Frustration with other Eva communities?

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Frustration with other Eva communities?

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:37 am

First off: I'm sorry if maybe this isn't exactly the sort of thread you folks are used to, I'm not even sure if this is the right subforum, hehe. I'm sorry if this just comes off as one big rant too. But I was getting really frustrated and I wanted to get your opinion on something.

How do you feel about Eva communities outside EG? I'm honestly growing more and more frustrated with them. I can still go to places like here or even Reddit, if I actually want to talk about it or get news. However, I've grown very tired of more "mainstream" communities, because I have other things to do besides discussing anime, it's consuming too much of my time, etc. Despite stalking these forums here very extensively for some time, I rarely ever posted. Still, It's much easier to find nice people that can actually discuss things in a civilized manner.

Most of my frustration is coming from a couple of Facebook groups, so maybe my experience is very partial, and after all places like FB aren't entirely designed for discussion. Basically, one group that for a while was really promising and engaging, and another one that was at first just for fun but then got really terrible. I guess I'll call them group X and group Y.

In my initial months after watching Eva in late 2014, I only really participated here in Evageeks itself (again, I only read a whole bunch of threads) and a relatively small Brazilian group, which was never really affected by the more basic anime fanbase standards. Even the more generic Spanish-speaking groups were generally just a bunch of fanart and basic questions, which never really hurt anyone. I had a generally very high-opinion of the Evangelion fanbase, considering only these places. After some time my enthusiasm with Eva died down, and although I still loved it, I became far less active.

In around mid-2016 I joined group X, which was a group centered around "shitposting". It was fun for a while, but after some time I couldn't stand all the toxicity it was gathering, how it was beginning to look like 4chan, or the constant annoying cliques, like some really obnoxious Kaworu fans who would invade random threads to make it around Kaworu. I guess he's just really "memeable". Eventually, around the time it reached some 10 thousand members, I left, and from what I can gather it's only gotten worse since then. And also much, much bigger.

I joined group Y around last December, which was a sort of spin-off from group Y (there had already been a considerable number of spin-offs from group X, I believe), that was supposed to focused on discussion and debate. I was really glad to find a place to talk about Eva in a deeper manner, although it took me some time to get really active, and I have been ever since, almost daily. For these months it was really nice, I could spend some minutes on it a day and have some great conversations with some really nice people. Some time after I started creating some of my mini-essay threads trying to bring up a more specific subject, a habit I had from that same Brazilian group which always promoted some nice discussions, when someone tried to provoke them, despite to this day it barely having 1000 members. I was still very happy with the state of the group just a couple of weeks ago.

But it had grown very quickly in the last few weeks - it just reached 5000 members about a week ago, and more recently passed the 6000 member mark, and now there seems to be more and more useless threads, or useless answers. The mediocre "Shinji is a bitch", "Asuka is trash", "(insert ship here) is 200% canon" and other really crappy stuff is becoming more and more common. Threads which really contribute nothing to the group and only serve to clog up things and get attention away from more worthwhile stuff. I'm not even talking about entry-level questions, I mean some really problematic, unnecessary stuff. I just feel that in the last few weeks group Y has grown very quickly and now most of the extremely casual fans and "vaporwave" kids who are just there for the memes are swarming in from group X itself.

Now, I'm not saying I expect every single member in the group to be some sort of guru with a deep understanding of Evangelion (or that this is somehow the admins' fault, because no, they're great people!), and of course some memes and fanart never hurt anyone, but I'm really starting to get worried about people who really seem to greatly bastardize Eva as a whole and really bring the whole level of the community down, all the "sadboys" kids constantly making jokes about Rei being "so dank" and how they're gonna kill themselves. People fighting each other for the most minor of reasons and shoving opinions down each other's throats. They don't really seem to care about Eva at all. It's like groups like this have absorved all of the toxicity in the mainstream anime fanbases and redirected it at Eva. There are some truly bad fanbases out there which have gotten to a point wherein the fanbase itself scares people away from watching the work. Think of, I don't know, Death Note, which is a great anime (though hardly perfect), but lots of people keep away from it because it has so many toxic, "edgy" fans. I really, really wouldn't want to see Eva get that treatment. The worst thing I could think of a few years ago was that Eva fans were pretentious or arrogant at the worst, and while that's not very positive, it's nowhere near as bad as the random screeching from the "vaporwave" kids. And Eva itself was always polarizing, something which has also been discussed in these forums in the past. But I really hate the prospect of Eva being seen as nothing more than the meh

I like to think that things will get better, that eventually these people will grow up, or simply move on to another thing once the whole "sadboys" trend passes, because honestly right now Eva doesn't seem to be attracting the sort of people it once did. I like to think that Anno is going to play a master-stroke in 3.0+1.0 and really screw these people big time. I like to think Eva's legacy is much stronger and bigger than that. But you know, it might take time for that to happen, and sometimes it doesn't always work. Anno after all created characters like Rei and made Evangelion so tragic and complex to criticize anime of the time. But instead, this was turned into fetishization by most otaku. I hate seeing all of Eva's wonderful characters, questions and themes being reduced or even altogether ignored for some sort of caricature that looks more "cool". It saddens me deeply, because I still feel very emotionally attached to Eva and its characters, to see the community going downhill like this. But hey, hopefully things will get better.

