility of not being as right as he thinks he is with Maggie, the only character he seems to respect (he considers her a "good woman" in ep 8)

R:Well, that's the thing.
I think I am better.

M:You really think so?

R:Uh, trust me.

M:Maybe you just think
you prefer it this way
because it's
what you're used to.
Your life accommodates you.
You don't have to be
afraid of loss.


Time and time again Cohle makes it exceedingly clear that he's not afraid of death and loss, mostly to try and convince himself:

About the risk of being killed by Ginger and his gang while undercover
"So... as far as high stakes go, bullet to the head? It ain't that."

About Mrs Dolores saying that "Death is not the end."
Rust:Sure hope that old lady was wrong.
Marty:About what?
Rust:About death not being
the end of it.

But it looks that, somehow, those with the "yellow sign"/spiral can tell the conflict, the demon inside Cohle.
Dewall says that Cohle's got a little demon and, more importantly, Errol Childress dares Cohle to reveal his true identity in the face of the death he seems not to care about or even wish upon himself:
"Now, take off your mask."

But despite all this bravado, what happened when the shit hit the fan and Cohle was actually closer to death than ever before? Under the darkness of his approaching death he realised there is another thing "like a substance" which made him feel "part of everything that he ever loved". So he could still love, he could still have feelings and despite having asked darkness to take him, he somehow got rejected and sent back to life (cfr Shinji's rebirth/being in touch with Yui experiences in episode 16 and 20).

The theory of the 5 horsemen is quite interesting too
[url]http://www.pajiba.com/tv_reviews/who-is-the-true-detectives-yellow-king-forget-that-who-are-the-5-horsemen.php[/url]

and ties pretty well with the psychosphere/aluminim&ash observations regarding the cult of the yellow king being about men drugging/raping and ultimately destroying women in a ritualistic way.

[url]http://vigilantcitizen.com/moviesandtv/deeper-meaning-true-detective-season-one/[/url]

Having read a nice Bierce/Chambers anthology bought on Amazon (and including an introduction regarding True Detective), I reckon that the reference to the Yellow King is not so much in mentioning it or showing it in those catacombs, but rather in not explaining it, just like Chambers' work uses the play called The King in Yellow, effectively, as an ante-litteram Lovecraftian entity that cannot be comprehended (and even less so described) within the boundaries of human rationality and sanity.

I'd recommend rewatching the first season. Knowing how the crime will be solved and knowing that there won't be detailed explanations about Carcosa and the Yellow King really helps focusing on what the author I believe was really trying to say (detective's curse for the first time viewer?).

Would it be too much to ask the admins to separate the initial 3 pages or so and this post of mine into a thread specific to season 1?

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Postby BrikHaus » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:55 am

I recently watched the first season of this, and, yeah, it's pretty great. I haven't seen the second season, but I've read that it's abysmal.
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Postby NemZ » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:59 am

It isn't terrible, it's just a disappointment after the first one. Has moments that are great, but the total package is not.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

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Postby Falcon_of_the_Sun » Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:15 pm

Still dying to hear from Sorrow what TV shows or movies are so much better than TD first season...

;)

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Postby Blue Monday » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:33 pm

View Original PostBrikHaus wrote:I haven't seen the second season, but I've read that it's abysmal.

To follow up on what NemZ said; opinions are really divided on S2. For everyone that hated it, there's someone that loved it. I'm personally in the latter camp. I think S2 - being more of a straight-foward thriller and character study - reached far greater heights with its story and emotion than S1, but S1 was a masterstroke; put together incredibly well, thriving on its atmoshphere, themes and Rust (of course).

Would be interested to read your thoughts on S2 if you get around to it though, Brik.
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Postby Falcon_of_the_Sun » Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:18 pm

My thoughts on season 2. Just finished to watch it today

SPOILER: Show
THE PROS
- A great Lynchesque feeling straight from Mulholland Drive and, especially, Lost Highway
- Three good (although not excellent) interesting characters to start with
- Some scenes, especially involving Frank (loved the confrontation with Velcoro in the kitchen and the pep talk to the orphan son of Stan)
- Vaginas, culminating with Rachel MacAdams looking like she is worth 2000 dollars a night


THE CONS
- Too much on the character development plate at the expense of quality. Jeez, who thought 4 different characters, all of whom potentially ranking as protagonists and who rarely enjoy simultaneous time on screen could be decently developed in 8 episodes? Massive mistake in my opinion.
Paul is basically useless and steals precious time off the other characters. They keep mentioning stuff about his past which is just distracting, the whole blowjob solicitation thing was useless. He just looks fake and fickle in his altercation with his girlfriend, and then with his being totally ok with her being pregnant and shit. I mean, wtf?
Antigone starts off as a more interesting character although she is quite directionless. What is she trying to get? What is she fighting for? What's all that mentioning to Ray of her being abused as a child or teenager so late in the show? As if we had known about Cohle's dead daughter in ep 7 rather than 1.
Her falling for Velcoro felt really fabricated and coming out of nowhere to me.
The authors did a better job with Ray and Frank, I've especially liked the latter. His story seemed the most interesting and his struggle was well summarised in that "sometimes your worst self is your best self".

- fucking Ben Caspere: I can't reconciliate the zero air-time he gets vs his importance in everything, the fact that he's continuously mentioned. He's fucking Laura Palmer to the power of ten.

- Ani and Velcoro falling for each other (and having a baby!): just so bad, so impromptu, so gratuitous

- the ending: the way the Russians get ambushed seems a little naive. Lenny knifing the high-ranking police officer is an anti-Deus Ex Machina worth of the cheapest moments of 24. I thought Velcoro was trying to hide the money and that the message to his sone would have included instructions on how to find it. But I guess it wasn't the case.

- the actual plot of the crimes: it seemed a bit too much on the "we deliberately don't want you to follow it" side of things

- the dichotomy of the plot and the main characters. Frank and his stuff on one side, the other three on the other with Velcoro being a rather weak link between the two worlds and Paul, imo, being rather useless. I think it should have been balanced better.

All in all, quite a let down but still watchable. 6/10?

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Postby movieartman » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:09 pm

Ideas for other seasons guys?
SPOILER: Show
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:39 pm

Seeing as HBO just killed two of David Fincher's TV projects during production for costing too much I doubt Fincher would be ready to jump on an HBO project-for-hire anytime soon.

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Postby movieartman » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:03 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Seeing as HBO just killed two of David Fincher's TV projects during production for costing too much I doubt Fincher would be ready to jump on an HBO project-for-hire anytime soon.

Damn... that sucks man.
http://deadline.com/2015/08/utopia-davi ... 201495743/
Sounds like a cool project too.

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Re: All Evageeks should watch HBO's True Detective

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Postby movieartman » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:28 am

Mahershala Ali in early talks for S3.


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