Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

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Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby Guy Nacks » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:21 pm

So, one thing that's always felt off to me about the hospital scene in EOE is that after Shinji's finished masturbating, we see his right hand covered in semen.

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The pattern of ejaculate on his hand actually makes little sense if he was masturbating the normal way (hand gripping shaft, pumping until ejaculation) because if he was, then the semen would shoot past his hand--which shouldn't have been covering the tip of his penis in the first place--and onto Asuka and/or her bedsheets. Yes, his penis would be smaller due to his age, but I don't think I ever masturbated at that age where my hand would be in a position get semen all over it upon ejaculaton.

Which leads me to this theory:

Shinji actually jacked off with his LEFT hand and used his RIGHT hand to deliberately PREVENT it from spraying on Asuka and/or her sheets. This might be due to his wanting to "save" Asuka from the perceived evil that is himself and reinforcing his protective nature of Asuka that we first saw in significant fashion during Magmadiver. Here he's once again "saving" Asuka from the perils of the world. He's the new (cum) Catcher in the Rye.

I know this topic is ridiculous, but I'm actually semi-serious about it.
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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby Geometer » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:30 pm

In all honesty I've always thought that Shinji did this to prove to himself that he is scum more than out of pure lust, I doubt that this was enjoyable at all.

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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby Guy Nacks » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:36 pm

View Original PostGeometer wrote:In all honesty I've always thought that Shinji did this to prove to himself that he is scum more than out of pure lust, I doubt that this was enjoyable at all.


I don't think it was supposed to be enjoyable for him at all, nor was I inferring such.

I'm just working with an image I've always found to be a thorn in my side because it's never made sense to me and extrapolating from there to determine what would cause someone's hand to be covered in semen after ejaculating because mine never is--it ends up in a tissue, or the shower floor, never all over my hand in great quantities like in that cut.

I guess a better way of saying it would be that from the amount of semen on his hand, it looks like he was either deliberately aiming into it, or put his hand out to catch it at the last second.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby Geometer » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:43 pm

Your probably overthinking it, the whole point of the scene is to show, well how fucked up Shinji really is.

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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby Tumbling Down » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:48 pm

Headcanon accepted.

View Original PostGeometer wrote:Your probably overthinking it

I'm sorry, I thought this was America Evangelion.

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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby Reichu » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:56 pm

I simply assumed that he caught it, though as I lack a penis and testes I did not worry over the specifics. After all, the animators are overwhelmingly male, and I trust their wanking experience.

Also, in the event the OP did not consider this, Shinji would possess a foreskin, which does affect technique though I am unclear on how it might affect one's finishing moves specifically.
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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby Guy Nacks » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:03 pm

View Original PostGeometer wrote:the whole point of the scene is to show, well how fucked up Shinji really is.


Obviously, but I'm focusing on the particular cuts Anno uses to convey this, how they're blocked with regard to placement in the scene, and what they mean. Why not instead have the semen land on the bedsheets? Why not instead show a stain on his pants? Why this amount of semen on his hand if he was just using it to masturbate with?

I get the whole blood/semen bookend from Ep. 1, but I'm trying to look at explanations beyond just that.

Reichu wrote:Shinji would possess a foreskin, which does affect technique though I am unclear on how it might affect one's finishing moves specifically.


I've seen enough of Pornhub to know that uncut adult males still have most of their ejaculate jet out from the tip of their penis without the foreskin impeding the stream. From what is shown on Shinji's hand, it seems that the majority of his emission ended up there. It's just odd because most guys (at least from discussions I've overheard while in college) never used their bare hands to catch their semen because it makes disposal way messier. It's often easier to just shoot into a sock, a napkin/tissue/towel and just dispose of it.

If Shinji really wanted to violate Asuka, he would have just ejaculated in her direction without catching it whatsoever.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby Reichu » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:28 am

Discussion of the hand theme specifically moved here.
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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby Chuckman » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:21 pm

We know from later in EoE that it was not his semenarche and he was an experienced wanker. Yes, he was simply conscientious enough to catch it. He gave her that small dignity, not that it excuses his violation.

