C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Re: What are some of the good traits you can say about Asuka?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Thu May 18, 2017 9:33 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:Remember the episode Asuka come home early from her date? She found Shinji practicing his cello and complimented on his playing. This was also the episode they later kissed. I believe this is the one episode were they connected the closest.

Yeah, that's true. It's​ too bad that things spiralled downwards after that kiss fiasco, where Shinji didn't put his arms around Asuka, which many people believed to be another part of her problems. And it's also where the two of them drifted further apart.

But I think that part of Asuka complimenting Shinji on his cello playing could show that she can be friendly to people if she wants to. She is friends with Hikari, so why couldn't she be that way with Shinji more often as well?
That's what I liked to see more of.
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Re: What are some of the good traits you can say about Asuka?

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Postby Reichu » Fri May 19, 2017 12:54 am

Episode 10, where she helps him with his homework (and teases him more gently than usual), shows a positive side of her, as well.
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Re: What are some of the good traits you can say about Asuka?

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Postby silvermoonlight » Fri May 19, 2017 1:45 am

She does try to invite Rei to Misato's party in episode 12 when she's promoted though Rei doesn't come but at the end of the episode she purposely picks a Ramen place because she knows Misato has money issues and so Rei can join as she doesn't like eating meat.
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Re: What are some of the good traits you can say about Asuka?

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Postby peripateia » Fri May 19, 2017 1:50 am

It's simply impossible not to admire someone who fights to the end, and gives everything she's got.

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Re: What are some of the good traits you can say about Asuka?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Fri May 19, 2017 4:25 pm

View Original Postperipateia wrote:It's simply impossible not to admire someone who fights to the end, and gives everything she's got.

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I was actually proud of Asuka when she realized her mother had been inside her EVA all along. And​ that fight was her shining moment. It's too bad that she went down the way she did during her final Battle. It's a terrible way for her to go. :(
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Re: What are some of the good traits you can say about Asuka?

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Postby Bagheera » Fri May 19, 2017 7:23 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:So what are some of the positive things you can say about her?


She's brilliant and beautiful and proud and defiant and fierce. She isn't particularly nice, but I don't care -- I appreciate her as a character, not as a life partner. And I honestly feel bad for anyone who can't see any value in a person unless they're nice.

When I think of Asuka I think of a great cat. Great cats are not cuddly, and they are not nice, and they are not pleasant to be around. But they're pretty darn magnificent, and most people can't help but admire them even though anyone with any sense doesn't wanna be anywhere near them. Asuka's kinda like that.
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Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Re: What are some of the good traits you can say about Asuka?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Sat May 20, 2017 2:15 am

^Like a cat, huh? I guess I never really saw her that way.

Regarding her personality, it's true that she may not be the nicest of people. But I guess since some people would look past her fiery attitude, they may have seen more good in her than anyone could ever realized.

Gotta hand it to her. She sure got spirit, and a lot of spunk. ;)
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Re: What are some of the good traits you can say about Asuka?

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun May 21, 2017 1:43 am

She's human.

Flaws & all she feels like a real person who could exist in the real world.

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Re: What are some of the good traits you can say about Asuka?

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Postby silvermoonlight » Sun May 21, 2017 5:41 am

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:^Like a cat, huh? I guess I never really saw her that way.


Though this is more a reference to Rebuild and not the series the form 02 takes when it goes in to beast mode in 3.33 looks like a huge cat possibly a lion or a tiger. ^_^

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Re: What are some of the good traits you can say about Asuka?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Sun May 21, 2017 6:23 pm

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:Though this is more a reference to Rebuild and not the series the form 02 takes when it goes in to beast mode in 3.33 looks like a huge cat possibly a lion or a tiger. ^_^

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Oh yeah, I remember that.

Actually, I was referring to Bagheera's post about thinking of Asuka as a cat; you know, unpleasant at times when they have their moments, but I guess still nice to have around once they mellowed out.
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How misunderstood is Asuka?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Tue May 30, 2017 10:09 pm

Many of us (on site and off site) have judged Asuka for the way she's​ been throughout the entire series. A lot of people had criticized her for "being a bitch", or "she's too cocky, and arrogant", ect. And the fact is, they aren't lying, as there are some truth in what's been said. Meanwhile, there are people who would defend her, saying that she's not what she seems, and that she's just as hurt and misunderstood as Shinji is.

So how misunderstood is she?

I'll admit that I have judged Asuka for her actions (and I believe I still do, but as harshly as some others do). But I like to believe that she is a good person at heart who is capable of some form of redemption and making things right with people close to her (such as Shinji).

