Vampire Killer wrote:I want to see some angels that are completely new and original.

ew.

I had an excellent session of fanwankage the other night and created this model for the Rebuild versions:

You Are (Not) Alone: 1 - 6
Sachiel
Ramiel

Rush : 7 - 18
Gaghiel (shorter scene from manga)
Bardiel
Zeruel

Breaking Up: 19 - 23
Arael
Armisael

Final: 24 - End of Evangelion
Tabris
Who the hell knows?

I agree, basically the only Angels you NEED are Sachiel, Ramiel, Gaghiel, Bardiel, Zeruel, Arael, Armisael, Tabris

whicher ever ones are important to a healthy Rei/Shinji relationship. And yes, I finally changed to R/S

V wrote:I agree, basically the only Angels you NEED are Sachiel, Ramiel, Gaghiel, Bardiel, Zeruel, Arael, Armisael, Tabris

Hold on, let me reason this out.
Sachiel- Kootchie koo!
Ramiel- Most powerful angel. 'Nuff said.
Gaghiel-Graaaaaaaaah! Chomp!
Bardiel-Uh, oh...
Zeruel-HULK SMASH!
Arael-Look who's peeking into your head!
Armisael-Darling, don't you wanna be with me?
Tabris-*Watches girls faint*

Why isn't Shamshel there? Shinji's bousou behavior in the Shamshel battle and Misato's consequent anger at his disobedience drove him to run off...or will the whole running off bit happen after the battle with Sachiel? Or will it happen at all?

Ramiel and Gaghiel have their places booked all right, but you're forgetting someone in the huge gap between Gaghiel(6th) and Bardiel(13th). Where's Leliel(The 12th angel, the shadow/sphere form), who sucked Shinji in, and inside whom Shinji met his mom the first time and went through that huge introspective journey? Leliel is essential!

Other than these two, I agree with the rest of the omissions on your list...they don't really matter.

UrsusArctos wrote:Why isn't Shamshel there? Shinji's bousou behavior in the Shamshel battle and Misato's consequent anger at his disobedience drove him to run off...or will the whole running off bit happen after the battle with Sachiel? Or will it happen at all?

I don't think Shamshel is vital. There will be a few things that will have to be changed, (Shinji running away like you mentioned) like Toji's acceptance of Shinji. There are a number of ways to solve that without Shamshel.

Where's Leliel(The 12th angel, the shadow/sphere form), who sucked Shinji in, and inside whom Shinji met his mom the first time and went through that huge introspective journey? Leliel is essential!

Other than these two, I agree with the rest of the omissions on your list...they don't really matter.

I've always thought that Liliel is the coolest looking angel and would be even more cool as part of the movie, but that fight just doesn't mark a significant change in the plot. You could make an argument in favor of just about any angel (except Iruel), but it does look like a number of them will have to be cut from the movie. The rebuild series will be around 4 hours long, and 15 angels (I'm not including Lillith and Adam in this) is way too much, enough to ruin the movies. I think the list I made may even be too liberal.

UrsusArctos wrote:Leliel is essential!

Sadamoto didn't think so.

Ayana-Me wrote:There will be a few things that will have to be changed, (Shinji running away like you mentioned) like Toji's acceptance of Shinji. There are a number of ways to solve that without Shamshel.

E.g., Toji's sister could just not just injured, or something.

The rebuild series will be around 4 hours long, and 15 angels (I'm not including Lillith and Adam in this) is way too much, enough to ruin the movies. I think the list I made may even be too liberal.

We could just have a whole bunch attack en masse at the end. Kind of like in GOS2, except they don't go down with a single hit.

Rei-chan wrote:We could just have a whole bunch attack en masse at the end. Kind of like in GOS2, except they don't go down with a single hit.

And a LOT less cheesier too, hopefully. (Thankfully, the GoS2 manga was better in that respect, IMO.)

That would be pretty sweet to have a mass Angel attack kinda like what the original scenario (long before the days of EoE having been what's now EoTV)intended. Y'know, them attacking and then afterwards SEELE/NERV deciding to give up the Instrumentality Project to find the Promise Land, Aruka or whatever the hell it was. I really wish I had that informative ANF link to that original scenario idea...it would help so I could remember it correctly. The more I think about it, the more I'd like to see Rebuild being Anno's original original vision, provided there's "still a happy ending and all the mysteries are solved". (At least we get those conditions together in EoTV and EoE! ; )

That Angel list looks pretty good to me. So I guess this means that Rebuild will be similar to the Manga in the sense that neither has 18 Angels like the anime does?

Yay my first post 8)

While Sadamoto may not have put Leliel in, the battle against the 12th angel is quite possibly the most pivotal point in Evangelion.
And from a purely dramatic standpoint, Leliel's death was, without a doubt, very cool. I mean when Yui-sama popped her head out...very memorable.
:twisted:

Attempting to redirect the conversation from here.

