Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby Bagheera » Thu May 04, 2017 4:15 pm



Huh. Western funding keeping the anime industry alive? Interesting. I wonder if we'll get a reverse of the Hollywood/China situation, where anime studios start to pander to Western audiences in hopes of securing their loyalty when it comes to BD sales? That could get awfully weird in a hurry.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby pwhodges » Thu May 04, 2017 5:03 pm

Given that (if that article is right) the US anime industry is performing well, and against the trend for much comparable media, it could be interesting to speculate how much of that success is build precisely on the interest and knowledge among the consumers that they have gained from the availability of material through fansubbing and torrenting. It is not inconceivable that recent actions against such things are (even if legally appropriate) a well-aimed shot to the foot.

Going back to the list of unavailable materials, it is well-established in current copyright case law that unavailability is no excuse for illegal supply, even in cases where the copyright holder is no longer known (this can happen). This is one of the areas in which some people would like to revise copyright law - to remove copyright protection if the owner deliberately doesn't maintain supply (the length of copyright is another issue, also its transfer to other parties).
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri May 05, 2017 3:40 pm

This evening when I scanned /a/, there were none of the "Nyaa, sukebei and other co-hosted sites are dead! How do we get our Japanese media now?" threads that were there up to last night. I guess this means that at least one of the recovery efforts is now live enough that people are back to business as usual.

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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby pwhodges » Sat May 06, 2017 5:35 am

There have always been alternatives to Nyaa; however, none before - and none yet of the new ones - offers the combination of informative interface, up-to-date-ness, comprehensive alternative versions, and amount of old material that Nyaa did. It remains to be seen if any of the new ones reaches that sort of level.

At present the best strategy (for me, at any rate) is to stream current and recent material from Crunchyroll or Funimation, and to wait patiently (if you don't have an account) for BakaBT to open an invite system for their depth of old material, all guaranteed properly seeded. Occasionally special measures might be needed, like for Little Witch Academia which isn't yet streaming on its official source (Netflix, which I don't have a subscription for).

I am still adjusting my mindset to decide what I need to keep as hardcopy (pretty permanent), as files on my own server (tolerably permanent with careful backup), or left to rely on a streaming service (subject to the whims of the provider, and having a continuing cost).
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby Ray » Mon May 08, 2017 5:46 pm

I have a friend who Torrents his anime. And with the EUS crackdown on piracy, and the death of Nyaaa. Well he says he's not going to be able to download any of his old favorites.

He's perfectly willing to pay money to get things he can get legally. But some things like Macross, Gunbuster, and EVA ( which is out of print in the west I'll have you know) he can't get without those kinds of websites. And he's not in the mood to pay upwards of a hundred or so dollars to import a Macross DVD set.

I'll say this though illegal download websites are going to happen no matter what law or resolution passes. You chop off one head seven more take its place.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby Reichu » Tue May 09, 2017 12:22 am

Out of print =/= impossible to obtain.

A lot of this stuff wasn't cheap when it first came out, either, so "I'm not paying a hundred bucks for that!" is just an excuse. Unless you actually are a destitute NEET, in which case it's better to just pirate quietly than complain about the fact that shit you like costs money.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby pwhodges » Tue May 09, 2017 2:33 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Out of print =/= impossible to obtain.

Not for everything - but there are things of interest that are not possible to find through legitimate channels any more.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby A.T. Fish » Tue May 09, 2017 9:02 am

Well, it's been months since I watched anime, and I was thinking about getting back into it, guess now I'll have to kick the habit for good.

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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Tue May 09, 2017 9:16 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Out of print =/= impossible to obtain.

A lot of this stuff wasn't cheap when it first came out, either, so "I'm not paying a hundred bucks for that!" is just an excuse. Unless you actually are a destitute NEET, in which case it's better to just pirate quietly than complain about the fact that shit you like costs money.

Not quite. Once it's out of print, some internet sellers will jack the price up for both new and used versions to get a hefty return on investment from the original release, the basics of supply and demand. So, paying upwards of $200+ for a used DVD set (not including postage in some cases, see links below) that probably cost $100-$120 originally is a little ridiculous when the money you're paying isn't even supporting the studio anymore. The secondary point to buying the merch legitimately has dissappeared, supporting the studio who produced the anime. And I'm not gonna support someone else's anime habit when they Jack up the price.

https://www.amazon.com/Neon-Genesis-Evangelion-Platinum-Collection/dp/B000767QTA
https://www.ebay.com/p/Neon-Genesis-Evangelion-Platinum-The-Complete-Collection-DVD-2005-7-Disc-Set/49222560

And for those of us who want a dub (oh... the horror :rolleyes:) and not a sub (which can be easily imported from Japan if its that important to whoever), torrents and streaming sites are the only way to do that when licensing for a show like NGE disappears and doesn't seem like it will ever be renewed, leaving a legitimate source supporting the studio unavailable to us, sending us looking for alternatives.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby pwhodges » Tue May 09, 2017 10:18 am

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:a sub (which can be easily imported from Japan if its that important to whoever)

Things go out of print in Japan too (surprise!). There are shows I've downloaded which cannot be bought officially anywhere.

Or the prices are silly. One 2-cour show from 2006-7 I'd like is available (Japanese only) for a mere 54,000 yen on DVD (it's only 32,000 yen on BD, mind). It was released in English, and the early DVDs are easy to find - but the later ones or the Anime Legends collected box set have vanished from the face of the earth.

