Oh, "kitchen scene"! I thought you said "kitten scene" for a second, which puzzled me as the only thing I figured that could mean was only in the manga, and Asuka wasn't in that scene. Heh.

Sailor Stardust wrote:He KNOWS Asuka is flat-out being a bitch (I seriously hate to call her that, but...)

♪ Weeeeeeeeeeelllllll...... ♪

I think this video pretty much sums up how their relationship works:

I Used To Love Her.

Yeah, that about does it.

@ Avery: How do you get those little music symbols, heart marks and various other things from the keyboard? DO WANT.

Oh, and I love your sense of humor, in case you couldn't tell!

I was going say something else, that's actually meaningful topic-wise, and now I can't think of what. :(

Sailor Star Dust wrote:@ Avery: How do you get those little music symbols, heart marks and various other things from the keyboard? DO WANT.

They're part of the standard ASCII character set; supposedly you can make them appear using key combos, but I've never gotten it to work.

Sailor Star Dust wrote:Avery: How do you get those little music symbols, heart marks and various other things from the keyboard?

With default HTML enabled in your post
Go here: http://www.unicode.org/charts/symbols.html
In particular, here: http://www.unicode.org/charts/symbols.html

Then you get the symbol by putting ampersand-hash-number of symbol-semicolon where the (hex) number is column followed by row, so 266A for one of the musical notes. Convert the hex number using Calculator to get 266A(hex) = 9834 -- like this ♪

Apathetic Piggy wrote:I think this video pretty much sums up how their relationship works:

I Used To Love Her.

Yeah, that about does it.

I've always been partial to "Girlfriend in a Coma" as the defining S/A song. (Er, even though Asuka wasn't actually in a coma.)

Sandoz wrote:

Apathetic Piggy wrote:I think this video pretty much sums up how their relationship works:

I Used To Love Her.

Yeah, that about does it.

I've always been partial to "Girlfriend in a Coma" as the defining S/A song. (Er, even though Asuka wasn't actually in a coma.)

Well there's a lot of ways to look at their relationship depending on your perspective. Looking at it from where it was around the end of the series, that video plays up the love-hate aspect of their relationship quite well, at least on Shinji's part. Also, it does wonders for my dark sense of humor. Girlfriend in a Coma works, probably more so, but I have not looked for a video on it. The reason I linked above was that there was a video aid.

I don't really watch AMVs too often, so it may exist. I have no idea, though.

Mr. Tines wrote:

Sailor Star Dust wrote:Avery: How do you get those little music symbols, heart marks and various other things from the keyboard?

With default HTML enabled in your post
Go here: http://www.unicode.org/charts/symbols.html
In particular, here: http://www.unicode.org/charts/symbols.html

Then you get the symbol by putting ampersand-hash-number of symbol-semicolon where the (hex) number is column followed by row, so 266A for one of the musical notes. Convert the hex number using Calculator to get 266A(hex) = 9834 -- like this ♪

Good stuff!

♒ ♓ ♔ ♕ ♖ ♗ ♘ ♙ ♚ ♛ ♜ ♝ ♞ ♟ ♠ ♡ ♢ ♣ ♤ ♥ ♦ ♧ ♨ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♭ ♮ ♯

Best part about the ending is that it's open-ended on whether or not they make it, making it ripe for theories either fascinating to read, or hilarious in their overanalysis.

Because of that open-endness, I've been able to see it with a optimistic light as two teens who've been through hell and back ready to brave this world; either in a relationship or just as friends.

I've always thought that it was pretty obvious Shinji had a schoolboy crush on Asuka, but isn't really "in love" with her. He goes to her last when there is no one else left for him and she calls him out on it in the pre-3I kitchen scene.He really let her down during the descant arc, and doesn't seem to really feel all that bad till after Kaworu, when, as mention before, she becomes that last person he can turn to. Ultimately just teenage hormones and some common baggage with eva/parent problems. As for Asuka's feelings for Shinji, well its hard to say, the line bewteen hate and love might be mixed for her. Ultimately I got the vibe that Asuka loves the idea of Shinji liking her, but doesn't really love or even like Shinji that much. Sorry SxA shippers, but I'm pretty skeptical of their relationship, although they probably would have to deal with these problems with almost anyone, it just seems like with each other there problems grow of each other and make it worse.