Things would work just as well with Lilith having a higher slot. Lilim are #18, after all, and we're the Angels we've known about the longest.

Lleonard Pler wrote:Or Adam and Lillith are the same entity (hermaphrodite).

Good heathens, I hope not.

I don't see how they can add a mouth to Shamshel while keeping its fallic shape.

That thin, pointy, teardrop-shaped head wasn't enough to disrupt any "phallic" imagery before?

So, from what Reichu said in the trailer thread about the angels, the first film will have Sachiel, Shamshel, and Ramiel. Down below are the angels I think they will have and why:

Gaghiel: Instrumental in showing Asuka's character.

Israfel: Building up the Asuka/Shinji relationship (may it be friends or lovers).

Matarael: Another build up of the A/S relationship and Asuka's character.

Sahaquiel (maybe): Developed Mistao's character, so if Matarael doesn't appear, this angel could take it's place.

I can't imagine that Sandalphon wil appear since the episode he appeared in was pointless.

Avatar of Dreams wrote:While Sadamoto may not have put Leliel in, the battle against the 12th angel is quite possibly the most pivotal point in Evangelion.
And from a purely dramatic standpoint, Leliel's death was, without a doubt, very cool. I mean when Yui-sama popped her head out...very memorable.
:twisted:

I agree on both counts!

All angels from Israfel to Ireul were actually quite disposable(Although I like Ireul, the only angel that the Evas really couldn't fight). I think Sadamoto put the 'mother' scene all the way up front in the Sachiel battle instead, and made a few other changes to cut Leliel out.

No matter what Sadamoto thinks, I think it's a good idea to include Leliel. Look at the conversation SEELE has with Misato, who's standing in for Shinji(Episode 17). The committee members are serious about the possibility that Leliel tried to contact Shinji. They're also worried about what that means for the thirteenth angel (Who, of course, hijacked and mutated Eva-03). "The angels are getting smarter." If Ireul hadn't turned up before Leliel, that statement really be ironic.

As an aside, notice that Zeruel comes charging in barely 24 hours after Bardiel. If the transporting aircraft hadn't flown through that cloud formation, what do you think would've happened? Bardiel might've come in and hijacked one of the Evas at the same time Zeruel turned up. Add the most violently destructive angel to a hijacked Eva, what do you get? Absolute mayhem! (Of course, after thrashing and blowing up everything, finding that Lilith, not Adam, is inside Terminal Dogma, would come as a horrid surprise :twisted: ).

Seriously, don't you think it'd be cool to see what'd happen if two angels attacked at once? The only thing of that sort we've seen is the Israfel twins...give us a twin-angel attack! Or a triple-angel attack (Zeruel blasting and slicing away, Bardiel hijacking an Eva and jumping in, Ireul sneaking in and attacking the Magi!) WOOOOOOWWWEEEEEE!!! :twisted:

We've seen what happense when one Eva fights multiple Evas, but multiple Evas fighting multiple Evas would be quite interesting...

I'd like to see something like the scene in Peter Jackson's King Kong in which Kong fights three Vastatosaurs. That was probably the best fight scene I've ever seen in anything.

NAveryW wrote:We've seen what happense when one Eva fights multiple Evas, but multiple Evas fighting multiple Evas would be quite interesting...

I called dibs on that one already.

I just saw the trailer on youtube. Image quality sucked...but my God...

Sachiel was the same as ever, we get a nice view of the second mask being pushed out of his body.

Shamshel's smaller 'arms' move about now...he's got a freakish, skeletal appearance in mid-torso.

Ramiel seems bigger than ever, and a whole lot more frightening! Wow!

My best bet is it'll be kept to three angels maximum a movie.

So Movie 1 is set up.

Movie 2 Angels-
I think it really all depends on where Anno is taking Asuka. If these movies really are only 90 minutes long then there's gonna be a lot to bounce about. Not to mention this NEW CHARACTER.
My best bet is GAGHIEL will stick around mainly because the battle at sea is the one that offers the best chances of CINEMATIC GREATNESS. Then it depends, are the movies Shinji/Rei centric, or Asuka/Shinji centric (or worse- Kaworu/Shinji centric).
If the plot point sticks around I think Movie 2 would end with BARDIEL and Toji dying. (Hell I thinkToji might be given a large part just to make his death meaningful).

Movie 3- Who knows? Zeurel probably for wickedness. I think the Mind-Rape Angels will go. I just don't think everyone should make a wishlist that includes all the angels.

if the movies are only 90 minutes (which I'm kinda doubting...I'm thinking more 110 minutes each really) then there's a lot of characters, exposition, and what not to juggle. Some things are clearly being pushed aside (I fear for poor Ritsuko becoming a cameo) so it'll be tough to make any kind of emotional connection if there's an Angel battle every 10 minutes.

...but thten again I've said the same thing about Gurren-Lagann and that has a battle every 2 seconds.

P.S. Looking at those pics, is anyone thinking the movie might be done in Anamorphic Widescreen?