Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Bagheera » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:41 am

View Original PostSoryuUberAlles wrote:But this Section 9 featurette (released yesterday maybe?) looks to me more like a glimpse of a pretty decent movie. The sound really does have a distinct feel to it.


That does give some hope that the movie will be more like GitS than the preview indicated.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby pwhodges » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:46 am

I note that it explicitly says that it is based on the manga ("comic"). Criticism based on comparisons with the animated films or SAC should be considered taking that into account.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby movieartman » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:51 pm

View Original PostSoryuUberAlles wrote:But this Section 9 featurette (released yesterday maybe?) looks to me more like a glimpse of a pretty decent movie. The sound really does have a distinct feel to it.

View Original PostBagheera wrote:That does give some hope that the movie will be more like GitS than the preview indicated.

Just saw this & was coming here to post it.
Just finishing the 1st season of SAC & I love the team interactions so this really makes me hopeful that the team won't be too neglected in this film.

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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Glor » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:47 pm

Just listened to the new track for the movie by Tricky. I thought it was very eerie and trance-like (a familiar feeling from the original tracks) but most of the comments were pretty dismissive.

I've been consistently surprised at all the negativity being thrown at everything this movie is doing, and it hasn't even been released yet.

It seems like all the old fans of the 95 movie just wanted a scene for scene, sound for sound live action remake of the movie and are salty that they aren't getting it. To the point the work and anything it does is deemed worthless.

What's especially odd is how infallible the 95 movie is treated. Like, the rose tinting is cranked up to maximum. Let's be honest, the film is fantastic, but its themes (touted as groundbreaking for the genre) were things that sci-fi creators had been delving into and exploring since the 60s. It wasn't anything new or particularly original. What made GitS exceptional was its execution.

I can understand the skepticism, (Casting ScarJo, merging various elements from SAC, the manga and the movie) but I don't get the outrage.

If this turns into another Eragon, then I might be a little more sympathetic. But I have a feeling no matter how well this movie emulates GitS, the hardcore fans won't be swayed because it isn't the 95 movie and is therefore trash. :rolleyes:
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby silvermoonlight » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:20 am

View Original PostGlor wrote:Just listened to the new track for the movie by Tricky. I thought it was very eerie and trance-like (a familiar feeling from the original tracks) but most of the comments were pretty dismissive.

I've been consistently surprised at all the negativity being thrown at everything this movie is doing, and it hasn't even been released yet.

It seems like all the old fans of the 95 movie just wanted a scene for scene, sound for sound live action remake of the movie and are salty that they aren't getting it. To the point the work and anything it does is deemed worthless.


As a fan of the original 95 movie I don't want a shot for shot of this movie, I just want Hollywood to pay attention to the source material because this has in the past caused anime and video game movies to fail, things like dragon ball Z, avatar and street fighter ended up being jokes and utter failures. Plus with things like GITS and Akira the source material has massive importance.
Last edited by silvermoonlight on Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Glor » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:01 am

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:with thing like GITS and Akira the source material has massive importance.

Of course, otherwise what would be the point? We'd end up with messes like DBZ and Avatar, like you said. And I wasn't implying ALL fans of the original movie want a copy-pasta remake, but it does seem to be an overwhelming majority - and they're not willing to accept any kind of changes or deviations from the 95 movie, even if it deepens or enhances the sliver of the world we were shown. It isn't like GitS didn't leave itself open for this.

What shows promise for live action GitS is the amount of attention we have seen to the details, while drawing really unique inspiration of its own from things like Bladerunner. My hope, like most others, is that the plot is not as straight forward as it's been advertised.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Gus Hanson » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:05 am

I go into a film like this with the same mentality I would say watching one of the Resident Evil live action adaptations, not expecting a great project but at the very least a good homage. Also, if you can believe me, I have never really seen ScarJo's other movie projects besides Home Alone 3 so it would be an experience to say the least in how she performs all grown up.
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Postby movieartman » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:59 pm

Waterway fight released...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90OX7x7KeVE
CGI for the city looks much better, feels much more in the distance.
Tone of the fight & music is spot on.
But I wish they toned down the distortion as she de-cloaked as it was in the 1st trailer.
And the CGI on her foot as it his his chest was really bad.