He's infatuated and attracted by her; it isn't love...yet. He may think he is, but he's deluding himself. I know this from experience. His connection with Asuka is nowhere near personal and intimate enough to justify throwing out the L word to accurately describe it.

The two are also interested in finding out if there is a connection to keep the Hedgehog's Dilemna from torturing them...but of course, it'll never stop.


I would also like to add on to the kissing scene in saying that it was a fantastic decision for Asuka to bring up the death of his mother as a target of his scared nature. It was not at all right, but it shows the constant mixed signals these two keep sending/forcing to each other, with it being Asuka's second desperate attempt to find connection, the first being badly acting like a pervert is attacking her in school in the very beginning of the episode while calling Kaji.

Canon answer: He's fourteen, she's hot and has exotic features, is hard to get, and they're forced into close proximity. Some feeling of attraction from her to him and vice versa is natural but if they were just in a class together or something in a normal setting she'd never give him the time of day and he'd probably jerk off to her but never feel anything more than a sexual attraction he never acts on.

The Truth of Chuckman: They are destined star-crossed lovers and if you seek to refute me I will marshal my eldritch might and send dooms against you.

Chuckman wrote:Canon answer: He's fourteen, she's hot and has exotic features, is hard to get, and they're forced into close proximity. Some feeling of attraction from her to him and vice versa is natural but if they were just in a class together or something in a normal setting she'd never give him the time of day and he'd probably jerk off to her but never feel anything more than a sexual attraction he never acts on.

The Truth of Chuckman: They are destined star-crossed lovers and if you seek to refute me I will marshal my eldritch might and send dooms against you.

Never underestimate the joining forces of fan theory and fan fiction.

I don't know, was the term hassliebe brought up yet. I don't know, if I'm using it right...

It's pretty much obvious to me that at the beginning of series Shinji likes everybody by default and thus he expects to be liked in return, but all he gets is: "due to the present state of emergency, all phone lines have been disabled". So he gradually turns his heart into hatred against the whole world and all people, with Asuka being no special case in this regard. And that's because, for Heavens sake, he's son of Gendo Himself, so I expect him to inherit some traits and at least subconscious desires of this crafty asshole, even though he (Shinji) is clueless about his own psyche as much as he's clueless about all the other people he bumps to. His wish is to reign, but he has no tools to build his own domain in the realm of Emperor. Assuming this, he may even choose Asuka as queen of his little world, but with strong, silent undertone that I am the player, not a pawn; so guess my will and obey. And when she doesn't... duh.

Speaking of Asuka, I think all she likes about Shinji is banter.

Shinji is no Ruling King. He dreams of everyone accepting him unconditionally, a mother's idealized love. He doesn't understand that he has to work for it, and, honestly, for all he goes through... he's a bit of a piece of shit. Being a piece of shit who goes through a conga line of trauma doesn't make you any less a piece of shit.

I would not say that Shinji likes everybody by default. After his mother died, he got abandoned by his father to live with a seemingly unloving teacher. I would assume that he doesn't like people automatically, but moreso puts up with them as an additional factor of living. His feelings are more complex than simple hatred, and I wouldn't say that he pins it on Asuka (or most people, anyway, save for himself). I wouldn't say he hates his father either, but he secretly desires his praise and affection (as exemplified after the battle with Sahaquiel).

In terms of him being his father's son, I interpreted it as he and Gendo were/are a lot alike, they just took different paths in life. Gendo had a hard life, full of fighting and angst, that much has been certain. He found love (Yui), and doesn't want that love to leave him, because it only causes him pain. Shinji unintentionally took a bit of that love when he was born, and when Yui 'died' in the contact experiment, Gendo would have done anything to get her back (3rd Impact to be reunited). Shinji (like Gendo) craves affection, and in 2.0, he went to great lengths for Ayanami because he cared about her. Supposing that by some mystical power *COUGHCOUGHfanfictionCOUGHCOUGH* that Asuka had been the one to show him affection, I'd say that he would have done the same for her.