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Re: Frustration with other Eva communities?

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Postby Snow » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:52 am

One could argue that there are 2 generations of fans on Eva. The first one that appeared in the 90's, and the second one that appeared with the rebuilds, years later. One of them is a still growing community, while the other one is a slowly dying group.

You are dealing with the new generation, which is still steering its course and is very much influenced by current events, while the old guard could be seen as a fortified group with their ways. The second generation will eventually stand still at some point when the interest starts to die off again and people go focus on other shows. After all, it's been almost 22 years.
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Re: Frustration with other Eva communities?

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Postby Joseki » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:20 am

Obligatory Paprika gif on the internet:

SPOILER: Show
Image


Any amalgamation with a huge amount of people is going to also have a huge amount of people unable to hold a meaningful conversation screaming nonsense at each other suffocating every possible interesting discussion.
The way Facebook order its posts is also part of the problem: the more reactions and comments a post have the higher up it is shown; this leads to another plague of big online fanbases... Circlejerking. Posts with a certain content and/or opinions are always going to be more popular, while others are in the shadows.
Honestly Facebook is only good if you wanna check out what your friends are doing and maybe the picture of that sexy friends in bikini on the beach and have a laugh at some memes, other than that it just a platform full of garbage*.

On a more Eva related note there's something I noticed in my short stint as an Eva enthusiast: the fanbase it's incredibly similar to the Pokémon fanbase, probably because both are cult Japanese products from the '90s (of course Eva is miles behind in terms of mainstream popularity), and like Pokémon there a part of the fanbase I really find annoying. The so called "nostalfags". Saying that "the original" is better and that everything that came later it isn't is not something bad per se, but saying that without any real argumentation other than "it was better" or "the new one is not as X as the old one" is just not interesting.


*Of course there are exceptions out there, but not so many
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Re: Frustration with other Eva communities?

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Postby Fyrstorm » Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:48 pm

As a member of Tumblr's Eva community, I can say it's... not good, but not completely awful either. It's kind of uninviting and self-focused for the most part, but you do have a good sprinkling of pleasant, inviting Eva fans (a good chunk of those good ones are also here as well). However, the Eva RP sub-community is considerably worse (again, speaking from experience here).

Honestly, that's really my only experience with other 'mainstream' Eva communities thus far.
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Re: Frustration with other Eva communities?

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Postby jcmoorehead » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:58 am

View Original PostFyrstorm wrote:As a member of Tumblr's Eva community, I can say it's... not good, but not completely awful either. It's kind of uninviting and self-focused for the most part, but you do have a good sprinkling of pleasant, inviting Eva fans (a good chunk of those good ones are also here as well). However, the Eva RP sub-community is considerably worse (again, speaking from experience here).

Honestly, that's really my only experience with other 'mainstream' Eva communities thus far.


Yeah Tumblr seems to be a mixed bag, I've kinda gone in waves in trying to be a part of it but I've never really felt like a part of it. I've pretty much given up on it now and actually thinking of deactivating over there.

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Postby RadicalRandy » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:49 am

Honestly I just go to tumblr just if I'm bored or feeling down for the neat pictures. There's no real substance there most of the time.
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Re: Frustration with other Eva communities?

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Postby silvermoonlight » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:08 am

View Original Postjcmoorehead wrote:Yeah Tumblr seems to be a mixed bag, I've kinda gone in waves in trying to be a part of it but I've never really felt like a part of it. I've pretty much given up on it now and actually thinking of deactivating over there.


I had the same issues with tumblr and I just couldn't seem to connect with anyone over there or really talk to them about Evangelion in the end I just gave up and deactivated my account and I now go to pixiv to see the art there instead.
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Re: Frustration with other Eva communities?

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Postby Director Black » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:39 pm

Facebook groups focused on Eva vary a lot; I've found two groups, one dedicated to anything Eva-related and another dedicated to discussion (Seriousposting), and maybe it's just because I've never been part of a fandom of a show this big that I've communicated with on the internet (Save for Invader Zim), but it annoys me a lot, the people in the former group shitposting memes - most of them on the general cliches that people usually mock Eva for - fanart, and other shit. It's not bad, but the cluster can result in some cringey moments that are being posted on the timeline and comments section.
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Re: Frustration with other Eva communities?

