Which anime of today will be considered future classics?

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Re: Which anime of today will be considered future classics?

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Postby Squigsquasher » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:18 am

View Original Postesselfortium wrote:You're a complete asshole

How very observant of you.

pwhodges wrote:While there are a handful of people here who might agree with you, I would argue that the simple fact that many more can get a whole lot more out of EoE shows that this summary is wrong, and that those who espouse it are missing what is really there (not for lack of available explanations, I'd also say). If you want people to take notice of your view, rather getting yourself lined up with the "nay-sayers", you'll need to give proper illustrations of why your view is better and what is wrong with the other analyses.

What more needs to be said? The ending is unambiguously negative. The world is devastated and will likely be rendered uninhabitable by the giant corpse of Rei decaying into meat slurry, Shinji fucked up the entire world and everyone knows it, so even if anyone else crawls out of the goo then they'll probably just want to kill him, the only other entity to emerge from the LCL sea is Asuka (AKA the last person Shinji wants to see aside from maybe Gendo), and chances are Shinji and Asuka will be dead within a few weeks... I could go on. As for how we got to that stinker of an ending, considering Shinji got turned into a selfish wanker (literally) and later into a broken wreck of a person, Asuka got turned into even more of a bitch than she already was, and Yui got turned into a...living gravestone...

The movie is garbage. Well animated, superbly scored, impeccably directed garbage, but garbage nonetheless.

Others, namely NemZ, might be able to articulate it better. But anyway, that's my position and I'm sticking to it.
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Re: Which anime of today will be considered future classics?

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Postby ran1 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:59 pm

View Original Postesselfortium wrote:WRT Rebellion: Setting aside that the entire movie would be pointless if not for the ending that it was clearly designed around to begin with, you're spreading a meme that flat-out isn't true. There was no forced change or corporate interference. Urobuchi wasn't sure how to develop things past the original ending because of the constraints he thought he would be under, and he was pleased when Shinbou gave him permission to change the dynamic between Madoka and Homura. Emphasis on "permission". Whether or not you think the resulting movie is good or total crap, at least get the facts straight.



Does anyone actually believe this? I mean apart from you, essel. 2ch's reaction when this "came out" was varying levels of "yeah of course that's what the studio guys are saying" and it makes sense as the business line if the stress here is continuity.
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Re: Which anime of today will be considered future classics?

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:02 pm

View Original Postran1 wrote:Does anyone actually believe this? I mean apart from you, essel. 2ch's reaction when this "came out" was varying levels of "yeah of course that's what the studio guys are saying" and it makes sense as the business line if the stress here is continuity.


What did Urobuchi have to say on the matter?
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Re: Which anime of today will be considered future classics?

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Postby esselfortium » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:14 pm

View Original Postran1 wrote:Does anyone actually believe this? I mean apart from you, essel. 2ch's reaction when this "came out" was varying levels of "yeah of course that's what the studio guys are saying" and it makes sense as the business line if the stress here is continuity.

Gen Urobuchi in the Rebellion Material Book wrote:But I'd already ended this story once, so it was hard to figure out how to expand it. That was when Mr. Shinbo suggested, "How about a story with Homura confronting Madoka as an enemy?" I thought, if that's at all permissible, then I'd suddenly have all these options open to me, and that's how the current plot developed.

https://wiki.puella-magi.net/Rebellion_ ... eenplay.29

Random posters on Japan's equivalent of 4chan are not authorities. If you're going to take their word over that of the person who actually wrote the movie, there's no discussion to be had here.

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Re: Which anime of today will be considered future classics?

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Postby ran1 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:22 pm

View Original Postesselfortium wrote: https://wiki.puella-magi.net/Rebellion_ ... eenplay.29

Random posters on Japan's equivalent of 4chan are not authorities. If you're going to take their word over that of the person who actually wrote the movie, there's no discussion to be had here.


Gen would've most likely signed a contract that included some provisos to talk-up the project when completed. That's pretty par for the course with most of those sorts of deals and it would be his responsibility, regardless of final opinion on the product, to effectively say nice things about it. Gen's probably one of the foremost auteurs in the industry right now and a peep of dissension from him would've tanked the product irrevocably.