We've all faced that situation where there was no alternative but to put it somewhere lest it fly free. There's no shame in doing what needs to be done.
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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby Director Black » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:16 pm

The situation is unique in this case when you relate to how just because you feel bad for something you did doesn't excuse you. Shinji is fully aware that he can't go back on what he did and he has to hold that burden...all the way until the him and Asuka are alone on the beach.

Shinji admitted that he was "terrible" to do that, but he can't do anything but live on.
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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby ran1 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:35 am

I was considering this at length about two hours ago and then thought it was stupid and my anecdotal reference was useless here but now I'm starting to think otherwise.

In the West we have a sort of preconceived hand-signal that denotes masturbation -- a single hand moving up and down an imaginary cylinder. But when I went to go visit friends & a colleague in Japan two years ago, we went out to a bar and got roaring drunk on banana beer (no, really), and after a few dick jokes, my Japanese friend (from the Kansai region, specifically) made a reference to masturbation that involved grabbing a bottle with her right hand and then "covering" in a hovering motion the top of the bottle with her left hand, and then proceeding to move it up and down vigorously.

Now I may be misremembering, but we had several of these bottles on the table that we were sitting at, empty, and I'm quite sure she had herself an empty one while she was doing this motion, so it would seem to me that this "hover-hand" might be something unique to the Japanese in the broader masturbation process. Y'know, societal politeness, et cetera. Otherwise why "cover" a bottle that's empty?

So-- then I hopped on pornhub and paid particular attention to the male actors (no homo?) in three randomly chosen videos from the front page of the "Asian section" -- and whaddya know, one dude has both hands down while he's playing with his dong. No hover-hand specifically, but perhaps - perhaps, hand number two was down there out of reflex. Shinji could've done that hover-hand too, and wham -- spunkus handerruptus. Food for thought.
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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby Bagheera » Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:18 am

Just to be sure it's ruled out, we know Shinji's not a lefty, right? Because if he was, and his right hand was "covering", well, we'd get what we see in the scene.
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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby Reichu » Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:09 am

Shinji is right-handed, yes. (Cf. cello playing, habitual fist-flexing, carry-over to Eva-01's weapon-wielding, etc.) In fact, I can't think of a single character in NGE whom they bothered to make left-handed -- not even an obvious choice for being sinistral like Kaworu. (Yes, I actually took the effort to make absolutely sure. I'm weird.)
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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby NFWStateMachine » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:11 pm

I hope you enjoy my first post.

As an experienced wanker, I can only speak for myself, but I would not be surprised if the same can be said by other males.

I can spend at least an hour on the same jerk, prolonging the release of splooge. In doing so, a significant amount of love can preload in the shaft. Upon climax, all of the nectar releases at near maximum uncontrollable velocity and volume, being extremely satisfying until I realize I don't have enough toilet paper to cradle and contain the shame, for which the regret spills out on to my thighs and or the convulsions were so strong that some glue ended up on some perceptually important thing. :nyao: :| :cringe: (:| :facepalm: :rolleyes: :| :shifty: This isn't a usual five to ten minute wank, like most males do. I'm sure it's similar to tantric sex. Having watched enough JAV, there is one series where I've seen this before where one male with a visibly flaccid penis (from prolonged pumping off-cam) ends up explosively venting all over a woman's face. This is very unlike most Western or European male actors that often have a piddly stream running out of their engorged third legs, despite having giant sacks, though they sometimes have empty bags as well. It's clear they don't fuck long enough and or they ejaculate so much during a shoot (off-cam, which I've seen in a documentary as a way of prolonging subsequent attempts at fucking without ejaculating due to being in a post-ejaculataion state where stimulation is 'harder' to do) that barely anything is left at the end for the money shot.

Edit: I should make it clear that the above material is not something I condone, but I do think it's quite clear that people honestly enjoy things like that, if not on a daily basis, at least at some times in their lives. "Dirtying" themselves like Misato. I just feel that being honest is worthwhile more than not.