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:19 am

I haven't ventured far into other Eva fandom areas only because I think Eva as a work is far more diverse than most things that are a hit in pop culture. The Eva I'm interested in is the work done by Hideaki Anno & despite how large the franchise itself has gotten the main core works are still primarily the individual auteur expressions of one artist. Other people do have their hand in the making of Eva & moments & even characters (Mari is definitely a Kazuya Tsurumaki creation) but when all is said & done the show & films are specifically the artistic expressions of Anno. Despite its long 22 year history Eva Prime (shows & films) has never really tried to just be simple entertainment. It's never been Marvel, Star Wars or The Simpsons where the greater need of the franchise continuing has taken hold over the vision of the original artists. Eva has always been an Anno show or film & that can often get lost in the discussion. Anno is a very specific & quirky filmmaker who just created something amazing that through a lighting in a bottle type scenario became an international success but he's never let the specific quirk vision go (bless him).
And that don't make things easy for people to love.

I find people's enjoyment of Eva usually falls into two areas.

1. Theres' the first half who are people who fall in love with the superficial elements of the show/films which are the giant robots, the cute female pilots, the core concept of the story & just want the easy to absorb classic sci-fi narrative & nothing more. Those aren't the people who embrace the story when it starts to punish the characters & goes down paths different than they the viewer originally envisioned. If you type "3.0 review" into Youtube you'll easily find dozens of badly edited, poorly thought reviews videos about how that film is "faggy" & "poorly thought" & most of all, "Fuck you Anno."

2. The people who engage with the show entirely. They come in & enjoy the traditional parts that Eva does so well & so much better than other better animated more expensive shows (because character & focus of vision) & then stick around & really engage with the more challenging & less traditionally entertaining parts of the show.

I can only imagine that in other parts of the web any chance to talk about Eva seriously usually will turn to "I like Rei cause she's Extra thicc, fuck Anno for not loving her" or "EOE is gay". It hurts because Eva, the show AND Rebuild films are really reaching for something more pure & visionary but it happens to traffic in the one medium that attracts more juvenile discourse than most - anime - but that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

A rambling post of mine for sure. Basically, fandoms are weird. They've been weird since the days of people getting together to talk about the first Sherlock Holmes books & they're weirder now that the internet allows any sick mind (like mine) to reach out & connect with another sick mind (like all of yours). If you find a place that works for you stick with it. I love Eva & could easily never talk about it with anyone but my closest of friends - people who get my love of the show but don't appreciate it on the same level - but I enjoy talking about it with the weirdos on this site so stick around if you'd like.

Also, always be wary of things that start with negative or base intentions. A place that's centered around "shitposting" or being negative is always a disaster waiting to happen. Especially if they're unmonitored. Places like that are all about pushing boundaries but only in a downward spiral. They'll start with an innocent joke to push boundaries, some people will laugh because hey maybe the joke was funny & a little blue humor never hurt anyone. Then others will latch onto that joke & push things a little more, someone will go from there & push a little more & so on & so on until things slowly get so bad that people are engaging in actual hate speech. Not joking but engaging in actual hate speech. If you were on some unmonitored site that enjoys in shitposting & things got depressing & angry that's not really Eva, that's unchecked human aggression & the anonymity of the internet. It happens to everything in popular culture... and I do mean EVERYTHING.

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Postby MuscleRobo » Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:33 pm

My issue is with all the jokes and image macros that get tossed around making fun of Shinji. Did they not understand the point of the show? I wrote a bit saying what jokes I find an issue with but that might derail the thread for people who agree with them. I don't know I just feel like it's a lot more than just a robot show but it kind of gets treated like that by a lot of new fans.

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Postby RadicalRandy » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:53 pm

Don't take those jokes too seriously, they're just memes meant to appeal to a wider audience. If they tried to become more in-depth and involved in the meaning behind the show, then it detracts from the humor a bit. Honestly, I think a majority of people understand that this show is a bit more than a robot show, it's just that the jokes are easier to make when it's viewed differently.

The hot fresh memes are pretty funny, I admit.
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Postby Chuckman » Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:53 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:snip


Always remember that the root of the words fandom and fan is fanatic.
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Re: Frustration with other Eva communities?

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Postby xanderkh » Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:08 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Always remember that the root of the words fandom and fan is fanatic.


What about FANtastic?

It's kind of a "half-glass-full or half-glass-empty" kind of deal when it comes to fandoms. Are you going to let yourself define them from the fanatics who both troll and cause trouble, or from the people who help explain and create? :)
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Re: Frustration with other Eva communities?

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Postby silvermoonlight » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:33 am

View Original PostMuscleRobo wrote:My issue is with all the jokes and image macros that get tossed around making fun of Shinji. Did they not understand the point of the show? I wrote a bit saying what jokes I find an issue with but that might derail the thread for people who agree with them. I don't know I just feel like it's a lot more than just a robot show but it kind of gets treated like that by a lot of new fans.


I can relate to that as I really don't like EOE hosbital meme's because I just think the same as you which is do you have any idea what going on here and how close to the mark this is and how its one step away from being something even worse? Yeah I get that its fun to joke about Evangelion and take the piss sometimes but that joke to me will never ever be funny in any meme....
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