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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby movieartman » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:26 am

Opening shootout.
Lmao at the people saying the film would throw out the philosophical/societal concerns & implications, we got someone raising them in this very opening sequence. :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPdkKHtqp7U

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Postby Glor » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:40 am

Holy shit that was awesome!
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby silvermoonlight » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:12 pm

View Original Postmovieartman wrote:Opening shootout.
Lmao at the people saying the film would throw out the philosophical/societal concerns & implications, we got someone raising them in this very opening sequence. :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPdkKHtqp7U


That doesn't look bad at all, I was worried that the movie was going to have a corny/cheesy feel but this is really good tone wise and I like that they went right in to the whole hacking thing and how horrific and bad it can be.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Glor » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:15 am

https://youtu.be/IgKGww6sGaI

New clip - damn this movie looks good. Visualizations for the cyber space bits are spot on.
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Postby A.T. Fish » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:18 pm

Just came from an early screening of the film. I thought it was good, but I was also disappointed with the way they handled a certain character.
Visually the film is pretty close to the original, you can expect to see your favorite scenes from the first GiTS reproduced in live action, but they are enveloped by a different plot, a safer plot, more palatable to general audiences. This new plot, despite being inferior to the original, is actually decent, except for the antagonist. The Puppet Master was turned into such a boring cliche that the final portion of the movie ended up being way less interesting than the 1995 anime.

So, basically the movie is exactly what the trailer showed, a retelling of GiTS that looks a lot like the original but with a simplified story to please the masses. This doesn't mean it's bad, but it's hard not to feel a bit let down if you're a fan of the original.

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Postby NemZ » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:12 am

So exactly what we should have expected? I'm okay with that.

Normies can't handle too much philosophy with their action. If it was faithful to the original it would be basically matrix 2: everyone is voiced by the architect edition.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Glor » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:28 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Normies can't handle too much philosophy with their action.


Eh, it's less that most people can't do large doses of philosophy (which the original movie only has handfuls of anyway) and more that the 95 movie is just so slow. As artful and beautifully depicted as it is, most people would fall asleep to the drawn out shots of the city and the long, ambient pauses. Which are some of my favorite parts.

Most people would probably be mentally thrown out of the movie if they opened it the same way too. Like, The Major swoops down out of nowhere after the police come in and arrest these guys, or try to, but they have diplomatic immunity and some other political babble, so you're not really sure who's wrong or why it matters. Then Major blow this guy's head off and disappears. Then we're told she's a good guy and Section 9 regularly assassinates foreign dignitaries. What.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:31 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Normies can't handle too much philosophy with their action. If it was faithful to the original it would be basically matrix 2: everyone is voiced by the architect edition.

But isn't that decision, made both by the artists and the audience, also based on their philosophy towards media?

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Postby NemZ » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:48 pm

Probably has more to do with market studies and general contempt for book learnin'.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby pwhodges » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:32 am

Some shops here are selling cheap copies of the Oshii Ghost in the Shell film as a tie-in with the release of the Hollywood version. It's a shame that they're using the 2008 CGI version rather than the original, though I'm not surprised by that.
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Postby JungFreud » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:45 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Some shops here are selling cheap copies of the Oshii Ghost in the Shell film as a tie-in with the release of the Hollywood version. It's a shame that they're using the 2008 CGI version rather than the original, though I'm not surprised by that.


Probably for the plebs here :devil:

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Postby EvangelionFan » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:24 am

I saw the Hollywood adaptation today with my stepfather. I've seen the Oshii films a few times, as well as all of Stand Alone Complex (including the OVA), and read the original volume of the manga two or three times ... though that had all been about six or seven years ago, and so I am somewhat out of touch with those works at the moment. My stepfather has seen the Oshii films and although he enjoys them, I'd say he's more into the series for the action and the world, whilst I'm pretty much into all of it.

I'd like to offer some thoughts in summary about initial viewing of the adaption.

It is an imperfect film. I found it sort of sways from different subplots a little too disjointedly, and though the original content in the film is strong, something about it doesn't gel all too well with the scenes adapted from the Oshii films and S.A.C. Something's also off with the setting: though the set design is strong and the computer generated imagery complements it, I got the sense midway through that some of the spaces seemed un-lived in as though the streets needed more people, or that perhaps an absence of 'public space' or 'the public'.