Shinji also doesn't want to rule, especially not as some emperor. He wants to be unnoticed, not the center of attention (which he ends up being just because he's the most important Eva pilot).

Oh, and Asuka likes Shinji more than just the banter. There's some degree of attraction that she holds for Shinji, being that he is a naturally-skilled Eva pilot that she wants to prove herself to or that he might have a nice butt or something. It's pretty obvious that they like each other in some sense, but thanks to the mess of miscommunication and misunderstandings, it doesn't go anywhere in the traditional sense. Maybe in EoE, but I leave that to interpretation as well.

That being said, headcanon = SxA. Fight me.

Chuckman – you're right to the point and this point is strangulation scene during the Instrumentality. If he was only a piece of shit, he would crawl politely out of the room and cry out his suffering in Pen-Pen's wing. But he didn't. He, maybe for the first (and I think the only) moment in the series took the stance of "I demand", and because his demand wasn't fulfilled, he proceeded further to "I punish you". I can agree this is not a Rulling King's script, especially in the way he expressed his demand, but I'm not an expert in Japanese history nor literature, so I don't know what kind of archetype did he match in this scene (his own, maybe?). I only want to stress that he recognized the right to kill the one who opposes him, what is rather a prerogative of person in power.

Yeah, I know this is a stretch. I just like the kiddo.

RadicalRandy, I just thought that Shinji goes through some evolution during the series, but I admit I'd have to carefully rewatch the show to get some arguments (dis)proving that. After all, we're talking of people who are raised to conform and communicate their needs through nonverbal channel rather than by dropping their masks and speaking openly as individuals they are.

Does Shinji want to be unnoticed? But of course; he doesn't want to be a celebrity of any sort, as this role overwhelms him (remember the scene in the class room, "Are you the pilot Y/N?"). He could be, taking his insecurities aside, that kind of personality who drives the car from the backseat, pulling all the strings while keeping himself in the shadow. Actually he's put in perfect place to learn how to do that, full of people he could copy from this or that, but he... sometimes I think he simply lacks the idea of learning through observation and immitation.

Rebuild is a different kind of story, as it seems this version of Shinji is kinda more mature in a sense of "something depends on me, so I'll act". In TV series he behaves much like "nothing depends on me, so push me to act". Thus he ends in SxA pairing not because he chose so, but simply because Asuka was the strongest (even though flawed) female personality around him. In Rebuild he chooses Rei on his own volition. This said, I wouldn't even be surprised if 4.0 ended with Shinji x Midori.

ErgoProxy wrote:Does Shinji want to be unnoticed? But of course; he doesn't want to be a celebrity of any sort, as this role overwhelms him (remember the scene in the class room, "Are you the pilot Y/N?"). He could be, taking his insecurities aside, that kind of personality who drives the car from the backseat, pulling all the strings while keeping himself in the shadow.

But, in a similar personality of Asuka (And pulling this thread back to it's original topic), I get a sense that he loves getting the praise, but not as much as Asuka. I could see Asuka looking at Shinji as both a half-reflection of herself or what she wants to be.

Sorry for derailing. I'm just a simple Pollack without proper rigour and habits.

Anyway. I think Shinji doesn't really love getting the praise; he rather needs this as guidelines, where is his place on Earth and where he will be accepted by people around him. He is, after all, afraid of human hatred. Asuka... yeah, deep down she's just an ordinary child with problems, who searches for some solid ground, whether it would be Kaji, or Kyoko, or some other personality stronger than herself. But she's a hedgehog with long spikes.

I think they're like coins, flipped in opposite ways, and they keep arguing, who should flip to match the other. This might be indeed some plane they could meet on and like each other – if they both like to quarrel. But this is hardly any way to go through long-term relationship, so someone has to flip, and the problem with Shinji is that he constantly says NO, BECAUSE NO – even during the Instrumentality, when they both know each other's secret secrets, and, at least according to my heavy fanwanking, it is obvious that the boy has potential to become pure gold.