And I wasn't citing 2ch as an authority on the subject as much as it's very clearly sacrilege to have anything short of a positive opinion about it on there. The fact that 2ch sniffed something a bit fake here was meant to simply illustrate that it's probably just a piece of puffed up P-R marketing.
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Re: Which anime of today will be considered future classics?

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:36 pm

View Original Postran1 wrote:Gen would've most likely signed a contract that included some provisos to talk-up the project when completed. That's pretty par for the course with most of those sorts of deals and it would be his responsibility, regardless of final opinion on the product, to effectively say nice things about it. Gen's probably one of the foremost auteurs in the industry right now and a peep of dissension from him would've tanked the product irrevocably.

And I wasn't citing 2ch as an authority on the subject as much as it's very clearly sacrilege to have anything short of a positive opinion about it on there. The fact that 2ch sniffed something a bit fake here was meant to simply illustrate that it's probably just a piece of puffed up P-R marketing.


That's true, but even so if the word of the writer isn't reliable there isn't much to be said on the matter. Anything he says is dismissed, and no one else is in a position to know better, so the discussion winds up going nowhere fast.

Personally I think it'd be a lot more interesting to ask why he made the choices he did than to just ignore him and make shit up. But to each their own.
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Re: Which anime of today will be considered future classics?

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Postby ran1 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:42 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:That's true, but even so if the word of the writer isn't reliable there isn't much to be said on the matter. Anything he says is dismissed, and no one else is in a position to know better, so the discussion winds up going nowhere fast.

Personally I think it'd be a lot more interesting to ask why he made the choices he did than to just ignore him and make shit up. But to each their own.


It only ends up going nowhere if the intention is to reach a definitive answer. I can't say that was my intent by any stretch.
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Re: Which anime of today will be considered future classics?

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Postby esselfortium » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:05 pm

View Original Postran1 wrote:It only ends up going nowhere if the intention is to reach a definitive answer. I can't say that was my intent by any stretch.

The most definitive answer we can get, from the very person whose intent was in question, has already been posted. Nothing is to be gained here by distrusting testimony from the only person capable of knowing the answer. Your intent was to mock and derail.
View Original Postran1 wrote:Does anyone actually believe this? I mean apart from you, essel.

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Re: Which anime of today will be considered future classics?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:35 pm

The faster Oreimo is forgotten the better.

...And Modoka might become a classic. I dunno. It deconstructs the magic girl genre just fine, I guess, but not in a way that helps one also understand it, if that makes sense.

For example, NGE wasn't only a deconstruction of a Kaiju/Mecha genre show, it actually is also a fine example of a show in either of those genres. The series actually spends some time reveling in the Kaiju and Mecha genres before it is deconstructed. In this way, no one really needs to be familiar with the Kaiju/Mecha genre before watching Evangelion. That familiarity of the genre was already imparted onto the viewer with the "Action Arc" (Episodes 7-12) of the series. I haven't watched any animated show within the genre of Kaiju/Mecha prior to watching Evangelion, but I believe I was still able to become acquainted with the genre through the Action Arc of Evangelion, and therefore Anno's deconstruction of the genre in the last half of the show was still significant for me.

I watched the first 3 or 4 episodes of Madoka Magica and ended up concluding that I needed to watch more anime in the Magical Girl genre before any of the material in the show will mean anything of significance for me. So I stopped watching it. But maybe that's just a general failing of anime for the past decade or so. You have to at least have already watched Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon, and Gundam before you can appreciate most non-Slice-of-Life anime titles made within the past 10 years. (And I'm still not up to speed on those last three titles.)
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Re: Which anime of today will be considered future classics?

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Postby esselfortium » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:01 am

Madoka isn't a deconstruction, though, and it really isn't reliant on genre knowledge at all. Even my dad got a lot out of it and he's seen, like, three anime. It's beloved for being a tightly-crafted emotional story paired with some killer music and visual design.

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:But maybe that's just a general failing of anime for the past decade or so. You have to at least have already watched Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon, and Gundam before you can appreciate most non-Slice-of-Life anime titles made within the past 10 years. (And I'm still not up to speed on those last three titles.)

How many anime from the past decade have you watched to completion?

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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:37 am

Having scanned through the season charts from Winter 2010 to Fall 2016, it's clear that Madoka is the stand-out, and a rare break-out from the late night otaku ghetto, though K-On! managed that trick too, just without the hype. Apart from that, Shinkai's movies are the only thing I can recall making it out into the wider public, for all that he's a one trick pony.