It's not to say that Shinji does this exactly, but his form of it has an negative emotional blueprint rather than what is distinctly normally "positive" to the person or persons involved, as is usually the case in both series.

If he doesn't get his way, ie. people he expects to communicate with him refuse to, he'll react violently and or shamefully. It's the one character trait you can set your watch to and will probably remain the same in the final film. And for Shinji, it doesn't matter whether the communication is positive or negative, he's obsessed with it and will almost forgive everything and anything as long they interact with him. It relates to an overall idea that humans (or any animal really) only have a pseudo-choice in interactions: Whether to vocalize and or literalize their thoughts or react violently, which has been and will continue to remain true for the foreseeable future. There are ample examples in both series, but the ones that are seemingly the most important are between Shinji and Asuka, namely her maliciously refusing to help him understand her, and him immediately choking her. Pretty obvious. Then, as he could only do, the very next time he interacts with her again we see the jerk off scene (actually, I might be inaccurate here and I can't remember the exact chronology of events as shown, but I'm pretty sure I'm right), then after that is them on the beach where he picks up where they left off last time they were having a two-sided argument, choking her 'lifeless' body, for which she touches his faces and shows actual growth, where Shinji again reverts into a sobbing mess having not really changed at all.

The Hedgehog's Dilemma is a major theme (using animals as a metaphor for human relationships), but the binary way in which humans (or animals) communicate (rational conversation or other forms of 'polite' communication vs. physical violence) precedes it as a root 'issue' or 'problem' in the chain of causes and effects. Or in other words, the brain is the problem, or deeper still, the way in which organisms operate at some lower level is the problem. A cycle where it's just turtles all the way down (Mandelbrot set). Push and pull. Who learns or teaches first? And how violence is often the only option to stem or cull a destructive force.

Of course, violence in itself is a sub-interaction under the main interaction of communication, but most people tend to think of them in some sort of binary relationship when what they really mean is, "positive communication" vs. "negative communication", even though those are often muddled in arbitrary definitions. It is my analysis that in a sense, true 'hatred' would be utter indifference and non-communication, which aligns with Shinji's often immaturely expressed and interpreted perceptions and resulting juvenile behaviour. In other words, despite people around him obviously communicating with him in 'good will', he finds ways to delve into his own selfish self-loathing that often triggers his masturbatory 'soul-searching' escapades and other sociopathic and violent behaviours, which should not be considered 'good' behaviour.

So, when Asuka is despondent to Shinji's pathetic pleas for help, even when she's clearly unconscious, Shinji doesn't care, refuses to understand, and ends up violently pulling her over on her back, ripping her shirt open as well various monitoring electrodes that are aiding her recovery (which is important), exposing her jubs, and then jerkin' his gerkin' like the coward that he is (temporarily a coward, though that 'image' of him will always exist within him, ready to resurface at 'predetermined' points, so to speak).

In summary: He violently flailed his second Adam enough that he ended up spraying the temporary warmth of his love on to his hand, until it became cold like his sociopathic and narcissistic heart in a crusty AT cloth (tissue) in a waste basket that is his mind.

Seriously: He's shown to cum so much because it's a visual manifestation (by artistic design and in-universe function) of his pent up frustrations and how they all end up with him feeling and being 'marked' by shame among many other emotions and thoughts. I do like the idea that he tried to 'protect Asuka from his shame', which is probably the case and I never thought of the scene that way, but to diverge from the OP, I'd simply guess that he covered himself with the same hand he jerked off with (right hand). His soldier's convulsions were so strong that he didn't have to pump any more and as soon as he felt he was climaxing, he cupped his one-eyed Adam, but it wasn't enough to prevent tainting Asuka's vulnerable flesh (ie. other people, like everything else that he ever does in either series). To counter the idea of 'protection', has he really ever protected Asuka in any substantial way? How could he when he himself says that he doesn't understand her? Is he being honest to himself and others? Though I suppose in that case, he's always been lying to himself and that's the whole point of the original series for him to stop it and realize the truth, but he both does (ep. 26) and doesn't (EoE), at least that's always been my perception of it.