So, what do you think of Asuka?
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Re: How misunderstood is Asuka?

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Postby silvermoonlight » Wed May 31, 2017 2:44 am

I think people misjudge Asuka because they don't understand the root causes of her behaviour and how it has impacted her emotional growth. For the record I do not condone her bullying or her hurting people in any way in the series but I think its important to understand that her neglect and possible childhood abuse along with her mothers death is causing it and just like Shinji she deserves her chance at redemption. Because some of the spin off manga's do show that once she drops her colder shielded side she does have a heart of gold and will always protect her friends while EOE shows her courage to fight against the odds even when there against her.
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Re: How misunderstood is Asuka?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed May 31, 2017 4:44 am

The real problem with Asuka is that she's more or less a very believable 13-year-old girl that never grew up. And not in the cultural or behavioral "oh, she never matured" sense, no, she literally can't get any older than 14-years-old. If she doesn't die in EoE, then her body is somehow stuck in one of the worst years of pubescent development for what seems to be the rest of her life. Very little of us like who we were at that age, and the ones who do probably repressed most of their memories from that time anyway. And I personally would be very humiliated if most people's last memory of me was my ugly, early-teenage self. In NTE especially, after the establishment and the exploitation of all things "moé" in the anime industry as a whole, Asuka then becomes the seemingly promised moé character that the franchise never truly delivers upon. People who had never seen Eva before (especially in the Western world) were greeted in the merchandising and the advertising campaigns with a seemingly cute, young female with big eyes who's trying to do right in the world by piloting the Evangelion against the Angels, and what they experience when they watch the films instead is a character that doesn't act too different from the obnoxious brats from which most modern anime are expected to be an escapist form of entertainment.

And I say all of this as someone who is, more or less, on "Team Red." Anno always had fun with his red-heads in his anime (I saw Nadia before Eva, which has several examples of this characteristic of Anno's story-telling), and even before Asuka was introduced as a character in the TV series I saw her face pop up in the OP and thought "When are we going to see the director have fun with that character?" So of course I was more interested in her than I was in Rei, even before the character had been properly introduced. I don't call her a brat because the character annoys me, I call her a brat because that's more or less what her character is designed to be. And it's lovely! Everything from her assertiveness at such a young age to the fact that she tends to rage-quit more viewers interest in her than most other characters in the entire series, possibly even more than other anime characters in the entire medium. Kaworu summarizes Eva's relationship with its fans pretty well in Eva Q, "I'm sorry this isn't the happiness you were looking for." And Asuka is certainly one of those elements in Eva that performs that role exquisitely well.

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Re: How misunderstood is Asuka?

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Postby pwhodges » Wed May 31, 2017 5:13 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:The real problem with Asuka is that she's more or less a very believable 13-year-old girl that never grew up. And not in the cultural or behavioral "oh, she never matured" sense, no, she literally can't get any older than 14-years-old.

In the series she doesn't get the chance; but there's no reason to suppose that she won't continue to grow and develop after EoE, as Bagheera suggests in his fic: Ghosts of Evangelion. The complicating factor in understanding her in the series is her precociousness, which comes from her early need to prove herself (though the capability is presumably in-built).

In Q, the third Rebuild film, the notion of "the Curse of Eva" in introduced, keeping her body as a teen while (presumably) her mind continues to mature (on top of similar precociousness). We have not (yet) been shown any other in-universe consequence of this to justify it, so at present the evidence is that this is purely a marketing gimmick*; though why an older Asuka in addition to the younger wouldn't be marketable I have no idea - no one seems to mind that Misato is older.

* Most obviously it enabled them to make trailers without revealing the major feature: the time skip.

As for misunderstandings - I guess that people probably misunderstand Asuka (and Shinji, and...) about the same amount as they misunderstand people they don't know intimately in real life.
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Re: How misunderstood is Asuka?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed May 31, 2017 6:46 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:In Q, the third Rebuild film, the notion of "the Curse of Eva" in introduced, keeping her body as a teen while (presumably) her mind continues to mature (on top of similar precociousness). We have not (yet) been shown any other in-universe consequence of this to justify it, so at present the evidence is that this is purely a marketing gimmick*; though why an older Asuka in addition to the younger wouldn't be marketable I have no idea - no one seems to mind that Misato is older.

* Most obviously it enabled them to make trailers without revealing the major feature: the time skip.