Oh, and as for buying Japanese and getting fansubs, remember that the European court rulings that frightened the owner of Nyaa into shutting it down were not about downloading or torrenting - they were asserting that the fan-subbing itself is in breach of copyright law.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue May 09, 2017 11:18 am

they were asserting that the fan-subbing itself is in breach of copyright law.
Well, it does involve creating an unauthorised derivative work, after all. Unless it's a meme-subs group, who could probably claim an exception for parody.

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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby Reichu » Tue May 09, 2017 12:15 pm

DarkBluePhoenix: I'm aware that there's nuance here, but with respect to the kind of person Ray was talking about... If any price over $100 is too much, then this guy probably wouldn't have bought the things even if they were in print locally. In which case, "it's out of print / costs too much to import!" is just an excuse for piracy that would have happened anyway.

I didn't even mention dubs, so what's with the eye-rolling? Seems like you're preempting any criticism of your preference with edginess. I can understand the urge, but...
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby pwhodges » Tue May 09, 2017 1:14 pm

As someone who often prefers dubs (though I'm pretty easy overall), I don't think they are a very strong argument for sites like Nyaa - the people who upload to these sites often go to the trouble of removing dubs when ripping Western media (ties in with Mr. Tines's remark about meme-subs groups, I guess), and it is not infrequent that the only way to get the dub is to find somewhere to buy the disks for yourself in any case.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby Bagheera » Tue May 09, 2017 1:53 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Oh, and as for buying Japanese and getting fansubs, remember that the European court rulings that frightened the owner of Nyaa into shutting it down were not about downloading or torrenting - they were asserting that the fan-subbing itself is in breach of copyright law.


I hope someone appeals that decision, as I'm hard-pressed to think of a better example of fair use. If I legitimately own a property that's written/dubbed in a language I don't understand, I should be able to have it translated without running into copyright issues (and if I don't legitimately own it the issue isn't the translation to begin with). And that example is just so plain and clear that I can't even conceive of why one would argue it shouldn't be allowed.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue May 09, 2017 2:08 pm

View Original PostA.T. Fish wrote:Well, it's been months since I watched anime, and I was thinking about getting back into it, guess now I'll have to kick the habit for good.
Things are far less bleak than you're making out -- /g/'s nyaa replacement seems to be at least somewhat functional (even if the demand from Japanese IP addresses is apparently overwhelming it at times), and it's far from the only place to go for your supply, even if you insist on torrenting over other forms of distribution.

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:the people who upload to these sites often go to the trouble of removing dubs when ripping Western media (ties in with Mr. Tines's remark about meme-subs groups, I guess)
"Meme-subs" are ones that where the script (as extracted from whichever stream's subtitle track) is embellished with chan-speak and other forms of "humour" by the re-packagers. That's distinct from not providing a dual-audio rip in the cases where a non-Japanese optical disc is used as a source.

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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby pwhodges » Tue May 09, 2017 2:18 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:"Meme-subs" are ones that where the script (as extracted from whichever stream's subtitle track) is embellished with chan-speak and other forms of "humour" by the re-packagers. That's distinct from not providing a dual-audio rip in the cases where a non-Japanese optical disc is used as a source.

It's distinct up to the point that you discover that they are often the same fanatics either way.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby Reichu » Tue May 09, 2017 2:41 pm

There is another side to this, you know: whenever dual audio is provided -- whether on the original disc, or via a ripped version -- the dub listener is treated as the default human being. Even with built-in options in physical and software players to supposedly set my default preference to something else (Japanese with English subtitles please!), it very frequently doesn't work. So those "fanatics" save someone like me lots of undesired annoyance. The two last anime I've watched with the bf, every damn episode we have to switch from the default English subtitle track (lyrics and signs only!) to the real subtitle track. Blugh.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby pwhodges » Tue May 09, 2017 2:44 pm

MKVToolNix provides a pretty quick and easy way to rewrite the file with the desired defaults. I do that from time to time (it's also handy for combining, say, a dub from an old DVD with a nice new BD video rip).
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Tue May 09, 2017 2:47 pm

Reichu: The eye rolling at the dubs was not directed at you. I know many people are of the opinion that subs are far superior to dubs, and was being sarcastic about that hate towards that opinion.

I also believe Ray mentioned his friend doesn't mind paying money for stuff legitimately either. There are those that exist that will always torrent, but a great deal of people I know who torrent or download only do it for the stuff they can't find anywhere else.

Pwhodges: I meant more that Japan will have more of an overstock with anime than the US as it is the origin of the content we're after. The original content will always be more available than the limited run special editions, that's just how things work. The more "special" it is, the harder to find.

As for the sites out there that rip the dubs out. I simply avoid those. There are a multitude of sites and other places that exist where the video is streamable and downloadable without having to torrent anything.

And I'm not sure how the European courts got away with the whole fan-subbing thing. That's what they're focusing on? I'm with Bagheera, that seems a bit far-reaching and should be considered an exception. I'm not sure what the UK has for it's version of the DMCA, so I can't really say much else about the court's decision.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby IronEvangelion » Tue May 16, 2017 9:26 am

I didn't see this thread until last night. After reading it I immediately checked my usual (non-torrent) fansub source, and thankfully they're still fully operational. Some of their content is gone now, such as Girls und Panzer, but that's for obvious reasons since the licensing was just renewed for the new movie. I'm going to be buying that series next month anyhow since I can get the original series+OVAs+Anzio OVA+new movie on blu-ray for a little less than $100. Thankfully they still have the rare stuff like Gunbuster and Gunbuster 2.

But yeah, the industry is shooting itself in the foot here. The fansubs are basically free advertising for the anime creators. I for one would not have bought any of the anime I own (or am planning to buy) if I hadn't watched free fansubs first, since I've learned from experience that anime is something you definitely do not buy sight-unseen.
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