Also, the cupping and massaging of a penis head can be seen quite often in certain AV, JAV, or hentai where the female is the 'master'. It's just short from sadistic/masochistic where its 'maliciously' done in combination with other 'denial' methods, like squeezing the shaft of the penis with the other hand or some device. That said, I don't think that specifically happened in this particular scene, but it would make sense if it did, at least Shinji cupping his dong while ejaculating to deny 'full pleasure'.

Having finally watched 3.33 recently, Shinji's choker makes more obvious sense and it undoubtedly gave him a certain level of 'positive satisfaction' (because he loves any form of communication) especially when it was released and 'shared' by someone he 'loved'. He's always been submissive. It has to be intentional, because I don't see that as being a 'random choice'.

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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby Guy Nacks » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:27 pm

View Original PostNFWStateMachine wrote:To counter the idea of 'protection', has he really ever protected Asuka in any substantial way?


Image
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby NFWStateMachine » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:22 pm

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:Image of Shinji in 01 saving Asuka from falling into magma after she destroyed Sandalphon and realized she was going to die


True, he does save her here, but it's not like he went out of his way to do it. He was already waiting at the surface, by orders from Misato, to provide backup if necessary. So in a sense, he was just fulfilling what was expected of him, potentially to further satisfy his obsession with garnering attention. Consider also that we all know how Asuka ends up anyway: 'Unsaved' and broken, bathing in her own menstrual blood, to be picked up by Nerv security and becoming catatonic in a hospital bed, with Shinji at first feeling sorry for himself and then finding solace and peace while frolicking with some boy he just met, when he should understand Asuka the most.

Still, I do agree that sometimes Shinji wants to protect her and everyone else, and yet despite that, he certainly has a way of getting people killed (Misato) and 'killed' (liquefied/incomplete Instrumentality) and then in the Rebuild where he 'selfishly' saves Rei, regardless of what happens to everyone else, but in this case he's more 'innocent' in that he doesn't really know he's triggering Third Impact. Hero/anti-hero, courageous/cowardly, hopeful/nihilistic. All up to the individuals and observers to decide through different lenses, when they all end up being accomplices to the same arbitrary end.

Though maybe saving everyone isn't his job. Maybe he has to realize that too. I don't know.

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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby Guy Nacks » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:34 pm

View Original PostNFWStateMachine wrote:True, he does save her here, but it's not like he went out of his way to do it.


He jumped in superheated magma while she was still hundreds of feet submerged without even wearing the protective Type D equipment.

If that isn't going out of one's way, I don't know what is.


I can buy that he was providing backup, but only in the instance that the angel emerged on the surface.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby NFWStateMachine » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:46 pm

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:He jumped in superheated magma while she was still hundreds of feet submerged without even wearing the protective Type D equipment.

If that isn't going out of one's way, I don't know what is.

I can buy that he was providing backup, but only in the instance that the angel emerged on the surface.


You don't have to buy anything. "Backup" includes the scenario that happened and what you suggested.

Eva-01 certainly doesn't look worse for wear to strike a pose and stare at Asuka for a prolonged period of time while being in magma. Also, she was being pulled up the entire time she was fighting, so the 'sacrifice' wasn't really that great. Also, also, Shinji doesn't seem too worn out by 'heat' when he gets to relax in a open-air hot-spring right after. Why a hot-spring? Why would Anno choose that? Everything has a purpose. Maybe what he and Eva-01 did wasn't really that far outside of what they were capable of, which is proven again and again throughout the rest of the series and the only thing that holds them both back is Shinji.

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Re: Until You Cum to Me -- A Semenal Analysis of the Hospital Scene

Postby Reichu » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:40 am

On account of the excessive lewdness in NFW's first post, and the borderline nature of this thread on the whole, I'm putting this in lock down.
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