As far as NTE goes, I would actually argue that Misato is used more towards fans-service in Ha and jo than Asuka is. (Misato is more proud of her body, gets more nude scenes, and we actually see her naked butt.) So, if fan service was a factor in Eva Q's marketing, and if 40-year old characters aren't more serviceable than characters in their 20's, and since Misato has been used more for sex appeal than Asuka is, then Misato being older would be more of a betrayal of that marketable fan service than an older Asuka would have been. But Misato is older, so Q already betrays that presumed marketable fan service. This leads me to believe that there's something more going on with Asuka (and Mari... and Kaworu and Shinji) with their frozen ages than mere sex appeal. (God knows that goofy hats, wind breakers, and eye-patches are more prone to niché fetishes than they are aesthetics of widely-marketable sex appeal.) But only time will tell.

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Re: How misunderstood is Asuka?

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Postby robersora » Wed May 31, 2017 7:03 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:In Q, the third Rebuild film, the notion of "the Curse of Eva" in introduced, keeping her body as a teen while (presumably) her mind continues to mature (on top of similar precociousness). We have not (yet) been shown any other in-universe consequence of this to justify it, so at present the evidence is that this is purely a marketing gimmick*;


Additionally, I'm pretty sure it's called the curse of Eva, because it is meant to be some sort of meta commentary about how people never grow out of Eva.
I'm really looking forward to a 3.0 Complete Collection Book, where we will hopefully find answers what the exact thought process was behind this factor.

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:* Most obviously it enabled them to make trailers without revealing the major feature: the time skip.


All the trailers prior to the release avoided showing any of the pilots... So in marketing terms, they could have made them older. Kinda curious, because the time skip wouldn't have been given away if they showed the pilots, as they haven't aged. Pretty weird.

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:As far as NTE goes, I would actually argue that Misato is used more towards fans-service in Ha and jo than Asuka is.


I would agree, if not for the big ass shot of Asuka in 2.22.
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Re: How misunderstood is Asuka?

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Postby Joseki » Wed May 31, 2017 8:59 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:In Q, the third Rebuild film, the notion of "the Curse of Eva" in introduced, keeping her body as a teen while (presumably) her mind continues to mature (on top of similar precociousness). We have not (yet) been shown any other in-universe consequence of this to justify it, so at present the evidence is that this is purely a marketing gimmick*; though why an older Asuka in addition to the younger wouldn't be marketable I have no idea - no one seems to mind that Misato is older.


I think that a 28 years old Asuka asking Shinji to help him, or why he didn't help her after the Eva fight, wouldn't make any sense. Mari "shipteasing" would make Asuka a pedo too.
Pretty much all the interactions between Asuka, Mari, Kaworu and Shinji would feel "strange" and overall it would have made Q a different movie (the final scene would feel really different too, a real shame given how perfect it is).
I believe that Shinji's remark on how "nothing about you [Asuka] has changed apart from the eyepatch" it's not only about her physical aspect.

robersora wrote:Additionally, I'm pretty sure it's called the curse of Eva, because it is meant to be some sort of meta commentary about how people never grow out of Eva.
I'm really looking forward to a 3.0 Complete Collection Book, where we will hopefully find answers what the exact thought process was behind this factor.


I think the Curve of Eva is more about Anno himself than a comment about a (small) part of the fandom being fixated on Eva. In an interview released before Q he said he gave up on this kind of criticism.
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Re: How misunderstood is Asuka?

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Postby pwhodges » Wed May 31, 2017 9:05 am

View Original PostJoseki wrote:I think that a 28 years old Asuka asking Shinji to help him, or why he didn't help her after the Eva fight, wouldn't make any sense. Mari "shipteasing" would make Asuka a pedo too

But from her point of view it would not be hard for her to see him also as having aged to the same extent as her, even though he's gained no experience meantime. Also, she's talking to him as another Eva pilot while piloting, so in that sense they are still potential equals. At the least it's not clear-cut.
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Re: How misunderstood is Asuka?

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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed May 31, 2017 10:10 am

View Original Postrobersora wrote:All the trailers prior to the release avoided showing anyone except the pilots...
FTFY
Yes there was the one with just the CG piano -- but we also had nekomimi space pirate Asuka (August 2011 teaser), and one with Shinji curled up on a bed with the SDAT, and IIRC some Kaworu (October 2012) .

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Re: How misunderstood is Asuka?

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Postby robersora » Wed May 31, 2017 3:18 pm

^
Oh yeah, totally forgot about space Asuka. I was wrong, sorry. Can't remember seeing Kaworu beforehand, though he would be an exception from the Curse of Eva anyways, since he's some kine of Angel in NTE.
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