Several titles with some sort of enduring presence (Gundam, Macross, Fate/*, JJBA, *gatari) are actually continuations from the previous decade or decades which continue to have new material, so would count as much or as little as any of the 00's "big-3" shonen.

While /a/ is contrarian in how it views a lot of the stuff that's out there, just looking at the mindshare persistence of titles after airing (even as targets of abuse), I'd say SAO and possibly Re:Zero have a shot at the status, whereas quite a few previously hyped titles have just dropped off the radar already (One Punch Man being the obvious representative of this class). Going by mindshare, I would place Girls und Panzer as a dark horse nomination.

Only time will tell which of the actually good series from this decade survive as the second tier of hidden gems.
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Postby MuscleRobo » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:47 am

It's weird for me because when an anime is based on a manga no matter how good it is I view it as more throwaway. I'd want the anime to be more unique and stand on its own. For example I think there's nothing too special about Hunter x Hunter you can't accomplish with the manga as opposed to the original FMA. Heck I think the original FMA is probably better than brotherhood for the same reason, is that odd? It can be based on the manga and have better presentation like Kaiji or Kuragehime but even if an anime is excellent if it's just pretty much the manga animated is it worth checking out?

As for a recent anime that I think will be remembered a decade from now? For a long running Shonen I think Haikyuu has proven it's place as the next "Prince of Tennis" style series where girls in Shibuya will be buying overpriced sweets with the character's faces on them years from now still.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:14 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:In this way, no one really needs to be familiar with the Kaiju/Mecha genre before watching Evangelion. That familiarity of the genre was already imparted onto the viewer with the "Action Arc" (Episodes 7-12) of the series.
I'd only seen a few girls-with-guns titles and some Ghibli before watching NGE, and yes, it was adequately self-contained as a giant robot series. Even so, it wasn't until some considerable while later, and with a broader experience of the clichés, that I realised quite how subversive the Apartment 402 scene in episode 5 really was.

At some point you just have to stop and draw a line and accept that there are some influences from the environment in which a series was made that will pass you by, and you might not backfill for a long while, if ever.
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Postby Director Black » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:41 pm

I'd say that SAO will be treated like Pokemon is now: a franchise that people either consider a guilty pleasure for nostalgia or a permanent punching bag in anime.
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Re: Which anime of today will be considered future classics?

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Postby robersora » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:50 pm

^
Pokemon is a children's show that everyone knows, akin to Harry Potter. SAO didn't even manage to get a react video on youtube like Attack on Titan did.
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Postby Director Black » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:59 pm

I know that SAO isn't as big a franchise as Pokemon...but just because something didn't get a react video doesn't exclude it from being popular.
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Postby Bagheera » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:19 am

Of the titles presented thus far I think only Madoka, -monogatari, and (regrettably) SAO are real contenders. Plenty of others mentioned (Kill la Kill, Girls und Panzer, Re:Zero, etc) are well-regarded, but they don't seem to have the staying power of those three titles.
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Re: Which anime of today will be considered future classics?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:58 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:I'd only seen a few girls-with-guns titles and some Ghibli before watching NGE, and yes, it was adequately self-contained as a giant robot series. Even so, it wasn't until some considerable while later, and with a broader experience of the clichés, that I realised quite how subversive the Apartment 402 scene in episode 5 really was.

At some point you just have to stop and draw a line and accept that there are some influences from the environment in which a series was made that will pass you by, and you might not backfill for a long while, if ever.

I agree, but Madoka didn't really interest me beyond the premise. The first 3 episodes did well to establish the rules of the world, but it didn't do well to interest me with its characters. So I stopped.
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Postby Retro Chocolate » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:32 pm

Two Words: IIIINNNFEEEEERRNOOOO COOOPPPPUUUUU

Serious Answer: Madoka and Kill La Kill are good contenders. Personally I really liked Space Patrol Luluco, but I don't hear it talked about that much. And Little Witch Academia. That Anime is fantastic.
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Re: Which anime of today will be considered future classics?

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Postby pwhodges » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:50 am

Space Patrol Luluco and Little Witch Academia are both great fun to watch - but in the end they're both fluff that doesn't really take us anywhere. Kill la Kill was far better, and we're still waiting for Trigger to produce a worthy successor.
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