It's a good film, if one recognises that there's a recurring feeling of off about the direction of the film, and that all one can do is roll with that and appreciate what works - and I felt that there is a lot that works (for what there is). I found the opening sequence deftly introduced us to the setting and to the principal drama, and the sequence that follows (adapted from the original Oshii anime, though different and appreciable in its own right) is good. I guess I should say that though the Major's nature as a cyborg agent is given a solid introduction, there's a slight gap in the premise about the Major's personal motivations as an agent in Section 9 and why she acts the way she does, and I found this inhibits how her arc fits in with Section 9's initial investigation. I found the cast gave strong performances, though they were undoubtedly stronger performed than they were written. There is some of that classic Ghost in the Shell philosophy in the course of the film, though I felt it's more of a theme than the primary thrust of the story (as some might argue about the Oshii films) and so the depth in this film is found in the Major's arc and the ethical questions that it raises. I realise that the action sequences are a crucial point for some people - personally I found the action appropriately paced, had the right amount of stakes to retain to my interest, and apart from the last sequence, the direction in those sequences achieved a fine kinetic quality that I felt did a good service to the source material. I'm also obliged to note that the set design and use of real locations is on point (as are the costumes and props and the like), and the computer imagery for the cyborg bodies is pretty darn good, though I got distracted with a few computer generated set pieces and backgrounds that I felt were on a different visual register to the action.

Although it'd be more in my style wait until more of you have seen and spoke about the movie before addressing particular story points in great depth, I believe it's worth noting that I particularly appreciated the angle on the question of the Major's background - I should stress to name her as 'the Major' here, as anyone who will watches the movie will understand - something that's pretty much untouched in the Oshii iterations. Though as anyone who's seen 2ND GIG knows, there are threads this story that are borrowed from an arc near the end of that series. I suspect those who have seen 2ND GIG and know the Kuze arc well will be able appreciate how his background in that series has been utilised in this adaptation - and it's significant, as it's paced in a manner that highlights questions about the Major's arc which had me intrigued and interested to know what would be next.

And that's one of the smartest things about this adaptation, as it sets the groundwork for a scene near the end of the second act - and another in near the end of the movie - where we're shown a side another side of the humanity about the Major (and about the ethical questions of putting people artificial bodies, and so on) that I have to admit is beautifully handled.

Serious spoiler  SPOILER: Show
I have to be specific: I am speaking about the scene in which the Major meets her birth mother, and by association, the scene near the end in which the two acknowledge each other and embrace. Everyone will have their own view on it. In the theater, as the scene unfolded, that scene in the apartment appeared to me as unlike anything that's been attempted in any of the Major's arcs before, as it showed a side of her humanity that's been untouched in most of the other works. And better still, in the way it's handled, it's most moving material in the adaptation and perhaps the most thoughtful material as well. It's a boon to this adaptation that it's been included and that it works as well as it does.


Overall I had a good time with the movie, and my stepfather enjoyed it as well. We took the two o'clock afternoon session to see it and there were actually about a dozen or more other people in the theater. Though it's hard to know how many people in the audience had experiences with the movie, I'm inclined to state at this time that it's a decent introduction to general audiences and a sound live-action adaptation for those of us who have been with the franchise for a while.

With that said, I am sad to say that whilst I was writing some slightly-serious thoughts in spoiler boxes, I made the mistake of loading up the Wikipedia page and ... well, those aggregate scores aren't so encouraging. Evidently there many mixed opinions about it. It's to soon to say anything about how this movie will be thought of over time, though in the immediate future I feel it offers fertile ground for discussion of the franchise.


MILD SPOILERS I have to get this out of my system before I submit  SPOILER: Show
If you asked yourself "Is there going to be a Basset Hound in this live-action Ghost in the Shell film", you'll be glad to see that

There is a Basset Hound in this film in at least three scenes.

First, the Basset Hound appears last amongst the Dog that Batou feeds in the alleyway, and IIRC it snags a brief shot all to itself.
Second, the Basset Hound is the only dog the reappear when the Major revisits the alleyway.
and Third, the Basset Hound reappears alongside Batou in the third act, sitting in a beach chair beside Batou as he readies himself to shoot the shit out of some section six agents sneaking up behind them

And BONUS BASSET HOUND ROUND: In one of the computer-generated overhead camera shots halfway through the movie, for about a second a giant animated holographic Basset Hound can be seen off of the side of a building.

Better believe it folks: the film retains Oshii's strange obsession with Basset Hounds. I have to admit, it got me smiling and laughing in the theater that they did this not once but several times.
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